OT: 6th grader brings gun to school

[spacedoodoopistol]

Well considering you can't go to the local gun stores and buy an automatic legally I don't see what more you want. I agree with banning auto. I agree we don't need 100 round mags. But people say assault rifles and have no clue what they are talking about.

Do you know what you're talking about though? Some assault rifles are semi-auto, and really "assault rifle" is a non-specific term so not sure how you're defining it. That Bushmaster can get off six shots in a second, but its not auto. Those Glocks can fire very fast if you have a quick trigger finger as well. That's all unnecessary.

 

[Arete Tzu]

It is, and maybe I needed to be clearer....Australia's gun ban highly regulates the most dangerous weapons and elements - fast firing, and big magazines - that allow people to do excessive damage when they snap. The weapons whose limited practical utility cannot justify the potential that they will get into the wrong hands and cause destruction.

Yeah, you can go kill people with a revolver too, but it is much more difficult to do a ton of damage with them, especially for the untrained crazies that generally perpetrate these crimes. Its the rapid-fire elements of assault weapons or the like that allow them to really do damage, and these rapid-fire elements have very little practical usage. Cost benefit ratio for these weapons is very bad.

yea I'm all for an assault rifle ban and heavy regulation. if people break those laws they should get heavy punishment as well. I just hate when the gun talk goes overboard from any side. Both NRA and entirely anti gun are annoying.

 

[abaskin18]

Do you know what you're talking about though? Some assault rifles are semi-auto, and really "assault rifle" is a non-specific term so not sure how you're defining it. That Bushmaster can get off six shots in a second, but its not auto. Those Glocks can fire very fast if you have a quick trigger finger as well. That's all unnecessary.

Fun, though. I'm not under the illusion that it's anything less selfish than that.

 

[spacedoodoopistol]

Yup, they want their guns and everyone else can live with the obvious fallout.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

The president spoke recently about working on passing gun legislation, and there is something he mentioned that I think deserves noting:

Obama also wants his team to consider ways to improve mental health resources and address ways to create a culture that doesn't promote violence.

Banning guns will never work to stop violence unless there is a cultural shift as well, otherwise the same kind of mass murdering rampages will continue for eternity. Just ask the many victims of Anders Breivik.

 

[abaskin18]

The president spoke recently about working on passing gun legislation, and there is something he mentioned that I think deserves noting:



Banning guns will never work to stop violence unless there is a cultural shift as well, otherwise the same kind of mass murdering rampages will continue for eternity. Just ask the many victims of Anders Breivik.

Agreed. Efforts should be made on all fronts. One front should not be ignored because one feels another front is a bigger part of the problem.

The roadblock to getting something done in my eyes is that one side wants to talk about all factors BUT gun control. Worse yet, I fully believe their motivations to talk about those other factors are done to distract people from guns as part of the problem as well. I'll just say it, I think that's why you posted this. As I noted above, I feel these actions are selfish beyond anything I thought I could comprehend.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

Agreed. Efforts should be made on all fronts. One front should not be ignored because one feels another front is a bigger part of the problem.

The roadblock to getting something done in my eyes is that one side wants to talk about all factors BUT gun control. Worse yet, I fully believe their motivations to talk about those other factors are done to distract people from guns as part of the problem as well. I'll just say it, I think that's why you posted this. As I noted above, I feel these actions are selfish beyond anything I thought I could comprehend.

Fair enough, but you're wrong. I studied sociology, so my point of view is focused on trying to understand societies behavioral motivators. People don't wake up and decide to kill another human being BECAUSE they have guns. Guns make it easier to act on fucked up ideas, but a rational person isn't going to be compelled to kill because they have a gun. Guns don't talk to people.

edit: and I agee with everything you said up until you focused on me.

 

[clyde_carbon]

It might make it more difficult but the results are still the same whether it was simple or not.

I'm not against some restrictions like banning large clip and magazine sizes but I don't see any point in a gun ban or major restrictions because you're not addressing the heart of the actual problem in that there was something seriously wrong with the person's brain.

I mean maybe he can't obtain the guns so he decides to pull a Timothy McVeigh instead and blows the whole school up with a truck bomb. Or load up a bag full of pipe bombs, try to gas the entire school, or etc.

My point is crazy people if they are bent on killing a lot of people are going to figure out a way to do it with or without a gun.

So injecting more guns into a society filled with psychopaths is an answer? Should we barricade military style every house on every block? Should we put a gun in every classroom and every cubicle in every office?

 

[DoobieKeebler]

Agreed. Efforts should be made on all fronts. One front should not be ignored because one feels another front is a bigger part of the problem.

The roadblock to getting something done in my eyes is that one side wants to talk about all factors BUT gun control. Worse yet, I fully believe their motivations to talk about those other factors are done to distract people from guns as part of the problem as well. I'll just say it, I think that's why you posted this. As I noted above, I feel these actions are selfish beyond anything I thought I could comprehend.

And to expand, I feel that many people (you included) are ignoring the other half of the coin by only talking about gun restriction. I'd be with you if you had a multi-pronged approach to minimizing violence, but I'm put off by how overly simplistic many people view gun control, ie: "get rid of guns and everything will be sunshine & lollipops!"

 

[Rvnight18]

Do you know what you're talking about though? Some assault rifles are semi-auto, and really "assault rifle" is a non-specific term so not sure how you're defining it. That Bushmaster can get off six shots in a second, but its not auto. Those Glocks can fire very fast if you have a quick trigger finger as well. That's all unnecessary.

What cut people's fingers off? People say assault and jump right to automatic. It has been said several times in this thread. If the gun is semi auto I have no problem with it. Now 100 round mags I understand.

 

[TobyTyler]

The president spoke recently about working on passing gun legislation, and there is something he mentioned that I think deserves noting:



Banning guns will never work to stop violence unless there is a cultural shift as well, otherwise the same kind of mass murdering rampages will continue for eternity. Just ask the many victims of Anders Breivik.

Yep. And that goes back to what Memphis said earlier in the thread.

 

[Rvnight18]

And to expand, I feel that many people (you included) are ignoring the other half of the coin by only talking about gun restriction. I'd be with you if you had a multi-pronged approach to minimizing violence, but I'm put off by how overly simplistic many people view gun control, ie: "get rid of guns and everything will be sunshine & lollipops!"

This

 

[DoobieKeebler]

Yep. And that goes back to what Memphis said earlier in the thread.

I've repeated the same sentiment since the 1st page.

 

[TobyTyler]

I've repeated the same sentiment since the 1st page.

Yep. Its culture and availability that are the main culprits. That is tough to dispute. The dispute seems to be how to go about rectifying those two things.

 

[abaskin18]

And to expand, I feel that many people (you included) are ignoring the other half of the coin by only talking about gun restriction. I'd be with you if you had a multi-pronged approach to minimizing violence, but I'm put off by how overly simplistic many people view gun control, ie: "get rid of guns and everything will be sunshine & lollipops!"

I'm all for a discussion on mental health solutions. I just jumped into the conversation as we were discussing firearms specifically. Then whenever a pro-gun person was backed into a corner about assault weapons they pivoted to another topic. You've incorrectly assumed that the only part of the solution I see is "get the guns!"

• Banning Assault Weapons (once we agree where that category begins and ends. If it did not include semi-autos like the Bushmaster .223 the ban would need to be extended to include that category as well).
• Increased Access to mental health resources.
• Increased background checks, mental screenings (with frequent re-testing), extended waiting periods required to purchase firearms.
• Closing the gun show loophole

There's my multipronged approach, in no particular order of impact and importance. Where would you like to start?

As for your made up quotation, I cannot fathom how you got that from anything anyone has said here in this thread.

 

[DoobieKeebler]

Yep. Its culture and availability that are the main culprits. That is tough to dispute. The dispute seems to be how to go about rectifying those two things.

Agreed.


Is this where we all join hands and start singing Kumbaya?

 

[abaskin18]

Yep. Its culture and availability that are the main culprits. That is tough to dispute. The dispute seems to be how to go about rectifying those two things.

If only.

 

[clyde_carbon]

Agreed.


Is this where we all join hands and start singing Kumbaya?

Stop blaming culture. Everyone knows our culture is fucked up. But until you have a medicine for it, don't use that as an argument.

Taking away guns is easier than trying to fix culture.

 

[I_am_1z]

The Curious Case of 1z

Once upon a time the hunter got lazy. The hunter told himself, "Why should I go out and hunt when I could stay in?" The hunter happened to be one of the pioneers in his field of Air Infantry (pretend such a field exists). He grafted on a barrel to an aircraft, which he deployed to hunt the wild creatures in his area. He posted the schematics on how to make one of these drones onto a gun advocate website. At first all was good, but then it got into the wrong hands and a slue of killings began taking place. These "drones" were no match for any kind of gun since they would sneak up and kill people from a distance, which made them perfect for hunting. The only times you really see them dropped down were by other drones.

Where should this story head next?

Should the government outlaw and seize as many drones as possible?

OR

Should the government give the right for everyone to have a drone to protect themselves?

 

[DoobieKeebler]

I'm all for a discussion on mental health solutions. I just jumped into the conversation as we were discussing firearms specifically. Then whenever a pro-gun person was backed into a corner about assault weapons they pivoted to another topic. You've incorrectly assumed that the only part of the solution I see is "get the guns!"

• Banning Assault Weapons (once we agree where that category begins and ends. If it did not include semi-autos like the Bushmaster .223 the ban would need to be extended to include that category as well).
• Increased Access to mental health resources.
• Increased background checks, mental screenings (with frequent re-testing), extended waiting periods required to purchase firearms.
• Closing the gun show loophole

There's my multipronged approach, in no particular order of impact and importance. Where would you like to start?

As for your made up quotation, I cannot fathom how you got that from anything anyone has said here in this thread.

My "made up" quotation was me being facetious. You should know that.

As for your list, I'd support everything you've put forth in this post. I've never needed to use the aforementioned Bushmaster, or rifles akin to it, so I can easily sweep that under the "ban it" rug because it does not affect me, though I am interested in hearing what people who use it have to say, but that is a discussion for another day. I also agree with your opinions on mental health check ups and don't see why extended waiting periods would be bad as long as it serves a purpose.

In going further than what you have listed, ideally I would like to find a way for potential gun owners, in a reasonable way, have to either learn, or prove their ability to responsibly handle a gun, though I struggle with how I would work that out in the real world. And heck, I'd almost want to make gun-safes mandatory, though have no idea how that would be enforced.

Gun control is a really difficult subject to think of because it is so complicated, and I think the crazies on the extremes of both sides ruin it for the rest of us because someone like me ends up arguing over semantics and hypotheticals.