POLL One view about the Playoffs

[trojanfan12]

So liking things the way they are now equals being afraid of change? Does that really make sense to you?

It's usually the reason, so yes.

 

[Eco]

I didn't. I made one "what if" scenario. Much of the discussion on here involves what if scenarios.


Lots of things are discussed as potential issues both good and bad before something new is implemented. There were all kinds of things discussed about how the BCS would play out before it was implemented, how the current playoff would work before it was implemented, hell, how conference expansion would play out when it started happening in earnest.

Discussing things that haven't happened yet when talking about things that haven't been implemented yet is kind of how it's done.

Yes, if a G-5 school school only scheduled OCC games with P-5 schools, and ended the season undefeated, it's likely that they will make the playoffs if other P5 schools are not undefeated.

 

[WizardHawk]

@WizardHawk Again, we essentially agree, but I'm stupid enough to believe that the only way that things will change is to go out and change them. Both of our schools have done that over the years, which is why they've both seen success. Maybe you're content to live with the current status quo, I'm not, therein lies the difference.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead

Going to an 8 game playoff where some lucky G5 gets a free ticket to the show doesn't fix anything. It's a token gesture at best. For 60+ other mid majors it doesn't do a thing except dangle a carrot they won't ever reach. It doesn't do anything to bring a more level field overall. And it ruins the intensity of the regular season for the sake of offering up more participation into a tournament that then ends up being less about who really is the most deserving team to be called champion in favor of just having a tournament to see who is doing the best at that point. That's not something I personally am interested in.

 

[trojanfan12]

And that entirely devalues the title.

Not even a little bit.

Right now a title means you were the most worthy team through the regular season AND played the best at the end.

Winning the title makes you worthy. Winning your conference makes you worthy of a shot at the title.

It's really that simple.

 

[WizardHawk]

It's usually the reason, so yes.

I like my wife so that means I'm afraid of cheating on her or dumping her for someone else then right?
I like my current car so I must be afraid of going out after a different one.

No, that's not how things work. Not at all.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes, if a G-5 school school only scheduled OCC games with P-5 schools, and ended the season undefeated, it's likely that they will make the playoffs if other P5 schools are not undefeated.

I doubt it. Folks would just point to their conference and say they won a weak conference and wouldn't be unbeaten if they played in a P5 conference.

 

[WizardHawk]

Winning the title makes you worthy. Winning your conference makes you worthy of a shot at the title.

It's really that simple.

USC was not worthy of a shot at a national title. And had UW beaten Stanford and USC they may or may not have gotten in with that backlog at 3-5 and would still have no one but themselves to blame for the really bad game against ASU. I wouldn't be banging a drum that we need more slots. It's not necessary. They lost. I dealt with that. USC lost. Badly. Get over it and do better next year. Win your damned games and stop looking for reasons to devalue regular season losses.

 

[trojanfan12]

I like my wife so that means I'm afraid of cheating on her or dumping her for someone else then right?
I like my current car so I must be afraid of going out after a different one.

When you go to extremes examples like this on something that has nothing to do with the conversation...


It shows that it's time for you to drop out of the conversation because you have no valid argument.

Thanks for playing though.

 

[WizardHawk]

When you go to extremes examples like this on something that has nothing to do with the conversation...


It shows that it's time for you to drop out of the conversation because you have no valid argument.

Thanks for playing though.

So you say liking your current anything means fear of change and I prove it wrong, but it's me that lost?

Not working man. You can keep trying, but that failed so badly there is no recovery.

There isn't anything wrong with the current 4 team playoff. There is no fear of change in that. There is only the sharp opinion that change in that case would be bad. That's not fear, that's understanding the implication of giving auto bids and entirely killing any sense that a regular season loss is bad. I want no part of that in any way because I love that regular season games matter and losses fucking wreck you. It's unique in sport and I seriously want no part in losing that just so some team that got wrecked by ND can devalue that and find a shot at glory anyway. You got all of the glory you deserved in being crowned Pac12 champs. You didn't deserve more. Period.

 

[trojanfan12]

USC was not worthy of a shot at a national title.

Why are you trying to make this about USC? Who said anything about USC?

I said that if you win a P5 conference, you deserve a shot in the playoffs. I feel the same about tOSU.

Under the current format, neither USC, nor tOSU deserved to be in. But then, if conference championships are supposed to mean something...Alabama doesn't deserve to be in either.

An 8 team playoff would allow for all conference champs to be in and still have room for teams like this years Bama team. If they truly don't deserve to be there, it would play out on the field (which is what the BCS and now the playoff is supposed to be about).

 

[trojanfan12]

So you say liking your current anything means fear of change and I prove it wrong, but it's me that lost?

Second thing you've gotten right in the entire thread (the first was that no one is changing their stance on this).

 

[trojanfan12]

There isn't anything wrong with the current 4 team playoff.

Yes, there is. The problem is with a committee trying to decide which conference champion should be left out of the playoff. An 8 team playoff eliminates that.

 

[Gator]

No it's not bullshit. And no it's not ludicrous. It is another man's opinion. The same way CFB has always
selected its champions. "Another man's opinion."

Plus if you sent the Conf Champs it would encourage the playing of more quality games, not lessen them.
Teams fight to keep from playing them now, because a loss could destroy you. An OOC game wouldn't
destroy you if Conf Champs got autos.

Not playing P5 teams would not bankrupt any G5 team. Far from it. Those folks and those folks at 1-AA
and Div II and Div III know how to stretch their dollars. The Pioneer League is a non-scholarship
1-AA league with teams spread across the country. San Diego to Jacksonville and points north and
the Midwest. They don't draw 5k a game. Have zero TV money. You ought to read about them and how they make their dollar work.

Bottom feeders of the P5 would not be competitive by the end of the season if they had to play
12 games against other P5 squads. P5 teams NEED those G5 teams. Many of those G5 squads
would survive by simply reorganizing and have all league members close by. You can stretch the
dollar.

You are right, the above IS one man's opinion. It is wrong but still it IS one man's opinion.
#1 "An OOC game wouldn't destroy you if Conf Champs got autos." Really? How about FSU? How did your season go after playing an UN-NECESSARY OOC vs BAMA?

#2 As has been pointed out many times before - IF conference champs get auto bids then there is NO reason to schedule tough OOC games. Just beat your conference teams, schedule FCS foes at home and collect $ for BOTH the extra home games AND the playoff money.

#3 I read about the Pioneer League. Pioneer League offers NCAA football on a budget

A full scholarship to Campbell – a private, Baptist school of about 6,800 located an hour's drive south of Raleigh – is worth roughly $24,000, which means that meeting the FCS standard of 63 scholarships would cost the school about $1.5 million, athletic director Stan Williamson said. The Camels' football travel budget is a fraction of that, ranging between $100,000 and $150,000, he said.

"Travel is expensive, but you're only traveling five or six games a year – compare that to the cost of a scholarship at a private school. That's a whole lot cheaper," Williamson said. "A tenth of ($1.5 million) is certainly a lot cheaper, even if you have to fly to San Diego or Drake or places like that, than it is traveling shorter distances (in a scholarship league), which would save you some money but not near the $1.5 million it would cost to fund the scholarships to compete at that level."

Most FBS schools collect more $ just from HOME ticket sales than the average G5 YEARLY athletic budget.

Here is another article. USA TODAY Sports
It shows that only ~ 140 schools have total athletic budgets above $20M. Thus, a "paid loss" for the
other" teams of $1M represent 5% of their yearly budget. That price tag is increasing yearly.

G5 Universities Seeking Bigger Paydays For Guaranteed Football Games

Michigan paid $3.1M for its OOC home games.

 

[NolePride]

You are right, the above IS one man's opinion. It is wrong but still it IS one man's opinion.
#1 "An OOC game wouldn't destroy you if Conf Champs got autos." Really? How about FSU? How did your season go after playing an UN-NECESSARY OOC vs BAMA?

#2 As has been pointed out many times before - IF conference champs get auto bids then there is NO reason to schedule tough OOC games. Just beat your conference teams, schedule FCS foes at home and collect $ for BOTH the extra home games AND the playoff money.

#3 I read about the Pioneer League. Pioneer League offers NCAA football on a budget

A full scholarship to Campbell – a private, Baptist school of about 6,800 located an hour's drive south of Raleigh – is worth roughly $24,000, which means that meeting the FCS standard of 63 scholarships would cost the school about $1.5 million, athletic director Stan Williamson said. The Camels' football travel budget is a fraction of that, ranging between $100,000 and $150,000, he said.

"Travel is expensive, but you're only traveling five or six games a year – compare that to the cost of a scholarship at a private school. That's a whole lot cheaper," Williamson said. "A tenth of ($1.5 million) is certainly a lot cheaper, even if you have to fly to San Diego or Drake or places like that, than it is traveling shorter distances (in a scholarship league), which would save you some money but not near the $1.5 million it would cost to fund the scholarships to compete at that level."

Most FBS schools collect more $ just from HOME ticket sales than the average G5 YEARLY athletic budget.

Here is another article. USA TODAY Sports
It shows that only ~ 140 schools have total athletic budgets above $20M. Thus, a "paid loss" for the
other" teams of $1M represent 5% of their yearly budget. That price tag is increasing yearly.

G5 Universities Seeking Bigger Paydays For Guaranteed Football Games

Michigan paid $3.1M for its OOC home games.

You're basing an assumption that the FSU schedule went downhill because of losing our QB
vs Bama. The hit didn't hurt his knee...just how he fell. Hell, we lose more players to injury
vs have-not teams than the good one's. Players tend to loaf when playing a patsy and loafing
on a football field is always a hazard and risk to one's good health. A few year's back
you guys lost both your starting defensive tackles to The Citadel, probably for the same reason.

Nah...when you play good teams, everybody is focused and playing hard and at full speed.
It's when you are on the field daydreaming is when you get your clock cleaned.

I never said the G5's didn't want the money, just that they could survive without it
by reorganizing their league memberships, if they wanted to force equal treatment.
They are not mandated to have only 5 leagues at the G5 level. They could reorganize
into 8 leagues if they desired. Then they'd have 7 8-team leagues and 1 9-team league.
Some of those schools would never have to get on an airplane. Plus the closer the competition
the more "visiting team fans" can attend the game. There aren't many making the trip
from Marshall to UTEP.

I gave an opinion on how the G5's could change the narrative if they wanted it changed
bad enough. There is nothing wrong with that.

How's the introduction to the single wing coming along?

 

[smilesid]

While I'm an admitted Boise homer, I still think that what Boise has done, and is doing, is probably the best approach for G5 schools.

First, just win. Since the object of football is to win games, the more you win the better.
Second, build a brand. At first, I didn't like all the gimmicks my school used. But it got people to stop and look. And it really helped with recruiting; the players love the Blue and they know that every game is going to be on TV for the folks back home.
Third, don't be ashamed to speak up for your own best interests. They wonks from the various SEC and elite schools do, so why shouldn't we?
Fourth, schedule smart, not just to please snobs that won't be pleased no matter what you do. This thread proves that one, that's for sure. Boise realized early that the strategy of taking endless guarantee games to be bum of the month for some P5 school doesn't work. So Boise only takes those games if the school is willing to also come to Boise or play the game in a neutral site, even if its just up the road from that school. At least it's not a pure home game. Besides, those big corporate sponsors also have big corporate sponsor checkbooks. I hate it, but money runs the sport.

As I read the press from the other schools we play, they've put a big target on Boise's back. "If we want to be relevant, we have to beat Boise, the big dog." That's the way it should be. That's why every year, Boise doesn't just play a P5 or two, they play BYU and a top G5 team from another conference. This will establish Boise's desire that if they are going to be stuck in G5, they damn well want to be the best one.

 

[TheDayMan]

More teams brings in more viewers. That means higher revenus from advertising. That's what television is always after.

You think no one watches the big bowl games that aren't the playoff? Viewership would be about the same.

 

[GNG]

Until there is a real playoff format in college football I won't be watching.

 

[GNG]

You think no one watches the big bowl games that aren't the playoff?

Only if their college team is in it.

 

[WizardHawk]

Why are you trying to make this about USC? Who said anything about USC?

I said that if you win a P5 conference, you deserve a shot in the playoffs. I feel the same about tOSU.

Under the current format, neither USC, nor tOSU deserved to be in. But then, if conference championships are supposed to mean something...Alabama doesn't deserve to be in either.

An 8 team playoff would allow for all conference champs to be in and still have room for teams like this years Bama team. If they truly don't deserve to be there, it would play out on the field (which is what the BCS and now the playoff is supposed to be about).

I'm not bringing up USC to troll you. They are an example this year of why an auto bid is poison to me and nothing more. I would feel the same if it was an 11-2 UW team that got entirely destroyed by someone mid season. the attempted 'fix' to make more clear who belongs at 3, 4, or 5 breaks more than it fixes in my opinion and rewards mediocrity if your league otherwise had a down year. I'm not making this personal or attacking you, just putting my views out there. If you prefer a different example, I also wouldn't think Auburn with 3 losses, but ranked in the top 8 would be deserving of a playoff berth and would likely be in whether you took the top 8, or used an auto bid and filled in 'at large'. 3 loss teams have NO business being crowned national champions IMO.

I will take exception this this though: "If they truly don't deserve to be there, it would play out on the field" False. And this goes to the differences of those who agree with me vs those who agree with you. The ends do NOT justify the means. Who 'deserved' to be there is not the same as who is better at that moment, more or less do we not see every single week upsets happen. I could not more strongly disagree with that stance. Most deserving does NOT have to mean best team at that time. Not at all.

Yes, there is. The problem is with a committee trying to decide which conference champion should be left out of the playoff. An 8 team playoff eliminates that.

You guys keep making this about conference champions. Conference champions are champions of their league and nothing more. There is no further entitlement inferred or expressed in any way. Using your logic above, all Bama has to do is beat Georgia or get farther in this 4 team format to prove you wrong yes? There are all sorts of silliness you can compare when using that criteria which is why I find it invalid.

Until there is a real playoff format in college football I won't be watching.

Only if their college team is in it.

Won't watch college ball himself because it's not enough NFL jr for him, says he understands what college football fans do and do not watch in bowl season.

Seems legit.

 

[pitman]

IMO I think the playoffs should be the 5 P5 conference champs and the highest ranked G5 conference champ. Making a 6 game playoff. Winning your conference is part of the elimination process leading up to the playoffs.

This year would be
Clemson-bye
Oklahoma-bye
Georgia- UCF
tOSU- USC

Again just my opinion