Ongoing NHL thread - Part III

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Im certainly not bitter about it ... worry about the business model though ... downright scurrrrred for the nhl team if an NFL team comes on the scene too

100% the Raiders will be in Vegas as soon as they can be. There's 0 chance of a new stadium in Oakland and the other "good parts" of the Bay Area are already San Fran's property. SD beat them to LA as a possible second team. The Raiders aren't moving to Toronto or London. Be more shocked at this point if it didn't happen.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Im certainly not bitter about it ... worry about the business model though ... downright scurrrrred for the nhl team if an NFL team comes on the scene too

Nah - that wasn't directed towards you. I also believe that that two are unique especially since there are only 8 NFL homes games/year. Hey - if it doesn't work out - whatever - won't be the first time any of the leagues have screwed this up & something fails in a given city. However - if that occurs I truly believe that it will be a long time from now.

 

[Comeds]

There is very low humidity in Vegas, might be a perfect venue for an Outdoor Classic!

 

[dash]

There is very low humidity in Vegas, might be a perfect venue for an Outdoor Classic!

1991 at Caesar's Palace.

 

[esls79]

There is very low humidity in Vegas, might be a perfect venue for an Outdoor Classic!

So much for the springtime classic at Azteca then.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I have it on good authority that they're going to freeze the fountain at the Bellagio and play there.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I have it on good authority that they're going to freeze the fountain at the Bellagio and play there.

So BBb, BGDave and the rest of the Leafs fans out there will be pretty happy.


Because hell will have frozen over and the Leafs will have therefore won the Stanley Cup.

#oldLeafsjokes

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

So BBb, BGDave and the rest of the Leafs fans out there will be pretty happy.


Because hell will have frozen over and the Leafs will have therefore won the Stanley Cup.

#oldLeafsjokes

I mean, we did make a deal with the devil:

 

[forty_three]

Not sure why you are so pissed about this.

Fair question.

I'm pissed about it for a couple of reasons. First, it's purely a cash grab by the league with no real long term plans beyond grabbing said cash. And when you consider the NHL is a league that does not have the resources to handle another huge financial mistake it's unnecessary risk. In fact, it's likely that this cash grab is to make up for the last financial disaster in a desert that they bailed out. And using every justification the league has ever used as an expansion location or relocation place in the past, Vegas doesn't make it on merit. Cash grab. Pure cash grab.

And the current commissioner, who has been in place for 25 years, can just walk away while the league suffers if/when it fails. Someone else will have to fix it, and likely it will mean retraction. As a fan of a small market/marginally (financially) successful team, I do not want that.

I'm pissed about it because the NHL doesn't seem like the true goal here for Vegas. It's "a pro sport" and will "legitimize" Vegas. No one else would expand there, but the NHL will. Vegas doesn't seem excited about the NHL, they seem like they are taking what they can get. If the Raiders said tomorrow that they'd move there but only if they were the only game in town, the NHL would get dropped like a hot rock. The game is a pawn. The game should be the focus of expansion.

And the other sports won't expand there. Relocating when there are no other options is a bit different than starting from scratch.

 

[pixburgher66]

Fair question.

I'm pissed about it for a couple of reasons. First, it's purely a cash grab by the league with no real long term plans beyond grabbing said cash. And when you consider the NHL is a league that does not have the resources to handle another huge financial mistake it's unnecessary risk. In fact, it's likely that this cash grab is to make up for the last financial disaster in a desert that they bailed out. And using every justification the league has ever used as an expansion location or relocation place in the past, Vegas doesn't make it on merit. Cash grab. Pure cash grab.

And the current commissioner, who has been in place for 25 years, can just walk away while the league suffers if/when it fails. Someone else will have to fix it, and likely it will mean retraction. As a fan of a small market/marginally (financially) successful team, I do not want that.

I'm pissed about it because the NHL doesn't seem like the true goal here for Vegas. It's "a pro sport" and will "legitimize" Vegas. No one else would expand there, but the NHL will. Vegas doesn't seem excited about the NHL, they seem like they are taking what they can get. If the Raiders said tomorrow that they'd move there but only if they were the only game in town, the NHL would get dropped like a hot rock. The game is a pawn. The game should be the focus of expansion.

And the other sports won't expand there. Relocating when there are no other options is a bit different than starting from scratch.

This is my issue with it...relocating another team that's not successful in some desperate hope they can strike gold, fine, whatever. It's a measured risk. Expanding?? Hahahah, no. So dumb.

 

[esls79]

 

[Comeds]

I used to love watching Thurman Thomas skate.

 

[dare2be]

It's understandable. The Bills were so close to beating the Cowboys in the 1999 World Series.

 

[puckhead]

It's understandable. The Bills were so close to beating the Cowboys in the 1999 World Series.

but Jeff Norton shot it wide right

 

[BGDave]

Lots of good stuff here

I'm pissed about it for a couple of reasons. First, it's purely a cash grab by the league with no real long term plans beyond grabbing said cash. And when you consider the NHL is a league that does not have the resources to handle another huge financial mistake it's unnecessary risk.

I believe this has been said before every expansion the NHL has ever done. Some have worked, some haven't. The NFL and NBA have had their share of expansion success and failure also. Interestingly, MLB is the one North American pro sport that seems largely immune (Expos aside, RIP).

In fact, it's likely that this cash grab is to make up for the last financial disaster in a desert that they bailed out. And using every justification the league has ever used as an expansion location or relocation place in the past, Vegas doesn't make it on merit. Cash grab. Pure cash grab.

I would add Carolina to this statement, but you are correct.

I have a bad feeling about this, mostly due to the failed CFL experiment, They tried expanding to Vegas once. Lasted what, one year? A totally unfair comparison maybe, but I still view the NHL in the same way as the CFL. Both are Canadian-driven sports with passing interest at best in the States.

When I go into sportsbooks in Vegas, the NHL interest and action is barely noticeable. In most, you have to scrounge around in the dark corners of the book to even find the NHL odds. FWIW, NASCAR is significantly more popular than hockey in books. Golf also, not to mention the big 3 and horse racing.

I think it is an interesting idea, but I am very skeptical. Sure, fans from a handful of established markets will occasionally go to a game (Toronto, Montreal, NYR, Hawks, maybe Wings fans, that's about it). But that is hardly the recipe for a successful business model. If selling single game tickets to visiting team fans is part of your model, how do you schedule games? Most out-of-towners are there over the weekend. Will the Black Knights play most all of their home games on the weekend?

Like most all of us here, I expect this will be a financial mess for the league within 2-3 years. And that is IF the owners have billions to drop on this hobby. If they are more like McCall, it could get financially ugly real fast. Regardless of how decent a team they get in the expansion draft.

 

[wings-pens2166]

Question on this Vegas expansion: was there a time set for when they'd start league play? I'm sure it's been posted/written somewhere (but I'm too lazy to check).

I'm transferring to SD in a couple of months (3-year orders). I would not have bothered to visit Vegas while out there (not really into gambling), but for a NHL game I'd be willing to do it.

 

[BGDave]

Question on this Vegas expansion: was there a time set for when they'd start league play? I'm sure it's been posted/written somewhere (but I'm too lazy to check).

I'm transferring to SD in a couple of months (3-year orders). I would not have bothered to visit Vegas while out there (not really into gambling), but for a NHL game I'd be willing to do it.

I believe they are looking to start up in the 17-18 season.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Yeah well, their odds of winning the Cup are about as good as the Sabres right now

 

[forty_three]

It's understandable. The Bills were so close to beating the Cowboys in the 1999 World Series.

but Jeff Norton shot it wide right

So glad they didn't call Jim Kelly for being in the crease.

Lots of good stuff here



I believe this has been said before every expansion the NHL has ever done. Some have worked, some haven't. The NFL and NBA have had their share of expansion success and failure also. Interestingly, MLB is the one North American pro sport that seems largely immune (Expos aside, RIP).



I would add Carolina to this statement, but you are correct.

I have a bad feeling about this, mostly due to the failed CFL experiment, They tried expanding to Vegas once. Lasted what, one year? A totally unfair comparison maybe, but I still view the NHL in the same way as the CFL. Both are Canadian-driven sports with passing interest at best in the States.

When I go into sportsbooks in Vegas, the NHL interest and action is barely noticeable. In most, you have to scrounge around in the dark corners of the book to even find the NHL odds. FWIW, NASCAR is significantly more popular than hockey in books. Golf also, not to mention the big 3 and horse racing.

I think it is an interesting idea, but I am very skeptical. Sure, fans from a handful of established markets will occasionally go to a game (Toronto, Montreal, NYR, Hawks, maybe Wings fans, that's about it). But that is hardly the recipe for a successful business model. If selling single game tickets to visiting team fans is part of your model, how do you schedule games? Most out-of-towners are there over the weekend. Will the Black Knights play most all of their home games on the weekend?

Like most all of us here, I expect this will be a financial mess for the league within 2-3 years. And that is IF the owners have billions to drop on this hobby. If they are more like McCall, it could get financially ugly real fast. Regardless of how decent a team they get in the expansion draft.

I should also make it clear that I am very much against any expansion right now. The NHL talent pool is still not quite enough to support the teams we have. I mean guys like Jared Boll have regular NHL jobs. There's not enough talent to go around. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing a retraction of two teams at this point.

I don't think NHL should expand at all, but they seem hell bent on it because they want to make money back up from the last money pit/downward spiral they financed. Vegas is the worst of ideas because it could be an even bigger financial disaster than Phoenix. Seattle, Quebec or Milwaukee at least has a shot at being profitable in 4 years. Look how long it took San Jose and Anaheim to be financially sound. Columbus is just getting there and we're on year 15ish.

 

[wings-pens2166]

I believe they are looking to start up in the 17-18 season.

thanks...Vegas trip it is I guess.