OT: Brett Favre...and his "streak"

[Forty_Sixand2]

Barry Bonds allegedly uses steroids to help him hit more homeruns...we ostracize him based on the fact that the drugs may have helped him accomplish his feat.

Sammy Sosa....not alleged, but the same

Mark McGuire....

Roger Clemens.....



However, BRETT FAVRE, today is getting lauded for his biggest accomplishment...this streak....being Mr Tough Guy....playing through pain....however what DisnESPN fails to ever mention is his ADMITTED addiction to prescription pain killers that helped him....wait for it....PLAY THROUGH PAIN...and therefore, you would have to think aided in his streak....

CNNSI.com - SI Online - SI Flashback: Bitter pill - Wednesday January 09, 2002 01:41 PM

NFL, NFLPA need to take closer look at possible painkiller abuse - Michael McCann - SI.com

His streak is as much a sham as any home run record or pitching record people want to discredit due to the use of PEDs.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

hey now ... you stop right there bucko ... do not besmirch the gunslinger ... the good ole boy ... hell havent you heard ... he's like a kid out there

quit it!

 

[Destroydacre]

At least Favre should finally be gone after this season. I agree that all the fawning over him is ridiculous. It's funny how nothing he can do can tarnish his reputation not having the most interceptions, not having the most fumbles, and not costing his teams his last two trips into the playoffs by throwing picks in OT of the NFC Championship that directly led to the other team scoring both times.


Good riddance Favre. Some will miss you. I won't.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

At least Favre should finally be gone after this season. I agree that all the fawning over him is ridiculous. It's funny how nothing he can do can tarnish his reputation not having the most interceptions, not having the most fumbles, and not costing his teams his last two trips into the playoffs by throwing picks in OT of the NFC Championship that directly led to the other team scoring both times.


Good riddance Favre. Some will miss you. I won't.

...or texting his junk to some lady while acting like the ultimate husband/family man.

 

[Comeds]

Step away from the soap box attacking intergalactic superstar and hero Brett Favre.

 

[elocomotive]

I get your point, 46, but I think you're analogy is off.

For starters, prescription pain killers are/were not illegal. In fact, pain killers are widely used to get guys on the field, so it's not like Favre was benefitting from something other guys were not that gave him a competitive edge. To me, there is a big difference between a prescribed drug and an illegal substance. The articles you cited talk about the possible need for regulation and the potential negative effects of pain killers, but steroids and other substances are KNOWN to be illegal. It's a different line to cross - one which violates union/league rules and one which subjects your own personal health to risks. The latter is a personal decision, the former is not.

Second, they are not performance-enhancing. Even if they get him on the field, he still has to perform at a level that makes him worthy to be there, which pain killers don't help you do - they don't make you faster, stronger, or improve your judgment or vision. Barry Bonds markedly improved his batting directly BECAUSE of steroids, but Favre did not become a better QB b/c of pain killers. He still had to go out and play and pain killers don't get rid of the debilitating effects of an injury - in other words, he might be able to better stomach the pain of an ankle injury, but he won't be running any better b/c of it.

To me, those are significant and tangible differences.

I don't fall in either the Favre-lover or Favre-hater camps generally, but I think you have to admire the accomplishment, love him or hate him. Even as an O's fan, it might be more impressive than Ripken's streak.

 

[elocomotive]

Step away from the soap box attacking intergalactic superstar and hero Brett Favre.

You keep moving him up a notch! Haha. What's next? Universally belove SUPER-hero?

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I get your point, 46, but I think you're analogy is off.

For starters, prescription pain killers are/were not illegal. In fact, pain killers are widely used to get guys on the field, so it's not like Favre was benefitting from something other guys were not that gave him a competitive edge. To me, there is a big difference between a prescribed drug and an illegal substance. The articles you cited talk about the possible need for regulation and the potential negative effects of pain killers, but steroids and other substances are KNOWN to be illegal. It's a different line to cross - one which violates union/league rules and one which subjects your own personal health to risks. The latter is a personal decision, the former is not.

Second, they are not performance-enhancing. Even if they get him on the field, he still has to perform at a level that makes him worthy to be there, which pain killers don't help you do - they don't make you faster, stronger, or improve your judgment or vision. Barry Bonds markedly improved his batting directly BECAUSE of steroids, but Favre did not become a better QB b/c of pain killers. He still had to go out and play and pain killers don't get rid of the debilitating effects of an injury - in other words, he might be able to better stomach the pain of an ankle injury, but he won't be running any better b/c of it.

To me, those are significant and tangible differences.

I don't fall in either the Favre-lover or Favre-hater camps generally, but I think you have to admire the accomplishment, love him or hate him. Even as an O's fan, it might be more impressive than Ripken's streak.

I understand your points but would counter them with this:

To your first point, HGH and steroids that were used by these athletes were also not technically "illegal" for the vast portion of the time they were of benefit. This was especially true with HGH. Hell, McGuire admitted to using Androgen and buying it at a nutritional store. The guys stayed one step ahead of the "laws" if you will. As for the PPK legality. It may not be illegal to use them when prescribed, but I highly doubt a doctor woudl prescribe these for that long of a period of time at those doses. That is like terminal cancer patient stuff. The PKs were at worst illegally obtained, and at best unethically prescribed.

To your second point, HGH and PEDs did not help Bonds or Sosa or Manny hit 90 mph breaking balls and 97 mph sliding fastballs,, they just helped them hit em a little bit farther. I think the analogy holds especially true here. Brett had to play and perform, but it was easier because he dulled all of the pain that others were feeling. Manny, Bonds and Sosa had to go out and hit and field, but they could train a little longer and get an extra few feet out of each hit.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

elcoc,

Also to your second point, i am saying that it helped him achieve this "streak" by getting him onto the field, the same way it helped the baseball guys acquire their "numbers". I am not bashing his other stats, just this supposed tough guy streak.

 

[elocomotive]

I understand your points but would counter them with this:

To your first point, HGH and steroids that were used by these athletes were also not technically "illegal" for the vast portion of the time they were of benefit. This was especially true with HGH. Hell, McGuire admitted to using Androgen and buying it at a nutritional store. The guys stayed one step ahead of the "laws" if you will. As for the PPK legality. It may not be illegal to use them when prescribed, but I highly doubt a doctor woudl prescribe these for that long of a period of time at those doses. That is like terminal cancer patient stuff. The PKs were at worst illegally obtained, and at best unethically prescribed.

That's a fair point, but many of the guys you referenced were also using illegal substances or continued using substances that were not banned previously after they became outlawed. I totally get and see your point, but it still strikes me as a significant difference.

To your second point, HGH and PEDs did not help Bonds or Sosa or Manny hit 90 mph breaking balls and 97 mph sliding fastballs,, they just helped them hit em a little bit farther. I think the analogy holds especially true here. Brett had to play and perform, but it was easier because he dulled all of the pain that others were feeling. Manny, Bonds and Sosa had to go out and hit and field, but they could train a little longer and get an extra few feet out of each hit.

Yeah, but that little bit farther made a big difference, didn't it? Your contact is the same, but if you're stronger and can hit it 25 feet farther, that can mean the difference between 35 homers and 55 homers.

And while I get your point about him dulling the pain, my point was this is fairly common practice in the NFL. So the other guys he is "competing" with for the streak have the same options available to them. They can, and do, ask trainers to hit them up with a pain killer before or during the game to allow them to keep playing. In that respect, Favre is on a level playing field.

Good points, 46. Agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

That's a fair point, but many of the guys you referenced were also using illegal substances or continued using substances that were not banned previously after they became outlawed. I totally get and see your point, but it still strikes me as a significant difference.



Yeah, but that little bit farther made a big difference, didn't it? Your contact is the same, but if you're stronger and can hit it 25 feet farther, that can mean the difference between 35 homers and 55 homers.

And while I get your point about him dulling the pain, my point was this is fairly common practice in the NFL. So the other guys he is "competing" with for the streak have the same options available to them. They can, and do, ask trainers to hit them up with a pain killer before or during the game to allow them to keep playing. In that respect, Favre is on a level playing field.

Good points, 46. Agree to disagree I guess.

Sounds good.

 

[ritari330]

Think you're way off mark 46.He went to rehab durring the offseason early in his career, and I believe, for a long time, he refused to take anything for any type of injury. It may have helped, but the pain killer addiction was early in his career, not later in his career when it would seem he would need it most. Either way I don't want to get into a Brett Favre arguement, because he retired 3 years ago to me

 

[elocomotive]

LOL - so now we have the core of the Caps' crew all talking about Brett Favre. Kinda funny.

 

[Darkstone42]

HGH and PEDs do more than just allow you to hit the ball a little bit farther. They allow players to get stronger beyond what normal routines would, which also increases their bat speed. It's the increased bat speed that adds a few feet to the fly balls, but it also allows players to spend more time in pitch recognition so that swings are more carefully selected and better placed. HGH and PEDs improve contact rate and contact quality just as much as power.

 

[Automattic]

Let's not forget that all the guys hitting Brett are waay bigger than he is and on more shit!