Ongoing NHL thread - Part III

[Puck082]

Greiss was 3rd overall in save percentage last year. I'm not arguing he's an all star or even a better than good goalie. But the guy had a pretty good year.

He was 5th actually. 3rd in the playoffs.

 

[Puck082]

Limited starts, blew up in the second round against a TB team that was sans one of the game's best snipers.

I wouldn't waste another year of a superstar's prime on the hope he can do it again full-time in the regular season then come correct in the playoffs.

Maybe...but like I said, there are much bigger needs right now.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

JT can negotiate an extension after this season. If there's no growth, or worse there's regression, what the hell is Garth Snow going to sell him on? "Oh we've got all these prospects in the pipeline just like we did two years into your career and those all panned out great, right Johnny?"

If the Isles don't contend this year I would put the chances of the Isles dealing him next summer extremely high because there would be a better chance than not that they lose him for nothing the following summer.

I thought he was going to Toronto at a discount to play with Stamkos and Matthews...

 

[DragonfromTO]

Not talking winning a Cup, just contending for one.

Without a superstar goalie, there's a pretty good chance the Isles will be the longest shot to even make it out of their own division. Murray, Holtby, Lundqvist, Schneider, Bobrovsky...you would put either of Halak or Griess above those 5? If Neuvirth puts in a repeat performance in Philly that could be another. I just think they're doomed going with what they have.

Even if that's true, why is that such a deal breaker? There are plenty of examples where the team with the weaker goalie has won the 7 game series...I mean, that's essentially why the Cup winning goalies have been so random

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

"Old man Jagr and some kids" managed to score more goals than 24 teams last season.

22. And if they scored 10 fewer goals it would've been 15. Not the largest margins here.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I thought he was going to Toronto at a discount to play with Stamkos and Matthews...

TBH, if the Leafs sign Stamkos then have to re-sign all these kids at some point I don't think they can squeeze in JT.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Even if that's true, why is that such a deal breaker? There are plenty of examples where the team with the weaker goalie has won the 7 game series...I mean, that's essentially why the Cup winning goalies have been so random

Guess the Leafs should've stuck with Bernier then.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

You can point to a Cup-winning team or two in the past decade who have won the Cup without a star goalie, but you can point to far more teams that were considered Cup contenders that got their asses handed to them because of their goaltending. Anaheim, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Washington, SJ, Ottawa and god knows how many I'm missing all had teams capable of winning the Cup in the past decade that folded early because of their goaltending issues.

I don't understand how an argument can be made for it being even remotely inconsequential.

 

[esls79]

You can point to a Cup-winning team or two in the past decade who have won the Cup without a star goalie, but you can point to far more teams that were considered Cup contenders that got their asses handed to them because of their goaltending. Anaheim, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Washington, SJ, Ottawa and god knows how many I'm missing all had teams capable of winning the Cup in the past decade that folded early because of their goaltending issues.

I don't understand how an argument can be made for it being even remotely inconsequential.

Those Ducks and Caps team the blame is on the coach though.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

dont think the canucks have anything the Habs want ... price (not carey) might go down if Oilers bow out and keep their pick and Dubois still sitting there at 5

 

[dash]

Habs want Bo Horvat included in a PK Subban trade, that's a non-starter right there.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Those Ducks and Caps team the blame is on the coach though.

"Show me a good coach, I'll show you a good goalie" - Don Cherry

-Michael Scott

 

[dash]

Speaking of goalies...

George Richards@GeorgeRichards
(Panthers) have traded Rocco Grimaldi, get back Reto Berra...

 

[DragonfromTO]

Guess the Leafs should've stuck with Bernier then.

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that they could have. The tipping point there it seemed was that Babcock had simply lost whatever faith he had in him after his early shitty stretch (and might have even specifically said "get me a new fucking goalie" for all we know). It doesn't seem like that's similarly the case with Capuano though.

 

[DragonfromTO]

You can point to a Cup-winning team or two in the past decade who have won the Cup without a star goalie, but you can point to far more teams that were considered Cup contenders that got their asses handed to them because of their goaltending. Anaheim, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Washington, SJ, Ottawa and god knows how many I'm missing all had teams capable of winning the Cup in the past decade that folded early because of their goaltending issues.

I don't understand how an argument can be made for it being even remotely inconsequential.

How are you defining "star goalie"? Keep in mind that a subjective term like that tends to be a little bit circular, in the sense that a guy is more likely to be considered a "star" in the first place if he has won a Cup.

 

[Puck082]

How are you defining "star goalie"? Keep in mind that a subjective term like that tends to be a little bit circular, in the sense that a guy is more likely to be considered a "star" in the first place if he has won a Cup.

IMO - there's about 10 teams with star goalies, 15 mid-tier goalies and 5 teams that have neither. You could even split the 15 mid-tier to upper-mid and lower-mid.

 

[BGDave]

I have more confidence in either of that pair than I had in Matt Murray at this time last year.

Don't need a superstar goalie to win a Cup these days. If you look at the goalies who have won it all over the last 10 years or so it's pretty close to a random walk.

I liked this for the use of the phrase "random walk"

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

How are you defining "star goalie"? Keep in mind that a subjective term like that tends to be a little bit circular, in the sense that a guy is more likely to be considered a "star" in the first place if he has won a Cup.

Who in the past decade would you consider bad goalies that have won the Cup? Is the list Quick and Osgood? Maybe Niemi too although he had a few pretty good years with the Sharks after bolting?

 

[Comeds]

Snoop Dogg v Toronto Maple Leafs: legal fight looms over marijuana logo

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I don't think it's unreasonable to think that they could have. The tipping point there it seemed was that Babcock had simply lost whatever faith he had in him after his early shitty stretch (and might have even specifically said "get me a new fucking goalie" for all we know). It doesn't seem like that's similarly the case with Capuano though.

Capuano doesn't necessarily have the same job security that Babs does. Cap could demand a new goalie and find himself on the first LIRR train home. That isn't happening with Babs.

Also, Bernier's problems stretched back into last season.