OT: Malaysian Airline Shot Down in Ukraine

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I am intensely suspicious of that transmission. A little too perfect.


One of the more, shall we say, "unique" things I heard last night was some senator turning the rhetoric up to 11. He said something to the effect of if Russia gave the seperatists weapons that led to the slaughter of innocent civilians, then they need to be help accountable.

Oh, so we believe in the culpability of weapons suppliers in the deaths of innocent people now?


I so very much prefer BBC News, by the way.

I get what you're saying and see the hypocrisy, but it's not like countries the US/EU has supplied with weapons were filled with Americans/Europeans looking to be annexed by the US/EU. This is a very different situation.

My own theory: Ukraine shot the plane down on purpose with the intent to frame the Russian separatists and convince NATO to intervene on their behalf now that a plane originating from a NATO member nation and containing hundreds of NATO citizens on board has been taken down as a result of this conflict.

 

[evolver115]

I am intensely suspicious of that transmission. A little too perfect.


One of the more, shall we say, "unique" things I heard last night was some senator turning the rhetoric up to 11. He said something to the effect of if Russia gave the seperatists weapons that led to the slaughter of innocent civilians, then they need to be help accountable.

Oh, so we believe in the culpability of weapons suppliers in the deaths of innocent people now?


I so very much prefer BBC News, by the way.

Oh it's definitely suspicious. I prefer any media outlet that isn't domestic, especially when it comes to something this controversial. US media is so hard to get straight facts from because it is laced with politics. I suppose Der Spiegel is, as well. And just like our media, you have to decipher the BS, but I figured it was worth linking for our community here to read.

 

[pixburgher66]

I am intensely suspicious of that transmission. A little too perfect.


One of the more, shall we say, "unique" things I heard last night was some senator turning the rhetoric up to 11. He said something to the effect of if Russia gave the seperatists weapons that led to the slaughter of innocent civilians, then they need to be help accountable.

Oh, so we believe in the culpability of weapons suppliers in the deaths of innocent people now?


I so very much prefer BBC News, by the way.

BBC is the best. News through a non-American scope. Also, yeah, the US should be careful what it says about holding weapon suppliers accountable...our history is filled with supplying weapons and financial support to shady characters (Who was that guy? The one in Iraq? You know...the one we gave all those weapons to that one time? )

 

[pixburgher66]

I get what you're saying and see the hypocrisy, but it's not like countries the US/EU has supplied with weapons were filled with Americans/Europeans looking to be annexed by the US/EU. This is a very different situation.

My own theory: Ukraine shot the plane down on purpose with the intent to frame the Russian separatists and convince NATO to intervene on their behalf now that a plane originating from a NATO member nation and containing hundreds of NATO citizens on board has been taken down as a result of this conflict.

That's a dark one...I'm still thinking it was, as the recording indicated, separatists mistakenly shot it down. That or separatists doing it to exert their power, a "look at me!" type thing.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

BBC is the best. News through a non-American scope. Also, yeah, the US should be careful what it says about holding weapon suppliers accountable...our history is filled with supplying weapons and financial support to shady characters (Who was that guy? The one in Iraq? You know...the one we gave all those weapons to that one time? )

I think his name was Bob something.

Can't remember the names of those guys in Afghanistan that we gave weapons to either. Just glad that one didn't come back to bite us.

 

[pixburgher66]

I think his name was Bob something.

Can't remember the names of those guys in Afghanistan that we gave weapons to either. Just glad that one didn't come back to bite us.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

[ame="[MEDIA=twitter]490143849634099200[/MEDIA]"][/ame]

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

(Who was that guy? The one in Iraq? You know...the one we gave all those weapons to that one time? )

Still my favourite dictator. Always laughed at those videos of him standing on balconies shooting shotguns into the air.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

How the hell were they still going through there in the first place?

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I get what you're saying and see the hypocrisy, but it's not like countries the US/EU has supplied with weapons were filled with Americans/Europeans looking to be annexed by the US/EU. This is a very different situation.

My own theory: Ukraine shot the plane down on purpose with the intent to frame the Russian separatists and convince NATO to intervene on their behalf now that a plane originating from a NATO member nation and containing hundreds of NATO citizens on board has been taken down as a result of this conflict.

Not buying that. Not that they would do it on purpose at least. I could buy an attempt to cover something like that up after doing it accidentally, but not shooting down a commercial airliner on purpose. The difficulty in covering something like that up would be immeasurable.

Keep in mind too that Ukraine has been trying to join the EU and NATO for a while now. Despite the ongoing problems, I don't think they're dumb enough to do something like this, which would pretty much kill their chances for all eternity.

 

[pixburgher66]

How the hell were they still going through there in the first place?

I think it's really easy to say that now, and people even mentioned how a portion of the airspace had been deemed unsafe, but the part this plane was shot down in was not in that airspace.

 

[forty_three]

Oh it's definitely suspicious. I prefer any media outlet that isn't domestic, especially when it comes to something this controversial. US media is so hard to get straight facts from because it is laced with politics. I suppose Der Spiegel is, as well. And just like our media, you have to decipher the BS, but I figured it was worth linking for our community here to read.

Def a good link, and far more informative than a lot of domestic sources. I like Der Spiegel a lot. I usually turn to international news sources.

That is apparently the "normal" flight plan. They flew more north yesterday to avoid very bad weather. And Malaysian Airlines asked for permission to fly at 35k feet and were denied by Ukraine ATC who told them to maintain 33k.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Not buying that. Not that they would do it on purpose at least. I could buy an attempt to cover something like that up after doing it accidentally, but not shooting down a commercial airliner on purpose. The difficulty in covering something like that up would be immeasurable.

Keep in mind too that Ukraine has been trying to join the EU and NATO for a while now. Despite the ongoing problems, I don't think they're dumb enough to do something like this, which would pretty much kill their chances for all eternity.

I actually think it's the smart move, because at this rate they're going to lose half their landmass within the year. US and Europe aren't doing anything to stop Putin from arming the rebels. They needed to do something drastic.

Of course, given the whole rebels-tweeting-about-shooting-down-a-plane-then-deleting-it thing, this was almost assuredly them.

 

[forty_three]

Not buying that. Not that they would do it on purpose at least. I could buy an attempt to cover something like that up after doing it accidentally, but not shooting down a commercial airliner on purpose. The difficulty in covering something like that up would be immeasurable.

Keep in mind too that Ukraine has been trying to join the EU and NATO for a while now. Despite the ongoing problems, I don't think they're dumb enough to do something like this, which would pretty much kill their chances for all eternity.

Their Air Traffic Control directed the plane there and at that altitude. For them to claim "ignorance" of the plane and shooting it down by mistake will not wash.

Now to say directed it there, that's to say that there was bad weather south and the plane was redirected to a heading that should have been safe.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I think it's really easy to say that now, and people even mentioned how a portion of the airspace had been deemed unsafe, but the part this plane was shot down in was not in that airspace.

They weren't even supposed to be in that airspace, though. Bad weather forced them there. My question is why not divert the opposite direction?

 

[forty_three]

They weren't even supposed to be in that airspace, though. Bad weather forced them there. My question is why not divert the opposite direction?

What Opposite direction?

To avoid the weather south, they would have had to go all the way down past Bulgaria and Turkey. Which would have taken them over Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Pretty sure there are more than a few restrictions there.

To go further north, they would have stayed in Russian airspace. But they would have burned a ton of extra fuel. And the airspace they were in was not supposed to be dangerous.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

What Opposite direction?

To avoid the weather south, they would have had to go all the way down past Bulgaria and Turkey. Which would have taken them over Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Pretty sure there are more than a few restrictions there.

To go further north, they would have stayed in Russian airspace. But they would have burned a ton of extra fuel. And the airspace they were in was not supposed to be dangerous.

Isn't the path they're using now taking them over that exact area?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

What Opposite direction?

To avoid the weather south, they would have had to go all the way down past Bulgaria and Turkey. Which would have taken them over Syria, Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Pretty sure there are more than a few restrictions there.

To go further north, they would have stayed in Russian airspace. But they would have burned a ton of extra fuel. And the airspace they were in was not supposed to be dangerous.

This is the regular flight path prior to yesterday, and it seems they fly over Afghanistan and Iran anyway.

Attached is the current flight path, and it seems like they're going to cut across Turkey and Iran, which they should've been doing anyway.

 

[evolver115]

Def a good link, and far more informative than a lot of domestic sources. I like Der Spiegel a lot. I usually turn to international news sources.

What other one's do you read, 43? I definitely read BBC just because it is so easy being in English.

 

[dash]

Man, so heart wrenching...

SYDNEY - In an almost incomprehensible twist of fate, an Australian woman who lost her brother in the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 learned on Friday that her stepdaughter was on the plane shot down over Ukraine.

Kaylene Mann's brother Rod Burrows and sister-in-law Mary Burrows were on board Flight 370 when it vanished in March. On Friday, Mann found out that her stepdaughter, Maree Rizk, was killed along with 297 others on Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which U.S. intelligence authorities believe was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.

"It's just brought everyone, everything back," said Greg Burrows, Mann's brother. "It's just ... ripped our guts again."

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/australia...aysian-flight-disasters-ripped-110934142.html