OT: Baseball player shot dead for "fun of it"

[kramer1]

For fuck sake, Crash. Seriously?

Jesus Fucking Christ....

And this god damned bright orange is fucking ridiculous. Board ruined. Seriously...this shit has got to be changed.

 

[flamingrey]

And since 1982, it has grown to almost 30k, and in 2007 had 1 murder or somethign like that from the article. It has grown exponentially, but the violent crime has dropped considerably.

Your original argument was that there can't be no such town that makes owning a firearm mandatory, as it would be against am America's civil rights. The Civil Right protects a citizen saying they have the right to bare arms. No where does it say that a city government can't enforce a citizen to carry a firearm if written into that city's laws. It protects the citizen from the government takeing away their right to own one, doesn't say the government can't force you to carry one.

Gun Ownership - It's The Law In Kennesaw

The city doesn't enforce citizens to CARRY a gun. It "forces" them to OWN a gun.

Now how exactly does simply owning a gun contribute to the crime rates in that city any different than it contributes anywhere else in the country. If there were a direct correlation, most of the country would be crime free as most of the country is allowed to carry a gun, let alone own one.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Gun Ownership - It's The Law In Kennesaw

The city doesn't enforce citizens to CARRY a gun. It "forces" them to OWN a gun.

Now how exactly does simply owning a gun contribute to the crime rates in that city any different than it contributes anywhere else in the country. If there were a direct correlation, most of the country would be crime free as most of the country is allowed to carry a gun, let alone own one.

Touche. I kept saying carry, but you are right my terminology was off and therefore confusing.

Kennesaw's only crime rate comes near the school where they do not allow people to carry their firearms near a school. There were something like 3 murders not too long ago, and all three came around the school where there was no threat of the bad guy getting shot. However, with the new regulations a lot of states are taking about allowing certain people to carry weapons to school, or at least have them locked up at the school, that may change in Kennesaw also.

I am not even a gun owner, but I completely agree with it. They FORCE the citizens that are head of households to OWN a firearm along with corresponding ammo while inside the limits of Kennesaw.

Let's say you were a bad guy, and you really needed to rob someone to make your living. Are you more than likely to rob a guy who may or may not have a gun, or a guy you KNOW has a gun? It is simple business, you go after the guy who is less of a threat. The guy that does not have a gun is less likely to fight back knowing you have a gun, so no discharge of a weapon usually needed, whereas a guy who does have a gun, is more than likely to use it, potentially causing discharge of firearms. So even if you get out of there as the bad guy, you may have had to kill that poor slob, and now you are are on the hook for a homicide versus just armed robbery.

You go after the easier target, plain and simple. How do you prevent violent crime? You make the action less attractive to the aggressor. Plain and simple.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

For fuck sake, Crash. Seriously?

Jesus Fucking Christ....

And this god damned bright orange is fucking ridiculous. Board ruined. Seriously...this shit has got to be changed.

Why don't you make a fucking point instead of just spouting off stupid shit where people do not know what the fuck you are referring to? I do not know even know what the F seriously refers to man.

And settle down and grow a pair, the site looks good. The black made the site look boring and like every other white/grey/black message board.

If you can handle the white fucking text area staring back at you, you can handle the mother fucking orange to the border, OUTSIDE your visual focus area.

 

[cincygrad]

Touche. I kept saying carry, but you are right my terminology was off and therefore confusing.

Kennesaw's only crime rate comes near the school where they do not allow people to carry their firearms near a school. There were something like 3 murders not too long ago, and all three came around the school where there was no threat of the bad guy getting shot. However, with the new regulations a lot of states are taking about allowing certain people to carry weapons to school, or at least have them locked up at the school, that may change in Kennesaw also.

I am not even a gun owner, but I completely agree with it. They FORCE the citizens that are head of households to OWN a firearm along with corresponding ammo while inside the limits of Kennesaw.

Let's say you were a bad guy, and you really needed to rob someone to make your living. Are you more than likely to rob a guy who may or may not have a gun, or a guy you KNOW has a gun? It is simple business, you go after the guy who is less of a threat. The guy that does not have a gun is less likely to fight back knowing you have a gun, so no discharge of a weapon usually needed, whereas a guy who does have a gun, is more than likely to use it, potentially causing discharge of firearms. So even if you get out of there as the bad guy, you may have had to kill that poor slob, and now you are are on the hook for a homicide versus just armed robbery.

You go after the easier target, plain and simple. How do you prevent violent crime? You make the action less attractive to the aggressor. Plain and simple.

So what happens in your little magic world when everyone has a gun. Crime stops? People don't 'need' things anymore. People don't need to 'make their living' robbing as you mention before? I'd say in this little world the violent injury rate would go up - Not down.

 

[kramer1]

Why don't you make a fucking point instead of just spouting off stupid shit where people do not know what the fuck you are referring to? I do not know even know what the F seriously refers to man.

And settle down and grow a pair, the site looks good. The black made the site look boring and like every other white/grey/black message board.

If you can handle the white fucking text area staring back at you, you can handle the mother fucking orange to the border, OUTSIDE your visual focus area.

I'm pretty sure most people know what I'm referring to.

And this bright orange color is unbearable. It ruins the board.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

So what happens in your little magic world when everyone has a gun. Crime stops? People don't 'need' things anymore. People don't need to 'make their living' robbing as you mention before? I'd say in this little world the violent injury rate would go up - Not down.

Of course crime will not go away, and violent crimes will remain, but I bet in general, across the board, crime levels would drop, or at least, prisons would not be so crowded, because some of these assholes killing and robbing people would not make it back out of the homes alive. Then you of course you persuade those criminals on the fence from possibly taking that chance. Violent offenders that don't care about consequences will never be put off by someone owning firearms. Hopefully though, with firearms in the hands of good people, some of these assholes do not get away with their actions, at least not without a body bag.

And yes, I am all for capital punishment. Except I do not think criminals should die so easily. An eye for an eye. I think you have to have so much indisputable evidence to say without a shadow of a doubt, this guy did this...before you can commit him to death by his own crimes. Otherwise, if evidence is there, he is going to jail, but there was no like video evidence, a reliable eye witness, etc, it is just jail time, not death.

Anyway, those are my opinions, you can agree to disagree if you want. But one town in America made it mandatory for head of households to own and have ammo, and it has become one of the safest cities in America per capa regarding violent crimes. So while it is only one town, out of a whole bunch of towns, it is so far proving to be an effective method to solving some of the crime rate.

Sure, I would like to see it in other towns to see if the trend could continue. One town is just not enough in my opinion.

 

[jwil007]

And since 1982, it has grown to almost 30k, and in 2007 had 1 murder or somethign like that from the article. It has grown exponentially, but the violent crime has dropped considerably.

Your original argument was that there can't be no such town that makes owning a firearm mandatory, as it would be against am America's civil rights. The Civil Right protects a citizen saying they have the right to bare arms. No where does it say that a city government can't enforce a citizen to carry a firearm if written into that city's laws. It protects the citizen from the government taking away their right to own one, doesn't say the government can't force you to carry one.

I live in Atlanta as many of you know and Kennesaw is about 20 mins from my office where I work..here is the deal in the state of Ga all you have to do is pay between $60-$80 bucks and get a Gun Carry Permit..I have 1 just renewed and the new license comes with the look of a license withpic included... You can strap up with your shirt covering it or you can strap up with a holster in plain daylight IN ANY COUNTY IN GEORGIA! Not Just Kennesaw.... Kennesaw is suburbs about 30-35 mins from downtown Atlanta on a good day...and very good for families...Just the traffic to all the work hubs FROM Kennesaw is Atrocious!

 

[DanBengalfan]

kramer, I know it's extra work, but see if this helps:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/color-that-site/

 

[JBUCK66]

God made me lazy so I never bothered with guns or permits.

surely I would have done something stupid with it

 

[BigBlueNation111]

Hang them on national tv. Tomorrow. For the fun of it.

 

[BigBlueNation111]

Why don't you make a fucking point instead of just spouting off stupid shit where people do not know what the fuck you are referring to? I do not know even know what the F seriously refers to man.

And settle down and grow a pair, the site looks good. The black made the site look boring and like every other white/grey/black message board.

If you can handle the white fucking text area staring back at you, you can handle the mother fucking orange to the border, OUTSIDE your visual focus area.

I like the new look!

 

[Vande]

Kennesaw gun ordinance, yet again ? Deltoid

Basically, their math is suspect. The town of Morton Grove (the one Kennesaw was protesting) actually did see a steep decline in burglaries and violent crime. Kennesaw's statistics really didn't change all that much.

Also, for those saying that mandated gun ownership is unconstitutional, they are right... In regards to the federal government. States, on the other hand, have every right to do this. However, it hasn't been done anywhere. The specific towns that have these laws (like Kennesaw), only drafted this legislation as a means of protest. These laws are never enforced, thus their affects on overall crime rates is basically negligible.

And the one comment that actually made me post on this forum instead of the occasional "lurking"...

Let's say you were a bad guy, and you really needed to rob someone to make your living. Are you more than likely to rob a guy who may or may not have a gun, or a guy you KNOW has a gun? It is simple business, you go after the guy who is less of a threat. The guy that does not have a gun is less likely to fight back knowing you have a gun, so no discharge of a weapon usually needed, whereas a guy who does have a gun, is more than likely to use it, potentially causing discharge of firearms. So even if you get out of there as the bad guy, you may have had to kill that poor slob, and now you are are on the hook for a homicide versus just armed robbery.

....

... One of the most absurd notions I have ever read...

Do you realize what you just wrote implies that burglars actually do research into their victim's purchasing history and household items... Before they break into the house? What kind of James Bond criminals do you really think run around this country? Basically, most of these asshats just pick whatever house they think looks "rich", and they break in (preferably when someone isn't home). And if you do have a gun in this scenario, then the chances of people being shot, obviously, increases.

Read this: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058_3

Want to know what will really stop a burglar in his tracks? An alarm. If they know the cops are coming, they're not going to stick around. Easy as that.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Kennesaw gun ordinance, yet again ? Deltoid

Basically, their math is suspect. The town of Morton Grove (the one Kennesaw was protesting) actually did see a steep decline in burglaries and violent crime. Kennesaw's statistics really didn't change all that much.

Also, for those saying that mandated gun ownership is unconstitutional, they are right... In regards to the federal government. States, on the other hand, have every right to do this. However, it hasn't been done anywhere. The specific towns that have these laws (like Kennesaw), only drafted this legislation as a means of protest. These laws are never enforced, thus their affects on overall crime rates is basically negligible.

And the one comment that actually made me post on this forum instead of the occasional "lurking"...



....

... One of the most absurd notions I have ever read...

Do you realize what you just wrote implies that burglars actually do research into their victim's purchasing history and household items... Before they break into the house? What kind of James Bond criminals do you really think run around this country? Basically, most of these asshats just pick whatever house they think looks "rich", and they break in (preferably when someone isn't home). And if you do have a gun in this scenario, then the chances of people being shot, obviously, increases.

Read this: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058_3

Want to know what will really stop a burglar in his tracks? An alarm. If they know the cops are coming, they're not going to stick around. Easy as that.

Unless they know the entire community is armed? I mean, yeah, doesn't take much research to see who is packing in Kennesaw when the answer is 100%. Just saying.

Absurd, perhaps, but not out of the realm of possibility. An alarm obviously helps also, and smart burglers will come back to rob meaningless trinkets when people are not home. People that are rich, keep valueable shit in a safe, therefore, you might need a combination of some kind. Time to beat the husban over the head, gag and bind the wife to the bed, make him think you are going to kill the wife until he gives up the combo. Maybe he might not do that at dinner when the alarm is maybe not set, if he knows the husban might put a bullet in his head. Hell I don't know.

I think everyone should be packing heat, end of discussion.

 

[kramer1]

Unbelievable.

 

[Vande]

Unless they know the entire community is armed? I mean, yeah, doesn't take much research to see who is packing in Kennesaw when the answer is 100%. Just saying.

It isn't. The law is entirely symbolic. I guarantee you that there are people in Kennesaw who don't own a gun. And because it's not 100%, this study applies:

Violent Crimes and Handgun Ownership

Since you clearly didn't read the other articles I posted, I'll summarize this one for you. It basically states that areas with higher rates of handgun ownership have higher rates of homicide. More guns tends to lead to more gun related deaths. And while a causal relationship between these two factors can not be 100% proven, it at least debunks the myth that more guns in the hands of "good" people reduces crime rates.

An alarm obviously helps also, and smart burglers will come back to rob meaningless trinkets when people are not home. People that are rich, keep valueable shit in a safe, therefore, you might need a combination of some kind. Time to beat the husban over the head, gag and bind the wife to the bed, make him think you are going to kill the wife until he gives up the combo. Maybe he might not do that at dinner when the alarm is maybe not set, if he knows the husban might put a bullet in his head. Hell I don't know.

"Hell I don't know." - That much is clear.

My only response to this little HBO special you have written a script for is that you should turn off your television and focus on reality. I think I've actually seen that movie before.

Absurd, perhaps, but not out of the realm of possibility.

If it's absurd, then why bring it up? Your little example is so utterly ridiculous that it basically shows just how little understanding of the real issue you truly grasp.

I think everyone should be packing heat, end of discussion.

I'm moving to Canada...........

 

[UDFlyers90]

I can assure you that these dumb hicks with guns in this county are far more likely to shoot themselves or family members than your hypothetical burglar. Gun nuts piss me off.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I don't even own a gun, I just agree with it.

Everyone should have protection. I can't believe that a good person who has a gun all of a sudden wants to become a criminal and kill someone, based on your statistics right? You sure those areas with guns are not just occupied by more violent people, criminals? Remember, guns do not kill people, people kill people. So statistically, I am sure there is more violence where guns are at, because hopefully some of these asshole criminals are getting shot too. Or perhaps, there are just more criminals per capa in these areas.

Are you guys just advocates for criminals having guns? I mean, criminals are going to get guns whether it is legal or not, they are criminals. It seems about right that the criminal should be the only one protected when committing a crime.

I do not know all the statistics, but I can bet, that I will be better protected armed, than you will be not armed. If you believe you are safer without a gun, by all means, don't own one. But to sit there and think that guns are too dangerous to be used to protect yourself and your family, you are a retard.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

It isn't. The law is entirely symbolic. I guarantee you that there are people in Kennesaw who don't own a gun. And because it's not 100%, this study applies:

I would not have bothered rebutting this, but since you say you can GUARANTEE IT, would you care to provide your proof? I mean, with such a confident statement such as that, I would be a moron to not accept your without a doubt, 100% lock, guaranteed proof, now wouldn't I?

 

[Vande]

Everyone should have protection. I can't believe that a good person who has a gun all of a sudden wants to become a criminal and kill someone, based on your statistics right? You sure those areas with guns are not just occupied by more violent people, criminals?

The health risk of having a gun in the home | MinnPost

Good people with guns don't become criminals, but they're still more likely to shoot a member of their own family than an actual home invader. The research on this is incontrovertible. If you own a gun, you are increasing the risk to you and your family of being involved in a fatal, gun-related accident. Period.

Remember, guns do not kill people, people kill people.

The most over-used, over-simplified, ignorant line ever put forth by the NRA. No, guns do not kill people. However, they do tend to help.

So statistically, I am sure there is more violence where guns are at, because hopefully some of these asshole criminals are getting shot too. Or perhaps, there are just more criminals per capa in these areas.

You know the common theme I'm seeing here? Your entire viewpoint on guns is either based on what you've heard from the NRA (or other gun-nuts), or you're just making assumptions. You could very easily check on the validity of each of your "arguments" with a simple google search if you cared enough to do so. Simply put, I think I've done enough research for you to tell that this is just absurd.

Are you guys just advocates for criminals having guns? I mean, criminals are going to get guns whether it is legal or not, they are criminals. It seems about right that the criminal should be the only one protected when committing a crime.

"Why create a law if criminals are just going to break it."

That is the argument that you just made. I guess we should just do away with all laws because people may choose to break them. Besides, if you bothered to read anything I've linked for you, you'd realize that good people owning guns tends to lead to more good people getting shot.

I do not know all the statistics,

*sigh*

There's a very simple way to remedy that.... Maybe.... Look it up?

How does anyone become so zealous about a belief without even knowing all the facts that said belief entails? I will never understand that....

...but I can bet, that I will be better protected armed, than you will be not armed. If you believe you are safer without a gun, by all means, don't own one. But to sit there and think that guns are too dangerous to be used to protect yourself and your family, you are a retard.

The statistics show that my family will be safer with zero protection than if we had a single gun in the house. Now, considering the fact that we have a basic security system, I feel very safe.

This country would be far better off if people formed their opinions based on verifiable evidence rather than assumptions. I can argue with you until I'm blue in the face, but ultimately, only you can free yourself from your own ignorance. Reading would be a good start.