OT: Braun wins appeal

[CameronFrye]

This was just announced. I think it's great news for baseball and sports in general.

Ryan Braun wins appeal, won't be suspended

 

[calsnowskier]

For Braun: YAY!!

For Baseball: Hmmm. Politics?

For Giants: Darn. That is now 6 tougher games on the schedule.

 

[CameronFrye]

For Braun: YAY!!

For Baseball: Hmmm. Politics?

For Giants: Darn. That is now 6 tougher games on the schedule.

I don't think it's politics with baseball because the official response from MLB was NOT supportive of the decision at all.

This was an independent arbiter's ruling and baseball has to abide by it.

I personally think all the anti-drug zealots have become too powerful for their own good. They have turned the legal system on its head and made guilty the default status. They make the accused prove his innocence, which stands contrary to everything I believe.

Plus, I personally think that steroids and other drugs should be absolutely legal under medical supervision. You have asthma? You take a steroid inhaler. You have a pulled muscle? You should be able to take steroids to help speed the healing process. But that's a whole different thread.

Hooray for Braun.

But you are correct that this will make the games with the Brewers that much more difficult.

 

[filosofy29]

I don't mind this if he truly was innocent. If it's just because he's the reigning NL MVP then I have a huge problem with it. If he was an anonymous reserve middle infielder, would this have still happened (meaning the overturn)?

 

[msgkings322]

I don't think it's politics with baseball because the official response from MLB was NOT supportive of the decision at all.

This was an independent arbiter's ruling and baseball has to abide by it.

I personally think all the anti-drug zealots have become too powerful for their own good. They have turned the legal system on its head and made guilty the default status. They make the accused prove his innocence, which stands contrary to everything I believe.

Plus, I personally think that steroids and other drugs should be absolutely legal under medical supervision. You have asthma? You take a steroid inhaler. You have a pulled muscle? You should be able to take steroids to help speed the healing process. But that's a whole different thread.

Hooray for Braun.

But you are correct that this will make the games with the Brewers that much more difficult.

Repped for a perfect post I agree with 100%

 

[calsnowskier]

I don't think it's politics with baseball because the official response from MLB was NOT supportive of the decision at all.

This was an independent arbiter's ruling and baseball has to abide by it.

I personally think all the anti-drug zealots have become too powerful for their own good. They have turned the legal system on its head and made guilty the default status. They make the accused prove his innocence, which stands contrary to everything I believe.

Plus, I personally think that steroids and other drugs should be absolutely legal under medical supervision. You have asthma? You take a steroid inhaler. You have a pulled muscle? You should be able to take steroids to help speed the healing process. But that's a whole different thread.

Hooray for Braun.

But you are correct that this will make the games with the Brewers that much more difficult.

While I think Steroids have been demonized (I agree they are 99.9% safe if taken responsibly with the assistance of a physician), that is a completely separate argument. Let's agree to agree on that topic.

My skepticism comes from the fact that ALL parties involved are set to gain by his ruling being reversed. Never has a player of his level been caught (punished) in his prime. Manny, Giambi and Palmiero were all WELL past their MVP-caliber seasons when they tested positive. It makes sense for MLB to put out a statement disagreeing with the findings. That is their job. However, having him on the field puts more fannies in the seats. They are just fine with the reversal.

 

[msgkings322]

While I think Steroids have been demonized (I agree they are 99.9% safe if taken responsibly with the assistance of a physician), that is a completely separate argument. Let's agree to agree on that topic.

My skepticism comes from the fact that ALL parties involved are set to gain by his ruling being reversed. Never has a player of his level been caught (punished) in his prime. Manny, Giambi and Palmiero were all WELL past their MVP-caliber seasons when they tested positive. It makes sense for MLB to put out a statement disagreeing with the findings. That is their job. However, having him on the field puts more fannies in the seats. They are just fine with the reversal.

This is actually a better take on the 'politics' of it.

Also why I think Bonds and Clemens will make the HOF after a year or two of 'punishment' where they don't get enough votes.

Rep for you too.

 

[SFGRTB]

Picked up Braun in the 4th round of my fantasy league.

 

[tzill]

The arbiters decision is horseshit. Braun is guilty but evaded the suspension on a technicality. When I read the headline, I was hoping he was innocent.

He's not. He should be sitting out for 50 games just for being an idiot.

Cam, you're "innocent until proven guilty" argument is a red herring. This isn't a court of law, it's a bargained for testing protocol. If there was a presumption of innocence, there wouldn't be testing at all. He got caught and got off on a technicality.

The whole thing blows.

 

[msgkings322]

The arbiters decision is horseshit. Braun is guilty but evaded the suspension on a technicality. When I read the headline, I was hoping he was innocent.

He's not. He should be sitting out for 50 games just for being an idiot.

Cam, you're "innocent until proven guilty" argument is a red herring. This isn't a court of law, it's a bargained for testing protocol. If there was a presumption of innocence, there wouldn't be testing at all. He got caught and got off on a technicality.

The whole thing blows.

I think Cam's point is that the 'whole thing' that blows isn't just Braun but the entire steroids fiasco. The sport should get in the modern world and understand that steroids aren't some demonic super-pill that turns bad players into Babe Ruth.

Guys should be able to use them to heal up, plain and simple.

But yes I agree it blows. I just think the 'it' is much bigger than Ryan Braun.

 

[calsnowskier]

The arbiters decision is horseshit. Braun is guilty but evaded the suspension on a technicality. When I read the headline, I was hoping he was innocent.

He's not. He should be sitting out for 50 games just for being an idiot.

Cam, you're "innocent until proven guilty" argument is a red herring. This isn't a court of law, it's a bargained for testing protocol. If there was a presumption of innocence, there wouldn't be testing at all. He got caught and got off on a technicality.

The whole thing blows.

Lawyers are not allowed to complain about legal technicalities. You guys CREATED legal technicalities.

Wouldn't YOU argue that the process is there for a reason and this if it were not followed, there is room for corruption? Doesn't the onus fall on the league (or the lab) to provide a perfect process?

 

[SF11704]

I also think that Braun used. I don't believe that MLB would have gone after him without something to hang their hat on. I also think that Braun had some very good counsel available to him and they were most likely aware of the technicality. I don't believe they would have entered into something this visible without a solid defense. I agree with what MSG stated. Steriods isn't this demonic super-pill. It has it's place in sports. They should be allowed for medical reasons.

My only remaining question is about how Braun is treated in the future by the 'MLB fanbase'. The same fan base that vilified Bonds for his alleged use of steriods. Wonder if they'll clamor for the MVP award to be taken away ..... maybe they'll settle for an asterick ....

 

[filosofy29]

Lawyers are not allowed to complain about legal technicalities. You guys CREATED legal technicalities.

Wouldn't YOU argue that the process is there for a reason and this if it were not followed, there is room for corruption? Doesn't the onus fall on the league (or the lab) to provide a perfect process?

I complain about your posting and I invited you here.....

 

[CameronFrye]

I think Cam's point is that the 'whole thing' that blows isn't just Braun but the entire steroids fiasco. The sport should get in the modern world and understand that steroids aren't some demonic super-pill that turns bad players into Babe Ruth.

Guys should be able to use them to heal up, plain and simple.

But yes I agree it blows. I just think the 'it' is much bigger than Ryan Braun.

Perfectly stated. I'd rep you for this if I hadn't repped you this morning for another post.

 

[calsnowskier]

I complain about your posting and I invited you here.....

So you admit it?

Case closed!!

(btw... "....."? Are you trying to tell me something?)

 

[filosofy29]

So you admit it?

Case closed!!

(btw... "....."? Are you trying to tell me something?)

I'm trying to tell you that I think you are a swell person. Sometimes.



.....and that I'm an arsehole.

Also, back on topic, for what it's worth, I agree with tzill. It's in the contract/agreement that testing will be done. This isn't a witch hunt.

 

[tzill]

I think Cam's point is that the 'whole thing' that blows isn't just Braun but the entire steroids fiasco. The sport should get in the modern world and understand that steroids aren't some demonic super-pill that turns bad players into Babe Ruth.

Guys should be able to use them to heal up, plain and simple.

But yes I agree it blows. I just think the 'it' is much bigger than Ryan Braun.

I don't necessarily disagree, I'm just disappointed that a Hebrew was that stupid in public. Makes us all look bad.

 

[tzill]

Lawyers are not allowed to complain about legal technicalities. You guys CREATED legal technicalities.

Wouldn't YOU argue that the process is there for a reason and this if it were not followed, there is room for corruption? Doesn't the onus fall on the league (or the lab) to provide a perfect process?

It depends. If we're talking about taking away someone's freedom, then I'm all about the process. If we're talking about a urine sample that was preserved and presented to the lab with the seal unbroken, as part of a negotiated protocol, then my Constitutional Libertarian isn't offended.

To answer your question directly: there seems to be no implication of anything improper going on....Braun simply hit the fucking lottery.

Mostly, I'm just pissed he didn't turn out to be innocent given the headlines.

 

[msgkings322]

I don't necessarily disagree, I'm just disappointed that a Hebrew was that stupid in public. Makes us all look bad.

Agreed, I'm a Heeb too. I was a big Braun fan partly for that reason and now he's just another dumdum.

But in a weird way in might 'help' Bonds. Bonds was a world class a-hole so folks couldn't get enough of vilifying him and 'roids were the opportunity. Braun is a 'good guy' so maybe now some of the eeeevil of roids goes away and Bonds gets in the HOF a little sooner?

 

[Robotech]

While I think Steroids have been demonized (I agree they are 99.9% safe if taken responsibly with the assistance of a physician), that is a completely separate argument. Let's agree to agree on that topic.

My skepticism comes from the fact that ALL parties involved are set to gain by his ruling being reversed. Never has a player of his level been caught (punished) in his prime. Manny, Giambi and Palmiero were all WELL past their MVP-caliber seasons when they tested positive. It makes sense for MLB to put out a statement disagreeing with the findings. That is their job. However, having him on the field puts more fannies in the seats. They are just fine with the reversal.

But even with the reversal, this is still a black eye for Braun and baseball. I would venture to guess that most people still think Braun is guilty. I doubt that MLB is playing politics with it at all. If they really wanted to be underhanded, they would have thrown out Braun's test internally because the testing protocol wasn't completely followed. I guess you could say that having Braun back will bring out more fans because those who want to heckle him will show up in droves.