Pay day for Messier

[quoipourquoi]

so your argument was that Messier's value was that he made the team so very shitty, so very quickly that we got a good draft pick?
that he valiantly led them to the bottom of the standings in record time? aaaalrighty then.

when I see you post about messier, it all gets filtered down to :bj:

Since when does trading declining players like Trevor Linden for developing players like Todd Bertuzzi qualify as making the team "so very shitty"? Yeah, Todd Bertuzzi wasn't at Linden's level at the time and yes, it had an effect on Vancouver's record, but Bertuzzi damn sure surpassed Linden's level two years later as they had expected when they made the deal. That's what rebuilding is all about; trading last decade's stars for younger talents that may become the next decade's stars. It's a rebuild; there's no immediate payoff.

But no, it's all Mark Messier and Mike Keenan's fault for coming in and seeing the writing on the wall, resulting in some new faces in exchange for the 1994 war heroes that had done fuck-all since then. It's all Mark Messier and Mike Keenan's fault that Pavel Bure wanted out in 1998-99 even though Pavel Bure fucking loved both of them and has since publicly blamed the organization as a whole for dicking him around since 1993.

So, yeah, maybe sticking with Linden, Mogilny, Odjick, and McLean would've been the right move, because hoping that things will turn around naturally has worked so well for the Calgary Flames lately. By the time the Flames pull the trigger on a complete rebuild, they're not going to be able to move their best parts for something as good as next decade's Todd Bertuzzi.

Messier turned this team into a shitshow yes Trevor was declining but the way they stripped him of his captaincy was embarrasing for someone like him it was plain wrong on every level there is nothing to be proud about in his years. Yes we got the sedins but we almost lost our team. Messier was 100% at fault for the implosion

Trevor Linden wasn't stripped of his captaincy; he offered it to Messier, and Messier accepted.

"I was monitoring the situation and was waiting to see what felt right. And it just felt right. Now I'll be apprenticing under one of the best leaders in professional sport."

And Vancouver didn't "almost lose" the club during the time Messier was on contract. This arbitration establishes that the value of the franchise increased. You can't say he was "100% at fault" for all of the changes without acknowledging that the team was healthier on the ascension in 1999-2000 than it was on the decline in 1996-97.

Either shrug your shoulders and say, "Oh, well, we overpaid a guy prior to the salary cap. This is our Chris Gratton," and move on - or recognize that Vancouver was better for the face-lift.

 

[mattola]

Trevor was a teammate he was professional dealing with it have you heard his recent interviews on it? He found out about it on the radio

 

[mattola]

You have quite the strong defense mechanism for messier I see. Maybe you didn't live here during his time saw his treatment of the media the fans and teammates fuck him.

 

[quoipourquoi]

He found out about it on the radio

He overheard some disc-jockey discussing whether or not he should do it on the radio. The choice was his.

Here's the full-quote:


Linden claimed the decision to hand over the 'C' was his and his alone. "I didn't know what I was going to do and I didn't want to make a quick decision," Linden explained. "I wanted to see how it played out. You know, the day I was driving from Whistler to go to the [Messier signing] announcement I turned on the radio in my car and the first thing I heard was 'would Messier be captain?' "I was monitoring the situation and was waiting to see what felt right. And it just felt right. Now I'll be apprenticing under one of the best leaders in professional sport."

Sixteen defining moments in Trevor Linden's career

 

[mattola]

He overheard some disc-jockey discussing whether or not he should do it on the radio. The choice was his.

Here's the full-quote:


Linden claimed the decision to hand over the 'C' was his and his alone. "I didn't know what I was going to do and I didn't want to make a quick decision," Linden explained. "I wanted to see how it played out. You know, the day I was driving from Whistler to go to the [Messier signing] announcement I turned on the radio in my car and the first thing I heard was 'would Messier be captain?' "I was monitoring the situation and was waiting to see what felt right. And it just felt right. Now I'll be apprenticing under one of the best leaders in professional sport."

Sixteen defining moments in Trevor Linden's career

Was that written in 2008? The interview I heard was a few months ago he did not like messier at all. Him losing the C was not by choice. IMO he had no choice but to relinquish and be pro

Anyways I have no desire to justify my hate on messier it's warranted and wi always be I was here for those years. Fuck Dallas and fuck messier

 

[dash]

So, yeah, maybe sticking with Linden, Mogilny, Odjick, and McLean would've been the right move, because hoping that things will turn around naturally has worked so well for the Calgary Flames lately. By the time the Flames pull the trigger on a complete rebuild, they're not going to be able to move their best parts for something as good as next decade's Todd Bertuzzi.

I take umbrage with the above paragraph because it's not as if the Flames have stood pat with the same lineup since 2004 (only Iggy and Kipper remain from that team). Iggy has a NTC and management has said several teams that they won't go to him to ask him to waive it. As far as Kipper is concerned, he will likely be moved at the trade deadline this season if the Flames are struggling. Of course, all the armchair GM's keep bleating that it's not a complete re-build until Iggy and Kipper are moved (well, don't hold your breath cause it isn't likely to happen).

Pittsburgh was lucky and got Malkin and Crosby in back-to-back drafts, those types of generational talents don't come along every day). Chicago plucked Toews and Kane, but also found a couple of diamonds with Seabrook and Keith. Then we have teams like the Islanders, Panthers, Blue Jackets, and Oilers. On the re-building treadmill, but not really going anywhere fast.

Now don't get me wrong, the draft is still the most important part of building your team and the Flames (especially when Darryl Sutter was GM) have not drafted well. It looks like things are improving under Feaster, but only time will tell.

 

[DevilishWon]

Ah, yes, the dark years that saw the Canucks do a quick two-year rebuild in which they drafted both Sedins and turned old parts like Linden and Mogilny into the West Coast Express. That team was a Sean Burke away from legitimately competing; the only "dark" thing about that rebuild was that they bet on Garth Snow.

Seriously, does Vancouver not realize how fortunate it was to turn its 1996-97 roster into its 1999-2000 roster at the sacrifice of two seasons in which they wouldn't have been competitive anyway? The Canucks could've brought in Sakic and Fedorov that Summer instead of Messier to play alongside Linden and the boys, and it still wouldn't have made a lick of difference because Kirk McLean blew more goats in the mid-to-late 90s than Roberto Luongo could ever dream of.


/obligatorypromessierrant

Old parts like Mogilny who scored 43 for the Devils the next year and was an integral part of a CUP championship that still eludes the nucks? Yes they should be forever grateful for the cups Brendan Morrison & Denis Pederson led them to.

 

[mattola]

Old parts like Mogilny who scored 43 for the Devils the next year and was an integral part of a CUP championship that still eludes the nucks? Yes they should be forever grateful for the cups Brendan Morrison & Denis Pederson led them to.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

It smells like a Canucks gangbang in here.

 

[DevilishWon]

It smells like a Canucks gangbang in here.

That's the stench of futility....

 

[DevilishWon]

Sorry my friend...rough day at work...gotta take it out on someone and I like my dog to much to kick him!

 

[mattola]

Sorry my friend...rough day at work...gotta take it out on someone and I like my dog to much to kick him!

well Im glad you didnt kick your dog .... Im a canucks fan I can take the kick. have been for 41 years

 

[DevilishWon]

well Im glad you didnt kick your dog .... Im a canucks fan I can take the kick. have been for 41 years

I (almost) feel your pain. While my Devils have had a lot of success I an also a long suffering Mets & Jets (long time season ticket holder) fan. They tell me losig builds character...I think I got enough!

 

[quoipourquoi]

Old parts like Mogilny who scored 43 for the Devils the next year and was an integral part of a CUP championship that still eludes the nucks? Yes they should be forever grateful for the cups Brendan Morrison & Denis Pederson led them to.

Yes, the Devils had Mogilny for a whole 87 games before his contract expired and he fucking left. You realize that Brendan Morrison centered the best line in hockey from 2001-2004, never missing a game, right? It was a great deal for the Canucks, too.

And not that it matters, but calling Mogilny's 7 points in 23 games in the 2000 playoffs an "integral part" of that Stanley Cup is a goddamn joke, dude.

 

[Eddie_Shack]

Yes, the Devils had Mogilny for a whole 87 games before his contract expired and he fucking left. You realize that Brendan Morrison centered the best line in hockey from 2001-2004, never missing a game, right? It was a great deal for the Canucks, too.

And not that it matters, but calling Mogilny's 7 points in 23 games in the 2000 playoffs an "integral part" of that Stanley Cup is a goddamn joke, dude.

Are you Gary Coleman?

 

[Vadered]

Are you Gary Coleman?

[YOUTUBE]Qw9oX-kZ_9k[/YOUTUBE]

 

[DevilishWon]

Yes, the Devils had Mogilny for a whole 87 games before his contract expired and he fucking left. You realize that Brendan Morrison centered the best line in hockey from 2001-2004, never missing a game, right? It was a great deal for the Canucks, too.

And not that it matters, but calling Mogilny's 7 points in 23 games in the 2000 playoffs an "integral part" of that Stanley Cup is a goddamn joke, dude.

The goddamn joke is the "best line in hockey" won jack shit...dude

 

[mattola]

lol since no one started a Mark MEssier Leadership award thread (lol I fucking hate this award its so god damn arrogant)

Daniel Alfredsson wins Mark Messier Leadership award.