OT: Pure Steelers Hatred Blog

[evolver115]

Unrelated to the debate, I misread what you wrote and thought you said "closet-version" of Dan Marino, to which my mind went "what does that even mean?' Hahaha.

Then I got to the next sentence and did a double-take on "threw."

LOL. Your post messed with my mind!!

LOL my bad

 

[elocomotive]

LOL my bad

No, not trying to be the grammar police. It was just funny in the context of totally misreading a word before it. Especially since the subject was about quarterbacks, I completely thought my mind had red it wrong again. You wrote the wrong word, but unlike me, at least you can read!

Hahaha.

 

[evolver115]

No, not trying to be the grammar police. It was just funny in the context of totally misreading a word before it. Especially since the subject was about quarterbacks, I completely thought my mind had red it wrong again. You wrote the wrong word, but unlike me, at least you can read!

Hahaha.

I think what threw me off was I was talking about throwing the football.

 

[elocomotive]

I think what threw me off was I was talking about throwing the football.

We'll give you a pass just this once.

 

[Slimpikins]

Sorry bud, never pissed on anyone's leg. And, i never claimed Ben to be elite. I actually said he wasn't.

My simple point is that even the "elite" QB's in the NFL over the past ten years or so had to have a solid to dominant defense to win titles. That's all I'm saying.

In Manning's lone title season, he had abysmal post-season passing numbers. Manning is this era's closest version of Dan Marino. His ability to dominate threw the air is devastating. But, not all that different from Marino, his clutch ability in big games isn't very good.

What got me posting in this thread in the first place were two comments. One that with a win in the Superbowl that Rothlisberger would be one of the all time great qb's and the other was that Manning could not replicate Ben's success if he were the qb of the Steelers. I thought they were both completely false.

I agree with every thing you posted above.

 

[SLY]

Ben is a different breed, he doesnt bitch like other quarterbacks. He still has that grit that the NFL has lost over the years, and for that I put him into a completely different class. And definitely one of the greats of the millenium fo sho.

 

[evolver115]

What got me posting in this thread in the first place were two comments. One that with a win in the Superbowl that Rothlisberger would be one of the all time great qb's and the other was that Manning could not replicate Ben's success if he were the qb of the Steelers. I thought they were both completely false.

I agree with every thing you posted above.

I certainly don't disagree with your opinions about those two points. Winning a Super Bowl is a team effort. Like I tried to illustrate with my posts, any team that has both a dominant defense and good QB makes them a formidable opponent. In rare cases, having a dominant defense completely overrides a competent offense (Baltimore 2000).

However, I do have to say this about Roethlisberger. He's clutch. His ability to make plays when the team is in absolutely dire situations is uncanny. I have watched the Steelers with more than just a casual interest since the early 80's... I was knee high to a grass hopper in the seventies, so the Super Steelers aren't something I have first hand observations of.

Noll(post TB) and Cowher both had the same deficiency.... no clutch QB. They both managed to put together Super Bowl caliber defenses, but the one element of their roster that was always missing was a clutch passer. Cowher had season after season of dominant defenses, yet he was screwing around with qb's like O'Donnell, Stewart, Maddox etc. Once Bill had that key ingredient on offense, he put together a 15-1 season in Ben's rookie season, and followed it up with his first and only SB title.

Ben Roethlisberger will never be confused with guys like Brady and P. Manning. Those two remind me more of guys like Montana and Marino. The player Roethlisberger most reminds me of from NFL history is John Elway. John had that same uncanny ability to make plays at crucial moments.

If Ben is lucky enough to win another Super Bowl, whether you want to admit it or not, he's likely on his way to a very memorable career, and.. warranted or not, a very likely nomination to Canton when that time comes. QB's with three Super Bowl Titles don't got overlooked in that situation.

 

[Slimpikins]

I certainly don't disagree with your opinions about those two points. Winning a Super Bowl is a team effort. Like I tried to illustrate with my posts, any team that has both a dominant defense and good QB makes them a formidable opponent. In rare cases, having a dominant defense completely overrides a competent offense (Baltimore 2000).

However, I do have to say this about Roethlisberger. He's clutch. His ability to make plays when the team is in absolutely dire situations is uncanny. I have watched the Steelers with more than just a casual interest since the early 80's... I was knee high to a grass hopper in the seventies, so the Super Steelers aren't something I have first hand observations of.

Noll(post TB) and Cowher both had the same deficiency.... no clutch QB. They both managed to put together Super Bowl caliber defenses, but the one element of their roster that was always missing was a clutch passer. Cowher had season after season of dominant defenses, yet he was screwing around with qb's like O'Donnell, Stewart, Maddox etc. Once Bill had that key ingredient on offense, he put together a 15-1 season in Ben's rookie season, and followed it up with his first and only SB title.

Ben Roethlisberger will never be confused with guys like Brady and P. Manning. Those two remind me more of guys like Montana and Marino. The player Roethlisberger most reminds me of from NFL history is John Elway. John had that same uncanny ability to make plays at crucial moments.

If Ben is lucky enough to win another Super Bowl, whether you want to admit it or not, he's likely on his way to a very memorable career, and.. warranted or not, a very likely nomination to Canton when that time comes. QB's with three Super Bowl Titles don't got overlooked in that situation.

I agree with most of what you put but:

-Elway was much more accurate and threw more often than Rothlisberger (but I do see your comparison otherwise).

-Getting into Canton and being one of the best ever are two different things. There are several very good qb's in the hall of fame and the very best of those qb's are considered the greatest of all time. Rothlisberger has a long way to go to get into that conversation, if he can ever get into that conversation.

If Ben goes on to win seven superbowls then of course he is in the conversation regardless of statistics but let's not count our chickens before they hatch.

 

[evolver115]

[/B]

I agree with most of what you put but:

-Elway was much more accurate and threw more often than Rothlisberger (but I do see your comparison otherwise).

-Getting into Canton and being one of the best ever are two different things. There are several very good qb's in the hall of fame and the very best of those qb's are considered the greatest of all time. Rothlisberger has a long way to go to get into that conversation, if he can ever get into that conversation.

If Ben goes on to win seven superbowls then of course he is in the conversation regardless of statistics but let's not count our chickens before they hatch.

Be careful with that assumption. This is a common misconception that Ben still relies on a heavy rush attack. Since his first two years in the league, Ben has averaged at least 400 attempts per season, and as recently as last year, he had over 500. This season he was at 389 due to his 4 game suspension. I suspect that his attempts number will remain around 500, or more for the next few foreseeable seasons. If you look back over Elway's career numbers, he had very similar numbers compared to Roethlisberger.

Speaking on accuracy, Ben currently has a career 63.1% completion percentage, to go along with a 5.1 to 3.1 TD to INT %. Ben also has a 92.5 QB rating. Elway had a career completion percentage of 56.9%, with a 4.1 to 3.1 TD to INT %. John also had a 79.9 QB rating.

And like I said before, if Ben is lucky enough to get a 3rd SB title, his career is going to look very, very impressive. HOF discussion, obviously is a long ways away for him. But, he's in the prime of his career at 28.

 

[SJ20]

I worked with developementally disabled people for five years and I have experienced it in my own family so you can get off of your high horse. It's a joke and the disabled do still have a sense of humor.

Well, it wasn't funny.

 

[pixburgher66]

I was in no way trying to dub Ben as one of the greats. That's wrong on mutliple levels: One, his career isn't over and two, he's not the best in the game today, so clearly not in the naming for best ever. My point was merely this: his talent and ability to be clutch when needed should warrant that he at least be considered amongst the top QBs in the game today. I'm not saying he's a better pure player than Manning or Brady, because he's not even in the same breed, but merely saying that his name should occasionally pop up when discussing the upper echelon of players, because save for a few teams, I guarantee you people would want him on their team. And I think he's better than Brees personally. I love Brees, don't get me wrong, but he's had one good postseason (where his D and Brett Favre helped him along ) in the midst of many "eh," ones. Bree's wasn't even part of the conversation until he won the SB.

 

[SLY]

I was in no way trying to dub Ben as one of the greats. That's wrong on mutliple levels: One, his career isn't over and two, he's not the best in the game today, so clearly not in the naming for best ever. My point was merely this: his talent and ability to be clutch when needed should warrant that he at least be considered amongst the top QBs in the game today. I'm not saying he's a better pure player than Manning or Brady, because he's not even in the same breed, but merely saying that his name should occasionally pop up when discussing the upper echelon of players, because save for a few teams, I guarantee you people would want him on their team. And I think he's better than Brees personally. I love Brees, don't get me wrong, but he's had one good postseason (where his D and Brett Favre helped him along ) in the midst of many "eh," ones. Bree's wasn't even part of the conversation until he won the SB.

Theres no question.

 

[Slimpikins]

Be careful with that assumption. This is a common misconception that Ben still relies on a heavy rush attack. Since his first two years in the league, Ben has averaged at least 400 attempts per season, and as recently as last year, he had over 500. This season he was at 389 due to his 4 game suspension. I suspect that his attempts number will remain around 500, or more for the next few foreseeable seasons. If you look back over Elway's career numbers, he had very similar numbers compared to Roethlisberger.

Speaking on accuracy, Ben currently has a career 63.1% completion percentage, to go along with a 5.1 to 3.1 TD to INT %. Ben also has a 92.5 QB rating. Elway had a career completion percentage of 56.9%, with a 4.1 to 3.1 TD to INT %. John also had a 79.9 QB rating.

And like I said before, if Ben is lucky enough to get a 3rd SB title, his career is going to look very, very impressive. HOF discussion, obviously is a long ways away for him. But, he's in the prime of his career at 28.

I was assuming a lot there with Elway, I didn't check any of his stats. I had a feeling that it wasn't correct, Elway's best years came when he also had a very potent rushing attack.

Side note, I have a feeling that Rodgers is going to have his hands full with the Steelers D. Their secondary is much better than what he has faced on the NFC side so far and the down linemen can pressure. And while the Packers D is no joke if Pit could handle the Jets and the Ravens, they can handle anything the Packers throw at them.

 

[pixburgher66]

I was assuming a lot there with Elway, I didn't check any of his stats. I had a feeling that it wasn't correct, Elway's best years came when he also had a very potent rushing attack.

Side note, I have a feeling that Rodgers is going to have his hands full with the Steelers D. Their secondary is much better than what he has faced on the NFC side so far and the down linemen can pressure. And while the Packers D is no joke if Pit could handle the Jets and the Ravens, they can handle anything the Packers throw at them.

That's the aspect I'm worried about The Pack have a great O-line, it's given Rodgers time in the pocket so that even when coverage is great down field, he has the chance to run it. I'm pretty confident however, because our rush D will only get better, since it appears Aaron Smith will be back. That and an even more healthy Troy.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I was assuming a lot there with Elway, I didn't check any of his stats. I had a feeling that it wasn't correct, Elway's best years came when he also had a very potent rushing attack.

Side note, I have a feeling that Rodgers is going to have his hands full with the Steelers D. Their secondary is much better than what he has faced on the NFC side so far and the down linemen can pressure. And while the Packers D is no joke if Pit could handle the Jets and the Ravens, they can handle anything the Packers throw at them.

Though Pitt's O-line has taken a beating these last two weeks. Obviously they get that extra week off, but with some injuries up front, that could really open the door for the Packers D.

The Packers D is pretty much even with (as in slightly ahead in some, slightly behind in others) with both NYJ and the Ravens (and right with Pitt actually).

 

[puckhead]

didn't read all of the thread.. hope it's not a repeat.
just found it pretty durned funny.

 

[Darkstone42]

I suppose I need to qualify what I meant about Manning and the Steelers' offense. I believe Manning would put up Ben-like numbers behind that offensive line. I don't think he would put up Manning-like numbers. And even just going by the statistics, Manning is the only quarterback in the league who has performed throughout his career at a level head-and-shoulders above Ben. Brady is better. After that, Rivers, Rodgers, Brees, and Roethlisberger are all very comparable.

Also, Ben attempted 32.4 passes per game this season. Manning was at 42.4, Brees at 41.1, Bradford at 36.9, Palmer at 36.6, Schaub at 35.9, Ryan at 35.6, Rivers at 33.8, E. Manning at 33.7, Rodgers at 32.8 (calling the game in which he got injured a half game) and Sanchez at 31.9. If you call Rodgers's injury game a full game, Ben was 9th in the league in pass attempts per game, which tells a better story than 22nd in overall attempts.

When it comes down to it, I won't call Ben an all-time great, but he is in the same breath as most of the elite quarterbacks in the game today, even statistically. Like I said, according to career averages, only Manning is really head and shoulders above him and Brady significantly above him.

 

[IPostedWhat]

 

[Winged_Wheel88]

OMG!












Oakland still has a football team?

 

[IPostedWhat]

100!