OT: MCoy Should Just Shut His Mouth and Go To Work

[JDM]

No, we should educate people when they are wrong so they can better themselves, and the world as a whole. That is how society continues to progress and thrive.

 

[jayviabay]

Basic psychology:

There is no such thing as a bad word, only bad uses for words. Words are used for communication, the expression of thoughts and ideas. Nothing more. They cannot be innately good nor bad.

 

[JDM]

Again, that's a great ideal, but it's not how your brain works. The connections are there and activated when the word is used.

 

[jayviabay]

Random Fact:

I have a black TV, Black car, etc., and none of them matches my skin color. If i put a piece of white printer paper next to my girlfriends skin, it does not even come close!

My skin color is more accurately a shade of brown and hers is more accurately a shade of pink or tan but yet we accept the words black and white as accurate skin descriptions. I guess it is just apart of who we are as a society, to use words the way we seem fit to do?

 

[imac_21]

I am referring to the parts of your brain that fire. The words are similar enough that they trigger essentially the same reaction is the brain, and the history of that word is triggered subconsciously with either word. This is entirely straight forward, basic, psychology. The brain tunes that out as noise because the amount of noise that it processes out significantly outweighs the amount the conscious part processes, and as the effect is small and constant, it never passes into your conscious brain.

You really should read into some basic psychology and how the brain, and the subconscious in particular, works. It's actually really cool stuff and will help you learn a lot about yourself, and a lot about how people can manipulate how you think with just a simple change in word choice. Most of the processing that goes on for every single word is entirely subconscious. The same thing happens with colors, and with shapes, and combinations thereof (they have done studies where they did taste tests of liquor, for example, three times. There was one liquor that would do well in blind taste tests, but didn't perform well in actual sales. When it was taste tested out of it's own bottle, it fared poorly. When the bottle was switched with another brand, it dominated the taste test.) Understanding these affects makes it far more difficult to be manipulated, and the knowledge is priceless.

It sounds like reading what you've read will just greatly lower my already fairly low opinion of mankind. I would greatly appreciate a list of other words that this phenomenon applies to. Otherwise it seems like just a BS way someone/s has/have tried to further demonize blacks for using such a "racist" word in a friendly way to address each other and to justify the idea of "they can say it n***a so I can call them n***ers and they have to accept it because context, despite everything mankind have been to understand about its importance throughout history, is irrelevant."

That's what you're saying, right? Context doesn't matter.

Brilliant.*


My use of brilliant was meant in a sarcastic, demeaning way. But because "brilliant" has so many positive connotations related to it, I'm sure on a subconscious level you have taken it as a glowing complement and believe, on a subconscious level, that I accept your thesis.

Or does "brilliant" not have strong enough connotations for this to apply to. Only n***a and n***er do.

 

[imac_21]

No. I am saying the effect is stronger the more of the meaning that the negative part is applied to. Most people are not even aware of black being used in the way he is implying. For people who are aware, that is still a far smaller meaning of the word than the connection the n word has. There are very few words with effects as powerful because there are very few words that are so strongly connected to a negative history.

So what about a 19 year old black man who has never been called n***er in a negative way, but his friends have called him n***a in a loving way for his entire adolescent life. He has built up positive connections to the word, and since you seem to have implied that it is a largely personal experience, if he were traveling in say, backwoods Arkansas and went into a convenience store where the owner said "get out of here n***er!" he would subconsciously take it as a positive interaction because his personal exposure to the word, and all derivations of, is positive. Correct?

 

[jayviabay]

It sounds like reading what you've read will just greatly lower my already fairly low opinion of mankind. I would greatly appreciate a list of other words that this phenomenon applies to. Otherwise it seems like just a BS way someone/s has/have tried to further demonize blacks for using such a "racist" word in a friendly way to address each other and to justify the idea of "they can say it n***a so I can call them n***ers and they have to accept it because context, despite everything mankind have been to understand about its importance throughout history, is irrelevant."

That's what you're saying, right? Context doesn't matter.

Brilliant.*


My use of brilliant was meant in a sarcastic, demeaning way. But because "brilliant" has so many positive connotations related to it, I'm sure on a subconscious level you have taken it as a glowing complement and believe, on a subconscious level, that I accept your thesis.

Or does "brilliant" not have strong enough connotations for this to apply to. Only n***a and n***er do.

You are a school Teacher that needs a raise! Schooling our society off the clock...

 

[JDM]

It sounds like reading what you've read will just greatly lower my already fairly low opinion of mankind. I would greatly appreciate a list of other words that this phenomenon applies to. Otherwise it seems like just a BS way someone/s has/have tried to further demonize blacks for using such a "racist" word in a friendly way to address each other and to justify the idea of "they can say it n***a so I can call them n***ers and they have to accept it because context, despite everything mankind have been to understand about its importance throughout history, is irrelevant."

That's what you're saying, right? Context doesn't matter.

Brilliant.*


My use of brilliant was meant in a sarcastic, demeaning way. But because "brilliant" has so many positive connotations related to it, I'm sure on a subconscious level you have taken it as a glowing complement and believe, on a subconscious level, that I accept your thesis.

Or does "brilliant" not have strong enough connotations for this to apply to. Only n***a and n***er do.

I clearly stated that other people doing things wrong does not give you an excuse to copy them when you know better.

Now you're just being deliberately argumentative and I don't have time for that. I told you the areas of psychology to look at if you actually have any interest, and you're being aggressive and argumentative for no reason. so enjoy yourself. This conversation isn't worth continuing if you intend to act like a child.

 

[imac_21]

You didn't teach me anything. I am aware of the history. The connection may have even been similarly strong at one point. But when black has other meaning, like "my house is black" and there is minimal other meaning to the other word (besides the group identity meaning, but this is based on the history, still), the impact over time changes.

I thought it was at a subconscious level that of which were completely unaware? I thought context was irrelevant? N***er and n***a have different meanings, but not only that, they are different words with different spellings. "black house" and "black person" both use the same spelling and meaning of the word black, as a description related to the colour of the subject being discussed.

Now you're saying the context matters? If it's subconscious, as you have stated throughout this conversation, then saying "the car was black" would bring with it negative connotations on a subconscious level.

 

[imac_21]

I clearly stated that other people doing things wrong does not give you an excuse to copy them when you know better.

Now you're just being deliberately argumentative and I don't have time for that. I told you the areas of psychology to look at if you actually have any interest, and you're being aggressive and argumentative for no reason. so enjoy yourself. This conversation isn't worth continuing if you intend to act like a child.

And I'm saying that one black person referring to a friend as "my n***a" is not doing something wrong.

I'm looking forward to you providing a list of words that this subconscious bullshit that you're trying to push applies to.

But I understand, you've realized that everything you've said in this thread is incorrect and a way of further institutionalizing racism and you want out of this conversation. Tuck your tail and run. I understand.

 

[JDM]

I thought it was at a subconscious level that of which were completely unaware? I thought context was irrelevant? N***er and n***a have different meanings, but not only that, they are different words with different spellings. "black house" and "black person" both use the same spelling and meaning of the word black, as a description related to the colour of the subject being discussed.

Now you're saying the context matters? If it's subconscious, as you have stated throughout this conversation, then saying "the car was black" would bring with it negative connotations on a subconscious level.

The word black has a mostly neutral meaning, with some but not many negative connotations.

The N word has a mostly negative meaning, with some positive connotations but nowhere near enough to cancel out the negative ones. There is no comparison to be made. The scale is far too different.

 

[imac_21]

The impact hasn't changed. It may change in the future, but it hasn't changed.

I am not telling you what should happen or how things should work. I am telling you what does happen, as a basic understanding of psychology makes very clear.

And I'm telling you that you're wrong. Since the only words that you can provide as examples in this are n***er and n***a, and you dismiss every other example offered as not applying, it's impossible to accept that what you are arguing is human nature.

When you try to argue using science that the use of n***er by a Klan member as he abuses/assaults/murders a black man is the equivalent of someone saying to a friend on the street "my n***a!" with a friendly or loving tone is the same on any level, you are simply trying to justify the use of a negative term by people whose intent is to hurt.

The deeper you go with your argument, the more offensive it becomes. Particularly since you either won't or, as I'm starting to believe, can't provide other words that fit the same square hole you are attempting to hammer n***er and n***a into.

 

[imac_21]

Again, that's a great ideal, but it's not how your brain works. The connections are there and activated when the word is used.

What are some other words that do this.

 

[JDM]

No other word has the strong and recent history (combined with racism still being prevalent) attached to it that that word does.

I also never said they are equivalent. I said they were all bad. Intent makes it worse. Not having a negative intent does not make it acceptable or unharmful.

I know I said I was done, but this blind making up things I didn't say drew me back in for one last post. This is my last reply to you, and I will consider future deliberate ignoring of what I said simple trolling and ignore you.

 

[imac_21]

The word black has a mostly neutral meaning, with some but not many negative connotations.

The N word has a mostly negative meaning, with some positive connotations but nowhere near enough to cancel out the negative ones. There is no comparison to be made. The scale is far too different.

Then what are words that are at the same level as n***er? Words that have there negative (or positive on the other end of this scale) meaning so ingrained in our subconscious that it overrides the context of the word's usage in any given situation.

Convince me that when a black man, who was raised in today's world, with today's hip hop culture (not this ridiculous overriding American culture you spoke of yesterday) where n***a is used in a largely positive way, gets married and his best man says "Congratulations, my n***a, you did it," that the groom feels insulted on a subconscious level.

 

[imac_21]

No other word has the strong and recent history (combined with racism still being prevalent) attached to it that that word does.

I also never said they are equivalent. I said they were all bad. Intent makes it worse. Not having a negative intent does not make it acceptable or unharmful.

I know I said I was done, but this blind making up things I didn't say drew me back in for one last post. This is my last reply to you, and I will consider future deliberate ignoring of what I said simple trolling and ignore you.

So this is the ONLY word that this subconscious meaning theory that you are promoting applies to?

Yeah, that reeks of attempting to justify the non-black of use of the word n***er in any context simply because blacks use it as a term of endearment.

If all these claims you made about the subconscious were true, there would be more examples. To me, this argument of yours is in the same vein as the "scientific" studies that say climate change is not related to man and pollution.

 

[JDM]

So this is the ONLY word that this subconscious meaning theory that you are promoting applies to?

Yeah, that reeks of attempting to justify the non-black of use of the word n***er in any context simply because blacks use it as a term of endearment.

If all these claims you made about the subconscious were true, there would be more examples. To me, this argument of yours is in the same vein as the "scientific" studies that say climate change is not related to man and pollution.

No, it applies to everything.

There are relatively few words with such negative connotations. Any discriminatory term would do this same thing, but not near the level. You know what words you shouldn't say. I don't use the language for the reasons I have clearly stated time and time again in this thread. That includes repeating them so you know what I'm talking about when you already do. Think of slurs against gays that have no other meaning, or slurs against other races with no other meanings. They will do the same thing, just not on the same scale.

 

[NinerSickness]

Random Fact:

I have a black TV, Black car, etc., and none of them matches my skin color. If i put a piece of white printer paper next to my girlfriends skin, it does not even come close!

My skin color is more accurately a shade of brown and hers is more accurately a shade of pink or tan but yet we accept the words black and white as accurate skin descriptions. I guess it is just apart of who we are as a society, to use words the way we seem fit to do?

No. It's not a part of society. It's just words. English is just a jumble of old Germanic & Anglo Saxton words with sprinkled with others. One context of a word has nothing to do with another.

For example, I could accurately use the word "he" or "his" referring to a woman. "One should always wash his sports bra after a long run." This is grammatically correct because "his" refers to the gender neutral "one." However, since 99.99% of the time a sports bra is worn by women, most people would say "her" sport bra. But if I said "his," there aren't any underlying connotations of a sports bra being masculine because the word "his" usually refers to something belonging to a male. People who say otherwise are just connecting two things that don't have anything to do with each other.

Just because the word "seamen" (sailors) is pronounced identically to "semen" doesn't mean one definition has anything to do with the other. If you were dressed in all yellow and I said, "Wow, you're pretty yellow today," that shouldn't be viewed as an insult just because one definition of "yellow" is cowardly. And someone shouldn't avoid wearing yellow because of a homonym.

Another example is the german word "uberaffengeil." Literally it means over-monkey-horny. But idiomatically it just means something that's really cool. So if someone in Germany calls you "uberaffengeil," don't punch them in the face because you think they're saying you're an overly horny monkey. Just accept the compliment and move on with your life.

 

[imac_21]

No, it applies to everything.

There are relatively few words with such negative connotations. Any discriminatory term would do this same thing, but not near the level. You know what words you shouldn't say. I don't use the language for the reasons I have clearly stated time and time again in this thread. That includes repeating them so you know what I'm talking about when I already do. Think of slurs against gays that have no other meaning, or slurs against other races with no other meanings. They will do the same thing, just not on the same scale.

So why when I brought up "beast" you dismissed it as not applying? I'm also waiting for your explanation regarding this

Convince me that when a black man, who was raised in today's world, with today's hip hop culture (not this ridiculous overriding American culture you spoke of yesterday) where n***a is used in a largely positive way, gets married and his best man says "Congratulations, my n***a, you did it," that the groom feels insulted on a subconscious level.

This is a bullshit attempt either consciously or subconsciously by you, but definitely by whoever authored the papers you have refused to cite, to justify the use of n***er in a derogatory manner by attempting to say every use of the word is derogatory and insulting.

It's offensive, as is your refusal to cite any sources.

 

[JDM]

Beast does not fit the criteria of primarily discriminatory with no other meaning.

I already made it very clear there is not one source for this. It is pulled from a variety of different very basic pieces of psychology, including a variety of text- and other books that are not accessible online. I am not going to go find a lot of background information on psychology for you because I have no desire to do so.

Also, claiming that there is never any possible positive use of the word is very explicitly a claim that it is not acceptable for me to do so.