Ongoing NHL thread - Part III

[jstewismybastardson]

What does/will youth hockey look like after this?

thought it would interesting to look at 99-00 (first year cbj versus 15-16) for some of those states total registrations

Ohio = 11011 to 14954
Nevada = 1185 to 1305
Wisconsin = 18685 to 18529
Washington = 5313 to 9105

/props to the one team left in hawaii

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Ken Campbell @THNKenCampbell
Even after acquiring Bickell, 'Canes are still more than $8 million below the floor. Yup, this salary cap thing is working out just swell.

Ken Holland should be calling Ron Francis re Datsyuk

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I remember reading not too long ago that participation rates in NC were way up over the past decade, and that they along with TX and CA were considered the "success stories" of hockey growth as a result of expansion/relocation.

That probably ends with the Canes moving though.

 

[tabascojet]

What will your team do with their 16m cash grab from expansion?

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Ken Holland should be calling Ron Francis re Datsyuk

Wonder if they would work on something bigger. Carolina has a lot of promising/skilled defence and if Detroit goes out and manages to sign Stamkos they might be willing to part with YOUNG CROSBY to get their hands on it.

 

[forty_three]

Jarmo Kekeleinen should be calling Ron Francis re Clarkson

Great Idea!

I remember reading not too long ago that participation rates in NC were way up over the past decade, and that they along with TX and CA were considered the "success stories" of hockey growth as a result of expansion/relocation.

That probably ends with the Canes moving though.

It takes a hit, no doubt. But there are enough permanent transplants and parents who grew up playing who are having kids themselves to keep it pretty steady. It's a significant increase, doubling within the timeframe in jstews comparison.

What will your team do with their 16m cash grab from expansion?

Give it to David Clarkson for no damn reason.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I remember reading not too long ago that participation rates in NC were way up over the past decade, and that they along with TX and CA were considered the "success stories" of hockey growth as a result of expansion/relocation.

That probably ends with the Canes moving though.

doubled but kinda meh if you ask me
99-00 - 3192
15-16 - 6730

/source if you guys wanna check other states out
http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0043/6200/0203final.pdf

http://assets.ngin.com/attachments/document/0100/7886/15-16_Final_Reports.pdf

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Yeah, still pales in comparison to CA but it's still an impressive jump.

Carolina feels like one of those markets that may have succeed had the team not been so brutal for so long. 10 years of crap play save one playoff run is a long time for fans of a young franchise to suffer.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

while we're on this ... i posted a while back about my son doing the Bauer/Hockey Canada sponsored "first Shift" program

is there anything like this in the states?

reason i ask is that I was talking to the president of the hockey association that hosted the program (richmond) and she was telling me there will be 5 other first shift programs within the next year locally ... she mentioned Burnaby (a year late for my son - lol), Port Moody, Poco, Surrey and one other

then she went on to say that in the coming weeks the NHL/NHLPA/CCM (who dont want to be left out on grabbing the 5 to 8 year old consumer - lol) will be announcing a similar learn to play hockey for cheap program ... i didnt ask whether this was just for Canada

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

The Hurricanes didn't have the regional effect they were going for by calling them the Carolina Hurricanes instead of the Raleigh Hurricanes.

Even today, there's only two full-size ice rinks around Charlotte, a metro area with 2.4M people in it.

 

[forty_three]

while we're on this ... i posted a while back about my son doing the Bauer/Hockey Canada sponsored "first Shift" program

is there anything like this in the states?

reason i ask is that I was talking to the president of the hockey association that hosted the program (richmond) and she was telling me there will be 5 other first shift programs within the next year locally ... she mentioned Burnaby (a year late for my son - lol), Port Moody, Poco, Surrey and one other

then she went on to say that in the coming weeks the NHL/NHLPA/CCM (who dont want to be left out on grabbing the 5 to 8 year old consumer - lol) will be announcing a similar learn to play hockey for cheap program ... i didnt ask whether this was just for Canada

In the states, it's called "One Goal", and it is very big. My son's first year he played in all One Goal gear. Basically it was a sign up thing, and I don't think they denied anyone. He went through the learn to play classes in that gear and then once he decided he wanted to play we gave it back and bought him his own stuff.

On top of that, the Blue Jackets foundation here gives each of the 4 youth organizations a grant every year to pay for ice time, and one full set of goalie gear per team per age group. Plus they help pay for arena upgrades and facilities. Just last year, the foundation helped pay for a two sheet arena in Springfield OH ('bout an hour away) and startup costs for their program. They also prop up the inner city hockey organization with as much gear as the team needs.

Also, USA Hockey sponsors hockey swaps. Essentially, they ask you to donate old gear and give you tickets to CBJ games if you do so. Then, they hold a sale of the stuff (20 bucks for skates, 10 for helmets, jerseys/socks/gloves are free for example) and give the money back to the youth organizations. USA Hockey does 3-4 "try hockey for free" days a year as well.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

still think they need to do much more in the states ... im surprised by how proactive and agressive the companies / associations are here ... i guess it tells you how much they rely on canadian sales ... but you would think they try to hit the us market hard ... why not give the kids all the complete gear and let them keep it for $199 ... unless they have the market research that affordability isnt the main thing holding increased youth hockey registration back maybe its all about access to the infrastructure (rinks)

 

[jstewismybastardson]

and just going back to first shift ... after it ended .. Richmond Minor haphazardly organized its own "second shift" program ... $150 dollars for 8 more one hour on-ice sessions saturdays & sundays ending June 19th

95 % of first shift players registered for second shift

 

[SoCalWizFan]

What does/will youth hockey look like after this?

In 2015/2016 - USA Hockey had 1305 registered hockey players in all of Nevada. 200 less than Alabama.

Alabama.

800 Of those are adult players. The largest concentration of youth players is at the 9-10 age level. 112 for the whole state. My organization in Columbus (one of 4 in town) had 140+ 9-10 age group kids itself. Statewide in Ohio, that age group has 1700.

I don't care if roadtrippers (or Casino owners) buy tickets. If the game isn't growing at a grassroots level, it's not worth it in the long run. Why not put a team in Dubai? People like visiting there too. If the goal is to have a neat place to go watch a game, then we could play games in various stadiums around the... um.

(for the record)
WI - 16900
WA - 9000
Quebec, I am sure, demolishes those numbers

??

Did you not read this part of the related article:

The team has already collected deposits for more than 13,000 season-ticket packages. An important note about those ticket sales is that the first run of tickets were not made available to corporations or private businesses, to get a true test of fan interest. When it comes to selling luxury suites, they shouldn't have much problem with the many businesses that would be able to snap them up.

So - they are on their way to selling a majority of their tickets & no deposits came from casino owners or likely out of towners. Why does the fanbase have to come from predominately people who play the game? I like the NHL & I have never played hockey. I am sure that this is true for lots of folks including season ticket holders. Lots of fans from all sports are ones who don't play the sport or don't play it often. Have you also perhaps thought of the possibility that youth hockey will grow once the team is in place? This happened in SoCal after the emergence of Gretzy and the Kings.

I really believe that you are kind of off on this one. Vegas (& especially the specific location of this arena) is very unique & cannot really be compared to other cities/venues. The Dubai analogy is a terrible one.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

The team has already collected deposits for more than 13,000 season-ticket packages. An important note about those ticket sales is that the first run of tickets were not made available to corporations or private businesses, to get a true test of fan interest. When it comes to selling luxury suites, they shouldn't have much problem with the many businesses that would be able to snap them up.

iirc they were just deposits and they were refundable ... its certainly promising but just as you got on me for making assumptions yesterday ... lets not fully assume those 13000 deposits become full STH's

 

[forty_three]

??

Did you not read this part of the related article:

The team has already collected deposits for more than 13,000 season-ticket packages. An important note about those ticket sales is that the first run of tickets were not made available to corporations or private businesses, to get a true test of fan interest. When it comes to selling luxury suites, they shouldn't have much problem with the many businesses that would be able to snap them up.

So - they are on their way to selling a majority of their tickets & no deposits came from casino owners or likely out of towners. Why does the fanbase have to come from predominately people who play the game? I like the NHL & I have never played hockey. I am sure that this is true for lots of folks including season ticket holders. Lots of fans from all sports are ones who don't play the sport or don't play it often. Have you also perhaps thought of the possibility that youth hockey will grow once the team is in place? This happened in SoCal after the emergence of Gretzy and the Kings.

I really believe that you are kind of off on this one. Vegas (& especially the specific location of this arena) is very unique & cannot really be compared to other cities/venues. The Dubai analogy is a terrible one.

You don't say? What would a 100% increase in participation give us? Would youth hockey registrations start to rival Oregon? Iowa?

Everywhere any sport has been successful, it remains successful because you build lifelong fans. And the most foolproof way to get lifelong fans is to cultivate generations of people who view the game experience as more than just a road trip/thing to get drunk at. The game itself becomes a part of you, not just something to do because the indoor parachute place is closed.

Everyone knows why the non-hockey players (casinos and pit bosses) of Nevada care about hockey. The same reason they care about midgets beating horses and Jai-Alai. Gambling (and buffets). And hockey going there is not going to change a damn thing about that. So why put it there? Other than to line the NHL owner's pockets, give some event promoters what they want (another show to comp tickets to) and eventually, likely have the next Black Sox scandal.

There is no logical reason for "hockey" to be in Vegas. The NHL wants to go there because we have an egotistical shrew in charge of the league who wants to give a big payday to the owners. He's tried to force feed Atlanta on the NHL and it failed. He tried to force feed Phoenix and it's been a money pit.

And Arizona had three times the hockey players Nevada does at the outset. If we're going to deplete the talent pool for expansion let's at least do it somewhere that the whole game can grow, not just Ed SNider's estate. The league is already trying to fix the expansion draft so the team is competitive right out of the gate. Why? Because unless it's a magic show, Celine Dion or bouncing titties in a chorus line, no one there cares. Only people from out of town and gamblers care. Gamblers are going to gamble no matter what, and out of towners are already out of town. The game of hockey is being used as a sideshow and I reserve the right to be pissed off about it. NFL, NBA and MLB are all smart enough to realize it's a losing proposition. Not only is the NHL a sideshow, it's a last resort sideshow.

I can't wait to see the *actual* season ticket holder number. If they get 2000 actual humans spending their money for them, I will be SHOCKED.

 

[forty_three]

still think they need to do much more in the states ... im surprised by how proactive and agressive the companies / associations are here ... i guess it tells you how much they rely on canadian sales ... but you would think they try to hit the us market hard ... why not give the kids all the complete gear and let them keep it for $199 ... unless they have the market research that affordability isnt the main thing holding increased youth hockey registration back maybe its all about access to the infrastructure (rinks)

I agree, there should be more outreach from corporate hockey sponsors. Reebok sold a setup at one chain store down here which was everything except skates and a stick for 175-200 (I think). Problem was the chain that sold it, primarily only offered it in places like Pittsburgh and Detroit. Kids in Detroit and Pittsburgh are going to play hockey. You've just made it more cheap for people who would play no matter what (and a lot of them probably didn't want that gear anyway). Make it cheaper for ones who aren't sure. Once they get in the door, American Development Model should be enough to keep them excited about the game.

There are like 15 Target stores around Columbus, and with the exception of T-shirts and hats, only on has anything hockey related at all and it's always clearanced out and sold off by Thanksgiving. I'd love to see more of that stuff in the stores the kids are in all the time. And more sporting goods stores selling affordable gear for kids.

We have the infrastructure (11 sheets), but sometimes putting your hands on gear is a struggle for new parents, until they learn who sells it.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

iirc they were just deposits and they were refundable ... its certainly promising but just as you got on me for making assumptions yesterday ... lets not fully assume those 13000 deposits become full STH's

Agree, but I don't think that the season ticket #s will be just a fraction of that amt. Let's just wait & see how this plays out. I think that people in this area are hungry for pro sports. Most of the objections appear to be coming from bitter folks from other areas. Time will tell.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

You don't say? What would a 100% increase in participation give us? Would youth hockey registrations start to rival Oregon? Iowa?

Everywhere any sport has been successful, it remains successful because you build lifelong fans. And the most foolproof way to get lifelong fans is to cultivate generations of people who view the game experience as more than just a road trip/thing to get drunk at. The game itself becomes a part of you, not just something to do because the indoor parachute place is closed.

Everyone knows why the non-hockey players (casinos and pit bosses) of Nevada care about hockey. The same reason they care about midgets beating horses and Jai-Alai. Gambling (and buffets). And hockey going there is not going to change a damn thing about that. So why put it there? Other than to line the NHL owner's pockets, give some event promoters what they want (another show to comp tickets to) and eventually, likely have the next Black Sox scandal.

There is no logical reason for "hockey" to be in Vegas. The NHL wants to go there because we have an egotistical shrew in charge of the league who wants to give a big payday to the owners. He's tried to force feed Atlanta on the NHL and it failed. He tried to force feed Phoenix and it's been a money pit.

And Arizona had three times the hockey players Nevada does at the outset. If we're going to deplete the talent pool for expansion let's at least do it somewhere that the whole game can grow, not just Ed SNider's estate. The league is already trying to fix the expansion draft so the team is competitive right out of the gate. Why? Because unless it's a magic show, Celine Dion or bouncing titties in a chorus line, no one there cares. Only people from out of town and gamblers care. Gamblers are going to gamble no matter what, and out of towners are already out of town. The game of hockey is being used as a sideshow and I reserve the right to be pissed off about it. NFL, NBA and MLB are all smart enough to realize it's a losing proposition. Not only is the NHL a sideshow, it's a last resort sideshow.

I can't wait to see the *actual* season ticket holder number. If they get 2000 actual humans spending their money for them, I will be SHOCKED.

NFL realizes it? Good chance that the Raiders will be there soon. Not sure why you are so pissed about this.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Agree, but I don't think that the season ticket #s will be just a fraction of that amt. Let's just wait & see how this plays out. I think that people in this area are hungry for pro sports. Most of the objections appear to be coming from bitter folks from other areas. Time will tell.

Im certainly not bitter about it ... worry about the business model though ... downright scurrrrred for the nhl team if an NFL team comes on the scene too