OT: Again Christmas Bombings in Nigeria

[clyde_carbon]

Love your posts Clyde. Rep.

I find it ridiculous for anyone to attack another's faith by attacking the "Holy Scripture" of that faith. One can just as easily find violent passages from The Torah/Bible that, if taken out of context, would lead an ignorant person to feel justified to hate/harm others.

For example: “When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)

And you can find passages from The New Testament that, if read literally and without context, support slavery, subjugation of women, violence, etc.

At the end of the day, I think of the Muslims (and Mormons, Jews, and Catholics for that matter) I have known in my life. The overwhelming majority of them have been cool, and treat me with kindness. Their actions exhibit humility, discipline, and respect.

It is my interaction with Muslims that has led me to have a positive view of Islam. No verses/tragic bombings will change that.

Well said!

 

[grayghost668]

`if it's not happening here it's no concern of mine

 

[tzill]

`if it's not happening here it's no concern of mine

Spoken like a true sack of douche.

Beat it, Shitsburgh fan.

 

[NinerSickness]

Because it says in the Quran to bomb churches on Christmas Eve? Don't let extremists dilute your common sense.

Obviously enough Muslims believe you're wrong that killing in the name of Islam now dwarfs any other kind of ideological killing in terms of numbers all over the world (especially if you include "honour" killings).

And the term you used, "Islamaphobs" is as illogical as the term "homophobs." I believe sodomy is immoral and exposes the body to a multitude of diseases it wasn't meant to fight (even in healthy people). Right or wrong that is what I believe, so let's just leave it at that. But if I were "homophobic" it would mean that I'm AFRAID of homosexuals. I'm not. I have a moral objection. The same applies with the word "Islamaphobs?"
What you're looking for is a word that would imply someone misinterprets the Quran (even though I don't believe they are). Maybe "misbeliever." It doesn't have the same ring to it you might like, but it's more accurate.

 

[notmyfault]

`if it's not happening here it's no concern of mine

So you would have ignored the Holocaust?

 

[I_am_1z]

Obviously enough Muslims believe you're wrong that killing in the name of Islam now dwarfs any other kind of ideological killing in terms of numbers all over the world (especially if you include "honour" killings).

And the term you used, "Islamaphobs" is as illogical as the term "homophobs." I believe sodomy is immoral and exposes the body to a multitude of diseases it wasn't meant to fight (even in healthy people). Right or wrong that is what I believe, so let's just leave it at that. But if I were "homophobic" it would mean that I'm AFRAID of homosexuals. I'm not. I have a moral objection. The same applies with the word "Islamaphobs?"
What you're looking for is a word that would imply someone misinterprets the Quran (even though I don't believe they are). Maybe "misbeliever." It doesn't have the same ring to it you might like, but it's more accurate.

I see this thread has turned homo and terribly misinformed

 

[NinerSickness]

I see this thread has turned homo and terribly misinformed

I tried to emphasize that I wasn't trying to change the subject. I was responding to the pseudo-suffix "Phob" and throwing in another form thereof. "phobic" means something of which one has a phobia. It doesn't mean one objects to something. Reading passages from the Quran that say things like "slay infidels wherever you find them" and concluding that Islam condones the killing of non-muslims does not mean one has a phobia of Muslims. It's really one of the more hollow ways of spinning things politically.

I was also making the point that a very large number of people on earth like Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda the Taliban and people who either support or stand idly by these groups, believe the Quran condones the killing of non-Muslims and "honour killings."

 

[arsenal6106]

Just curious, What was the point of posting this article in a football thread?

 

[NinerSickness]

Just curious, What was the point of posting this article in a football thread?

"OT:" was in the title. It means "off topic." Obviously people here cared enough about it to read the article. It was the #1 news story of the day.

 

[boomtown]

Depending on who you read her age ranged from 9 years old to 15 years old at time of marriage. There is no concrete evidence pointing in either direction. Just extremists on both sides trying to paint their off-base argument in the wrong light.

Quite frankly, your post is disgusting. You're just as bad at the terrorist leaders who cherry-pick verses out of the Quran to recruit and brainwash young Muslims by making it seem that Islam and Muslims are being persecuted. It's not hard to go on google and type "violent verses from Quran" and get what you posted. Please note, however, that every verse comes from a context and a story. Not that I expect you to read about them, though.

Just as easily though, I can post hadiths that are pro peace:


“Whoever kills a person who has a truce with the Muslims will never smell the fragrance of Paradise.” (Saheeh Muslim)

“Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against the person on the Day of Judgment.” (Abu Dawud)

"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)

"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)

"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)

"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)

"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)

Here's a specific verse from the Quran stipulating that monastaries, churches, and synagogues MUST be respected:

…if God had not driven some people back by means of others, monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques, where God's name is mentioned much, would have been pulled down and destroyed. God will certainly help those who help Him-God is All-Strong, Almighty. (Qur'an, 22:40)

im just as bad as the terrorist leaders? and im off base? i havent suggested the killing of anyone and if you wanna talk about disgusting posts, throwing me in with terrorist leaders certainly qualifies this as one

 

[boomtown]

now we can talk numbers of my verses versus yours...and the fact that you won't find a verse where jesus EVER ordered his followers to murder unbelievers

 

[NinerSickness]

That was a seriously weak and stupid arguement about Deut 7:1. God told specific people to wage war against seven specific peoples and to take the land as their own. How could a person possibly try to use that passage to say it's ok to kill people who are not the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites or Jebusites of thousands of years ago? Those nations were destroyed thousands of years ago.

The Bible never once condones murdering someone for their religion. That is a fact. Things like capital puishment for certain crimes and telling specific leaders to wage war with specific peoples does not, even remotely, equal giving a general command to kill anyone for what religion they practice. That would be what you call lying. Look at the apostle Paul; he went out preaching the gospel to foreign countries; he didn't say to kill the people if they didn't believe. They were permitted to shake the dust of that town off their shoes if the people didn't believe; I suppose some of that dust could get in someone's eyes though.

Also there is no Christian equivalent to Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda the Taliban. At least be intellectually honest about this.

 

[boomtown]

That was a seriously weak and stupid arguement about Deut 7:1. God told specific people to wage war against seven specific peoples and to take the land as their own. How could a person possibly try to use that passage to say it's ok to kill people who are not the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites or Jebusites of thousands of years ago? Those nations were destroyed thousands of years ago.

The Bible never once condones murdering someone for their religion. That is a fact. Things like capital puishment for certain crimes and telling specific leaders to wage war with specific peoples does not, even remotely, equal giving a general command to kill anyone for what religion they practice. That would be what you call lying. Look at the apostle Paul; he went out preaching the gospel to foreign countries; he didn't say to kill the people if they didn't believe. They were permitted to shake the dust of that town off their shoes if the people didn't believe; I suppose some of that dust could get in someone's eyes though.

Also there is no Christian equivalent to Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda the Taliban. At least be intellectually honest about this.

he won't be honest...its too fashionable to be american and guilty...as if we are the only country where ppl should be held accountable for being complete shits...a violent, dangerous ideology is such wherever it is found...take this "cultural acceptance" to its logical conclusion and start defending the kkk and aryan nation

 

[Arete Tzu]

That was a seriously weak and stupid arguement about Deut 7:1. God told specific people to wage war against seven specific peoples and to take the land as their own. How could a person possibly try to use that passage to say it's ok to kill people who are not the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites or Jebusites of thousands of years ago? Those nations were destroyed thousands of years ago.

The Bible never once condones murdering someone for their religion. That is a fact. Things like capital puishment for certain crimes and telling specific leaders to wage war with specific peoples does not, even remotely, equal giving a general command to kill anyone for what religion they practice. That would be what you call lying. Look at the apostle Paul; he went out preaching the gospel to foreign countries; he didn't say to kill the people if they didn't believe. They were permitted to shake the dust of that town off their shoes if the people didn't believe; I suppose some of that dust could get in someone's eyes though.

Also there is no Christian equivalent to Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda the Taliban. At least be intellectually honest about this.

The same get's done with the Quran. It's funny, I think you just use the same justification that cylde did but applied to Christianity. He said some of the stuff Quoted in the Quran applied to specific events in history. The bible's genocide of the Amalekites was just a specific order from god to kill specific people, as well as the things you listed above, right?

You are wrong about your claim that Christians have no no equivalent groups. Maybe none who want it with America, but they are out there. For example the Lord's Resistance Army, we've come down on them, but they aren't REAL enemies, and of course the response to them is always "they aren't real Christians" they don't follow OUR Christianity. They are mislead corrupted people. Right? Sounds like something a Muslim would say to justify their religion, right? India had the National Liberation Front of Tripura, Ireland has had plenty of religious tension that includes terrorism. I'm brain farting the name, but there is currently a group in the UK that is fighting Muslims to keep Europe white and christian, they beat up random Muslims they see in the streets, there is similar groups in Russia as well.

Some of the christian ones haven't attained as much political power as Hamas, but they are defiantly trying, and they are every bit as scary as Muslim extremists.

In America we have stuff like you see in Jesus Camp, we laugh at it and don't take it seriously, but how much of that is because we are familiar with them? They are overweight American Christians, they don't look threatening at all, but the ideology they are spreading is the most susceptible to the type of Psychotic leader who builds these groups, the train their kids to be soldiers for god. We laugh at the nutcase Westboro Baptist church people, they aren't "our" Christians either, just crazy people.

 

[sayheykid1]

The same get's done with the Quran. It's funny, I think you just use the same justification that cylde did but applied to Christianity. He said some of the stuff Quoted in the Quran applied to specific events in history. The bible's genocide of the Amalekites was just a specific order from god to kill specific people, as well as the things you listed above, right?

You are wrong about your claim that Christians have no no equivalent groups. Maybe none who want it with America, but they are out there. For example the Lord's Resistance Army, we've come down on them, but they aren't REAL enemies, and of course the response to them is always "they aren't real Christians" they don't follow OUR Christianity. They are mislead corrupted people. Right? Sounds like something a Muslim would say to justify their religion, right? India had the National Liberation Front of Tripura, Ireland has had plenty of religious tension that includes terrorism. I'm brain farting the name, but there is currently a group in the UK that is fighting Muslims to keep Europe white and christian, they beat up random Muslims they see in the streets, there is similar groups in Russia as well.

Some of the christian ones haven't attained as much political power as Hamas, but they are defiantly trying, and they are every bit as scary as Muslim extremists.

In America we have stuff like you see in Jesus Camp, we laugh at it and don't take it seriously, but how much of that is because we are familiar with them? They are overweight American Christians, they don't look threatening at all, but the ideology they are spreading is the most susceptible to the type of Psychotic leader who builds these groups, the train their kids to be soldiers for god. We laugh at the nutcase Westboro Baptist church people, they aren't "our" Christians either, just crazy people.

Well said

 

[Arete Tzu]

he won't be honest...its too fashionable to be american and guilty...as if we are the only country where ppl should be held accountable for being complete shits...a violent, dangerous ideology is such wherever it is found...take this "cultural acceptance" to its logical conclusion and start defending the kkk and aryan nation

American guilt? How? Because we aren't as hateful toward them as you'd like us to be? Again there is 1.2 billion Muslims. When our war started, the estimated number of Al-Qaeda was 500–1,000. Taliban around 35-45 thousand. I know Hamas and Muslim Brotherhood are big I couldn't get numbers with a quick search, if you know post it, then compare that number to 1.2 billion.

Do you personally know any Muslims? I don't understand why it would be so hard to believe all (or even a 51% majority) Muslims aren't monsters? I know some they are good people, not extreme at all, Taliban would hate them. One family I know eats pork chops once a week, I make fun of them for it all the time.

It's like the lowes controversy, people are actually mad that the show doesn't take time to show Muslim terrorists. Which shows that for some of you Muslims show as anything other than terrorists is a lie and propaganda, no way the families shown there could not be terrorists because out of 1.2 billion even a TV cast is to large to be believable, right?

 

[Arete Tzu]

Muslim:C9B1N33 “The Prophet said: ‘I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.’”
Muslim:C10B1N176 “Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a man and he said: ‘There is no god but Allah,’ but I attacked him with a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle about this. The Messenger said: ‘Did he profess “There is no god but Allah,” and even then you killed him?’ I said: ‘He made a profession out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.’ The Prophet said: ‘Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had professed truly or not?’”
Muslim:C20B1N4597 “The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: ‘There is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam. When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should readily do so.’”
Muslim:C28B20N4628 “Allah has undertaken to provide for one who leaves his home to fight for His Cause and to affirm the truth of His word; Allah will either admit him to Paradise or will bring him back home with his reward and booty.”
Muslim:C28B20N4629 “The Messenger said: ‘One who is wounded in the Way of Allah—and Allah knows best who is wounded in His Way—will appear on the Day of Judgment with his wound still bleeding. The color (of its discharge) will be blood, (but) its smell will be musk.’”
Muslim:C34B20N4652-3 “The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over The Enemy: A man came to the Holy Prophet and said: ‘Who is the best of men?’ He replied: ‘A man who fights staking his life and spending his wealth in Allah’s Cause.’”
Muslim:C42B20N4684 “A desert Arab came to the Prophet and said: ‘Messenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high) position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?’ The Messenger of Allah said: ‘Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the Way of Allah.’”
Muslim:C53B20N4717 “The Prophet said: ‘This religion will continue to exist, and a group of people from the Muslims will continue to fight for its protection until the Hour is established.’”
Bukhari:V5B59N288 “I witnessed a scene that was dearer to me than anything I had ever seen. Aswad came to the Prophet while Muhammad was urging the Muslims to fight the pagans. He said, ‘We shall fight on your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you.’ I saw the face of the Prophet getting bright with happiness, for that saying delighted him.”
Bukhari:V5B59N290 “The believers who did not join the Ghazwa [Islamic raid or invasion] and those who fought are not equal in reward.”
Qur’an:2:193 “Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers.”
Qur’an:2:217 “They question you concerning fighting in the sacred month. Say: ‘Fighting therein is a grave (matter); but to prevent access to Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, to expel its members, and polytheism are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they make you renegades from your religion. If any of you turn back and die in unbelief, your works will be lost and you will go to Hell. Surely those who believe and leave their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause have the hope of Allah’s mercy.”
Qur’an:2:244 “Fight in Allah’s Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all.”

When half of what your prophet says is "taken out of context" it might be time to find a new one

What do you think about this site? Murder in the Bible

I'd say it's bias with a hateful nature. It has some out of context stuff. Since most of it is in the Old Testament, does that half fall under your suggestion?

It's basically what you do here.

 

[NinerSickness]

The same get's done with the Quran. It's funny, I think you just use the same justification that cylde did but applied to Christianity. He said some of the stuff Quoted in the Quran applied to specific events in history. The bible's genocide of the Amalekites was just a specific order from god to kill specific people, as well as the things you listed above, right?

Bold is correct. I believe in being clear and honest about what people's beliefs are above all else. I don't care if it promotes or marginalizes what I believe; honesty is more important than popularity. The OT records God ordering the Hebrews to completely wipe out the Amalekites. The Quran, however, has a general command to all Muslims: "Slay the infidel wherever you find them," among many other verses. Groups like Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda the Taliban believe this means they are commanded by God to kill anyone who rejects Islam. Right or wrong a very large number of people believe this. I don't believe the Quran, but I can't say these groups are distorting their scripture. They're not. That would be as if I said the Bible, which I do believe, doesn't say God commanded genocide to establish Isreal. It would be dishonest.

You are wrong about your claim that Christians have no no equivalent groups.

No I'm not.

Maybe none who want it with America, but they are out there. For example the Lord's Resistance Army

Real or unreal, mislead or true believers... this proves my point. I said "equivalent" of those groups. You gave mostly accurate examples, but it's like comparing a Hot Wheel to a Hummer.

India had the National Liberation Front of Tripura,

See above.

Ireland has had plenty of religious tension that includes terrorism.,

This one isn't even a good comparision even on a tiny scale. The conflicts in Irleland had nothing to do with killing people for what faith they practice. That was a cluster F of all kinds of tentions including political ones. They didn't give a crap about how people in other countries worship.

Everyone knows that there are so-called Christians who have been terrorists. What I'm saying is that they are so absolutely marginal in size compared to ENORMOUS number of Muslims who legitimately have believed that Jihad should be done through all means including the sword for the last 1400 years. This is because it's impossible to convince anyone with a clue that Christianity includes any command to kill someone else because of their religion. It's MUCH easier to convince a Muslim of that.

 

[NinerSickness]

What do you think about this site? Murder in the Bible

I'd say it's bias with a hateful nature. It has some out of context stuff. Since most of it is in the Old Testament, does that half fall under your suggestion?

It's basically what you do here.

Well it's biassed, but from a quick glance it's mostly accurate. In Judaism there are about 606 or so laws from Moses; quite a few of them include the death penalty if broken. The OT also includes an account of wars waged to establish the boundaries of Isreal. What you won't find, however (not even remotely) is any command to kill a non-Jew because he's not a Jew. There are specific commands how to treat an "alien" (non-Jew) if he lives in the nation of Isreal as well.

Christianity (the NT) commands believers to preach the gospel; and likewise there isn't even a remote connection to anything said in the NT to killing someone for what religion they practice.

Like I said before: I'm not going to lie about my faith to make ot more popular like a lot of people do. I believe in being intellectually honest first and foremost.

 

[sayheykid1]

Is your whole point
Islam bad
Christianity good
?