OT: Disappointing Finishes to Niners' Last 2 seasons

[tzill]

So...

Which loss hurt more?

NCF Championship game with 2 fumbles by a player out of position on special teams?

or

SB with bad DB play and the refs ignoring blatant muggings?

I say the SB because I feel the game was taken out of our hands. The NCFC was lost by our own doing. I can swallow that easier. It was also a solidly played game by both teams.

I see it exactly the opposite: the Giants game last year was taken away from us on Whitner's forced fumble that was inexplicably blown dead. That play goes to its natural conclusion and we win our sixth Lombardi last year.

The Ravens game was a fucking defensive shitshow from beginning to end, with a side of special teams fuckup. We never pressured Flacco, and we had trouble even stopping their running game. We deserved to lose that one; we were robbed vs. the Giants.

 

[Robotech]

I see it exactly the opposite: the Giants game last year was taken away from us on Whitner's forced fumble that was inexplicably blown dead. That play goes to its natural conclusion and we win our sixth Lombardi last year.

The Ravens game was a fucking defensive shitshow from beginning to end, with a side of special teams fuckup. We never pressured Flacco, and we had trouble even stopping their running game. We deserved to lose that one; we were robbed vs. the Giants.

If only we had last year's defense with this year's offense. Wow. And yeah, that pissed me off last year when they blew that play dead.

 

[gp956]

This.

Pretender D.

It's a tribute to the Offense that they kept the Niners in the game at all. No pressure, one sack, horrific coverage.

As I said before the game: any team that erratic doesn't deserve the Lombardi. They were extremely lucky to win the NFC championship.

As Eric Davis put it: last year's team was better, but this year's team is more complete. 2011's much superior defense and special teams tips the balance.

 

[calsnowskier]

As Eric Davis put it: last year's team was better, but this year's team is more complete. 2011's much superior defense and special teams tips the balance.

But 2012 offense was HEAD AND SHOULDERS above 2011 offense.

I am not sure which team I would rate as better.

I may have to go with 2012 because 2011 had epic good luck with injuries while 2012 was hit pretty hard (relatively) by injuries (Hunter, Akers, Williams, Manningham, JSmith). If you apply the same injury avoidance to the 2012 team, than there is no discussion.

 

[gp956]

But 2012 offense was HEAD AND SHOULDERS above 2011 offense.

I am not sure which team I would rate as better.

I may have to go with 2012 because 2011 had epic good luck with injuries while 2012 was hit pretty hard (relatively) by injuries (Hunter, Akers, Williams, Manningham, JSmith). If you apply the same injury avoidance to the 2012 team, than there is no discussion.

Wasn't Patrick Willis out for about 8 games in 2011? Wasn't Gore gimpy with a sore ankle much of 2011? Wasn't Josh Morgan lost for the year in Oct 2011? Didn't Kyle Williams lose a few games to a concussion in 2011? Didn't Adam Snyder miss time and effectiveness in 2011 with a hamstring pull? And then no OTA and a short training camp to install a new offense in 2011.

You got to go with what you see on the field, not what-ifs.

 

[SFAnthem]

2012 team was better but had more pressure on them, much more difficult schedule and dealing with the transition to Kaep.

2011 came out of nowhere and were an offensively flawed team (but had superior defensive and special teams)

The SB loss is much worse because it is historic and affects the niners legacy. If we're evaluating the team on a year to year basis, this year was amazing but in 49er terms it was a black mark far worse than an overachieving team that lost in the NFC championship.

If the niners lost to a much superior team in the SB, I would be fine with it but to make so many mistakes and still having a chance to win is a gut punch.

 

[SFAnthem]

I see it exactly the opposite: the Giants game last year was taken away from us on Whitner's forced fumble that was inexplicably blown dead. That play goes to its natural conclusion and we win our sixth Lombardi last year.

The Ravens game was a fucking defensive shitshow from beginning to end, with a side of special teams fuckup. We never pressured Flacco, and we had trouble even stopping their running game. We deserved to lose that one; we were robbed vs. the Giants.

A shitshow is right.

But the niners were robbed last year the same way they were this year. Its their own fault.

The 2011 offensive performance in the NFCG was atrocious. The defense masked a lot of their issues. An average offense wins that game because the defense played one of the best games I've seen from a niners defense ever.

 

[gp956]

2012 team was better but had more pressure on them, much more difficult schedule and dealing with the transition to Kaep.

2011 came out of nowhere and were an offensively flawed team (but had superior defensive and special teams)

The SB loss is much worse because it is historic and affects the niners legacy. If we're evaluating the team on a year to year basis, this year was amazing but in 49er terms it was a black mark far worse than an overachieving team that lost in the NFC championship.

If the niners lost to a much superior team in the SB, I would be fine with it but to make so many mistakes and still having a chance to win is a gut punch.

This is correct.

 

[SFAnthem]

This.

Pretender D.

It's a tribute to the Offense that they kept the Niners in the game at all. No pressure, one sack, horrific coverage.

As I said before the game: any team that erratic doesn't deserve the Lombardi. They were extremely lucky to win the NFC championship.

Im probably resorting to arguing for sake of arguing now but how did the offense keep the team in the game?

Blame is shared among all aspects of this team-coaches, offense, defense, special teams..they all failed.

The defense was putrid again in the first half. That they made a key fumble and some stops in the second half doesnt excuse them at all but to focus solely on one side of the ball as the reason the niners lost isnt accurate at all.

Plenty of places to point the fingers in this one. I think youre holding onto a statement made weeks ago and trying to make it absolute.

The reason they were down early was because of the entire team. The reason they fought back was the entire team. The reason they came up short was the entire team, too.

You are hitting on key weaknesses though. Lack of depth along the DL = no pressure = secondary exposed.

Address that and add another wr weapon and a new kicker and use this loss as a rallying force for a ring. At this point, only a 3 peat (i know, excessive) could wash the bad taste from this SB loss for me

 

[msgkings322]

Im probably resorting to arguing for sake of arguing now but how did the offense keep the team in the game?

Blame is shared among all aspects of this team-coaches, offense, defense, special teams..they all failed.

The defense was putrid again in the first half. That they made a key fumble and some stops in the second half doesnt excuse them at all but to focus solely on one side of the ball as the reason the niners lost isnt accurate at all.

Plenty of places to point the fingers in this one. I think youre holding onto a statement made weeks ago and trying to make it absolute.

The reason they were down early was because of the entire team. The reason they fought back was the entire team. The reason they came up short was the entire team, too.

You are hitting on key weaknesses though. Lack of depth along the DL = no pressure = secondary exposed.

Address that and add another wr weapon and a new kicker and use this loss as a rallying force for a ring. At this point, only a 3 peat (i know, excessive) could wash the bad taste from this SB loss for me

That's the drama of sports...you're describing a shitty failure of a game, and yet if Kaep had just gotten that play off in that final drive (where they had to call time out) where he was going to run it into the endzone with Gore blocking...then the Niners win the SB and the narrative, your assessment, everything is different. Now they were good enough to win. All due to 2 ticks on the clock.

Just like the Giants last year, if they don't scrape out an ugly extra innings win in game 3 in Cincinatti (fueled by a rare Rolen misplay) then THAT narrative is 'shitty Giants not built for the playoffs, didn't show up to play, Bochy sucks, missed Melky, etc etc'. All on one little misplayed ball.

Sports are weird, and heartbreaking.

 

[tzill]

I don't know -- to me, baseball and football are very different. Baseball is a marathon to get to the playoffs and then a crapshoot in the playoffs. Football is a grind and weaknesses get exposed the further you go. Generally, the better teams advance in football; less so in baseball.

The Niners covered up their weakness in the secondary for about 3/4 of the season with an excellent pass rush. Then Smith got hurt and Rogers and Cully were exposed for the pretenders they are. You can't attack a weakness like that in baseball -- if the RF, for instance, is a poor fielder, hitters won't try to hit it into RF .

The Niners made it one game further than I thought they would because they got extraordinary breaks against the Coons. They are well positioned to contend for the next several years, but they will need to address the DL and the secondary. I'm guessing Baalke will.

Would the "narrative" have been different if Kap scores in the red zone? Yes. But it would have been a flukey championship. I'd take it, but it was unlikely that the defense would have been able to stop Flacco. The Niners overachieved; I'm happy with the season.

 

[sfsportsfan]

the part that really hurts is that there were multiple controversial calls or non calls, none of which went the 9ers way, and in the end cost the 9ers their perfect SB record. thats what was most frustrating.

 

[gp956]

I don't know -- to me, baseball and football are very different. Baseball is a marathon to get to the playoffs and then a crapshoot in the playoffs. Football is a grind and weaknesses get exposed the further you go. Generally, the better teams advance in football; less so in baseball.

The Niners covered up their weakness in the secondary for about 3/4 of the season with an excellent pass rush. Then Smith got hurt and Rogers and Cully were exposed for the pretenders they are. You can't attack a weakness like that in baseball -- if the RF, for instance, is a poor fielder, hitters won't try to hit it into RF .

The Niners made it one game further than I thought they would because they got extraordinary breaks against the Coons. They are well positioned to contend for the next several years, but they will need to address the DL and the secondary. I'm guessing Baalke will.

Would the "narrative" have been different if Kap scores in the red zone? Yes. But it would have been a flukey championship. I'd take it, but it was unlikely that the defense would have been able to stop Flacco. The Niners overachieved; I'm happy with the season.

My thoughts exactly - the separation between your alts must be shrinking.

 

[SFAnthem]

That's the drama of sports...you're describing a shitty failure of a game, and yet if Kaep had just gotten that play off in that final drive (where they had to call time out) where he was going to run it into the endzone with Gore blocking...then the Niners win the SB and the narrative, your assessment, everything is different. Now they were good enough to win. All due to 2 ticks on the clock.

Just like the Giants last year, if they don't scrape out an ugly extra innings win in game 3 in Cincinatti (fueled by a rare Rolen misplay) then THAT narrative is 'shitty Giants not built for the playoffs, didn't show up to play, Bochy sucks, missed Melky, etc etc'. All on one little misplayed ball.

Sports are weird, and heartbreaking.

Youre totally right about narratives developed after results and the games become more storied over time.

*no really mentions how the 88 niner team struggled for most of that Super Bowl or that Montana threw a pass right into a Bengal defenders arms, who dropped a sure int late in that game.

As always, to the victors go the spoils

 

[gp956]

Youre totally right about narratives developed after results and the games become more storied over time.

*no really mentions how the 88 niner team struggled for most of that Super Bowl or that Montana threw a pass right into a Bengal defenders arms, who dropped a sure int late in that game.

As always, to the victors go the spoils

No one? Maybe not in an NFL highlight film, but I think all Niner fans of that era distinctly remember the weakness of the 1988 team, and how the superbowl could have easily turned out differently. Same as they remember Joe trying to force passes in the 1987 loss to Minnesota - and Bill Walsh's preoccupation that year with bedding an ex-playmate turned local weathergirl.

Narratives are for the lazy.

 

[tzill]

the part that really hurts is that there were multiple controversial calls or non calls, none of which went the 9ers way, and in the end cost the 9ers their perfect SB record. thats what was most frustrating.

Yeah, but the Niners got those breaks to even get to the SB, the Falcons were the better team. I don't think you can complain about officiating --- especially with what the Niners got away with in the NFC Championship. The defense stunk and Kap had a poor first half; they didn't deserve to win.