One positive, maybe

[Anotherwvufan]

We have shown that we could lose to the worst team in the Big 12. how was it that we were able to beat oklahoma state the preseason conference favorite? How can any team be so inconsistent?

That win really looks now like it will kill the Big 12 from getting a shot to play in the NC game. Looking at the polls and BCS standings, Ok state would be no worse than 4 and Baylor no worse than 5 in the BCS coming into their upcoming game. A win like that would likely put the winner ahead of Ohio state and ahead of Florida state in the computer rankings. A Baylor win now will not make much of a difference.

Florida State owes us a thank you.

 

[ralphiewvu]

I was going to say it was basketball season.

 

[WVUDAD]

There is NOTHING positive in an ass whippin by Kansas!!!!!!!!!

 

[GoldRusher]

Yea, I remember when the word came out that we were headed to the B12 some members of the B12 telling us about how this conference will drive you crazy as a fan. I remember thinking that they were prob being a lil dramatic but now , I see exactly what they were talking about and they were exactly right. That said, getting beat by this KU team at their place with this team isn't totally shocking, but getting beat in that manner and blown out until garbage time with bowl possibilities on the line?No, I'm sorry but just about all confidence in Holgorsen is now gone, he can drive you crazy with this offense when all the parts are in place but he has miles and miles to go as a HC when it comes to preparing week to week and getting a team to get the most out of what they have to work with.

 

[JIMKOON]

Yea, I remember when the word came out that we were headed to the B12 some members of the B12 telling us about how this conference will drive you crazy as a fan. I remember thinking that they were prob being a lil dramatic but now , I see exactly what they were talking about and they were exactly right. That said, getting beat by this KU team at their place with this team isn't totally shocking, but getting beat in that manner and blown out until garbage time with bowl possibilities on the line?No, I'm sorry but just about all confidence in Holgorsen is now gone, he can drive you crazy with this offense when all the parts are in place but he has miles and miles to go as a HC when it comes to preparing week to week and getting a team to get the most out of what they have to work with.

It's not the B12...it's the pathetic head coach we have...we cannot continue on this course...another season at this horrific level of play...and we will be new the door mat of the B12 for 5_ years.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

I think GoldRusher hit the nail on the head for me. This loss drained any confidence I had in DH as a head coach. That doesn't mean I vote to can him, because I don't. I'll still give him next year. Although my expectations for next year are now significantly lower.

 

[DCWV4life]

Some positives for me and WVU:

We won't lose money going to a bowl lol
Josh lambert
Alford
Shorts
Rose
Worley
Dillon
Banks
Golson
Boomstache
Smallwood
Solid class from last year will have year in system

Plenty of things to be thankful for WVU fans......see you guys at Iowa St.

 

[JIMKOON]

Some positives for me and WVU:

We won't lose money going to a bowl lol
Josh lambert
Alford
Shorts
Rose
Worley
Dillon
Banks
Golson
Boomstache
Smallwood
Solid class from last year will have year in system

Plenty of things to be thankful for WVU fans......see you guys at Iowa St.

I guess knowing that championship football requires a TEAM, not just 10 players who struggled with no support. I'm thankful for many things, being alive still, the most important. Just not impressed by the lack of growth in this team, and my hopes are not rising of anything close to a B12 championship in my remaining life, not with Dana Holgerson as the head coach.

 

[DCWV4life]

I guess knowing that championship football requires a TEAM, not just 10 players who struggled with no support. I'm thankful for many things, being alive still, the most important. Just not impressed by the lack of growth in this team, and my hopes are not rising of anything close to a B12 championship in my remaining life, not with Dana Holgerson as the head coach.

We had three players take us to a bowl 2 years ago.....oh wait that was in the BE...get my point? We are having to develope these young guys and guess what this type of thing happens when you have to develope so many young guys. 12 Sr's is what this team has (one is Sims which DH is responsible) how many of the 12 have contributed this year? How many from the great recruiting classes we hear about all the time is leading this team? Cook is the only one worth a pi$$ and the other 2 or 3 that have contributed are role players at best. When the best players on your team is a safety and a juco guy you have to bring in then that usually does not lead to many wins.

This guy who you say can't coach did it just as well as our past two coaches in the same conf....and he is not far off from what the great RR has been doing while coaching in confs not names the BE. You may be done with him and to each their own, I just think this team will come around with time. If year 4 does not show then I will be with you....I see some of the faults you point out and agree with SOME of them, but not going to poo poo a first time head coach for as much change that has happened around him so far and the welcome mat a lot of our fans crapped on when he got here.

Glad to see you back on here and nothing bu the best to you as you deal with your health issues...my dad is going through some of the same stuff.

 

[JIMKOON]

We had three players take us to a bowl 2 years ago.....oh wait that was in the BE...get my point? We are having to develope these young guys and guess what this type of thing happens when you have to develope so many young guys. 12 Sr's is what this team has (one is Sims which DH is responsible) how many of the 12 have contributed this year? How many from the great recruiting classes we hear about all the time is leading this team? Cook is the only one worth a pi$$ and the other 2 or 3 that have contributed are role players at best. When the best players on your team is a safety and a juco guy you have to bring in then that usually does not lead to many wins.

This guy who you say can't coach did it just as well as our past two coaches in the same conf....and he is not far off from what the great RR has been doing while coaching in confs not names the BE. You may be done with him and to each their own, I just think this team will come around with time. If year 4 does not show then I will be with you....I see some of the faults you point out and agree with SOME of them, but not going to poo poo a first time head coach for as much change that has happened around him so far and the welcome mat a lot of our fans crapped on when he got here.

Glad to see you back on here and nothing bu the best to you as you deal with your health issues...my dad is going through some of the same stuff.

I want to make it very clear, I don't hate Dana Holgerson. My opinion is squarely this, he has not shown any signs of growth as a head coach. And this team is experiencing the growing pains of a shift to a much much better conference, what I continue to call a major investment for WVU, not just in dollars, but in respect and reputation. I WANT WVU to succeed, but again, in my humble opinion, it has not, and will not under the leaderless leadership of Dana Holgerson as our head coach. His reputation is suffering among those very recruits you mention, this team quit on him in Kansas, QUIT. How can we possibly see him changing that? How can he honestly go out and recruit 5 star players with this product to show? Nice facilities certainly are a plus, but elite players do not want to play for losing programs, that's undeniable fact!

I'm not well, but not complaining. Thank you for the kind words. I pray your father will endure his health issues and get better.

 

[DCWV4life]

I want to make it very clear, I don't hate Dana Holgerson. My opinion is squarely this, he has not shown any signs of growth as a head coach. And this team is experiencing the growing pains of a shift to a much much better conference, what I continue to call a major investment for WVU, not just in dollars, but in respect and reputation. I WANT WVU to succeed, but again, in my humble opinion, it has not, and will not under the leaderless leadership of Dana Holgerson as our head coach. His reputation is suffering among those very recruits you mention, this team quit on him in Kansas, QUIT. How can we possibly see him changing that? How can he honestly go out and recruit 5 star players with this product to show? Nice facilities certainly are a plus, but elite players do not want to play for losing programs, that's undeniable fact!

.

Not a solid truth about 5 star players not wanting to play at schools that lose...Maryland just picked up one last year and when is the last time MD has been in a conversation? In any regards we have not picked up 5 star talent on a frequent basis to begin with so it is kind of hard to analyze that here at WVU. It seems though our 4 star talent has picked up a bit and we have one 5 star talent as a red shirt from last year. So lets see how that plays out.

On the quitting at Kansas, do we ever hold the players responsible? These same kids just took Texas into overtime, does he get credit for keeping them interested in that game? My point being is a head coach cannot get out there and do things for this team(DH seems like the kind who would strap a helmet on) when do we hold the SR's responsible?

I do not think he has lost the team, just my opinion.

His biggest mistake in my opinion is not getting a good QB in here...this team is a 8 or 9 win team with a solid QB, not great just solid.

I think the guy can coach...like I said before against the same talent he caoched just as well as the two guys before him in his first year of coaching. Time will tell.

 

[DCWV4life]

And i hope no one hates the guy, I was not a fan of Stew but I sure didn't hate the guy, not a fan of RR either but do not hate him...even though I want too! lol

This is football, a entertainent device, to many people use it as a crutch. Some people justify ripping this guy apart, because of Stew...makes no sense to me.

 

[JIMKOON]

And i hope no one hates the guy, I was not a fan of Stew but I sure didn't hate the guy, not a fan of RR either but do not hate him...even though I want too! lol

This is football, a entertainent device, to many people use it as a crutch. Some people justify ripping this guy apart, because of Stew...makes no sense to me.

I do not subscribe to ripping anybody on a personal level, ever. RR was easy to not like after the way he departed WVU. but I don't hate him. Bill Stewart was my friend, outside of the football field, but he was ill equipped to be head coach of a major college program, and his unfortunate ending is a sadness I carry to this day. And this is only my opinion, for sure, and it speaks nothing of a personal tone, simply football. Dana Holgerson is not adequately equipped to coach a major college team. Can he grow to be, that is the ultimate question? Are we willing to endure more of the level of playing on the field to see if he can become better? I guess that is a question every Mountaineer most answer within themselves. Once more, in my opinion, Dana Holgerson does not have the requisite ability from the core of his experience to do so. I have watched him since his coaching duty days at the University of Houston, he hasn't changed a whole lot(well his hairline has receded a bit more, but who am I to cast stones, lol). He has a temper, but as an assistant coach it was fired at small groups of players on the offensive side of the ball. Up until his elevation to head coach at WVU, he never dealt with a full team, and that drain on his ability, has brought on a massive amount of confusion, for him, his selected coaches and his players. Those are core skills people, and you either have them, or you don't. Kiffin is a classic example of a coach who just didn't have it as a head coach. I am afraid our program has the same problem. Just my opinion. I'm sure that the powers that be will do what they think is right, some of us will agree with that process, and some of us won't. That's the nice thing about opinions, they are like buttholes, we all got one!!!!!

 

[WVUDAD]

Not a solid truth about 5 star players not wanting to play at schools that lose...Maryland just picked up one last year and when is the last time MD has been in a conversation? In any regards we have not picked up 5 star talent on a frequent basis to begin with so it is kind of hard to analyze that here at WVU. It seems though our 4 star talent has picked up a bit and we have one 5 star talent as a red shirt from last year. So lets see how that plays out.

On the quitting at Kansas, do we ever hold the players responsible? These same kids just took Texas into overtime, does he get credit for keeping them interested in that game? My point being is a head coach cannot get out there and do things for this team(DH seems like the kind who would strap a helmet on) when do we hold the SR's responsible?

I do not think he has lost the team, just my opinion.

His biggest mistake in my opinion is not getting a good QB in here...this team is a 8 or 9 win team with a solid QB, not great just solid.

I think the guy can coach...like I said before against the same talent he caoched just as well as the two guys before him in his first year of coaching. Time will tell.

DC, hell yes we can hold the head coach of a team responsible for the team quitting, I am coach enough to get a team fired up to play Texas at home. A good, effective coach gets his team fired up to play kansas, especially when a bowl and winning season is on the line. I agree that his single biggest mistake is QB, someone said above that he put too much stock in Trickett, that is not the case, as it was not known till late that he was coming, meaning Millard and Childress were his choices going into this season. You give Holgorsen too much dredit for his first year, he had a seasoned defensive staff with a veteran coordinator, meaning that Holgorsen concerned himself purely with the offense, last year he had the whole team on his shoulders due to such poor defensive coaching.

 

[DCWV4life]

I will say it again, you thought RR can coach and many do on here....in the same conf as RR,
DH had the same conf record and won a BCS bowl in his first season ever as a coach...yet we label this guy as none coaching material because he has struggled with a new conf move(same as Gary Patterson who has plenty of coaching exp)...while also building the depth, and making first time coaching decisions. Please someone bring up the cupboard was not bare arguement since the next game we will be graduating 12 seniors (11 actually the 12th being Sims who is also are best player) and of the other 11 what three are contributors. DH is practically building this thing from the ground up IMO and deserves some time.

 

[Mike]

I will say it again, you thought RR can coach and many do on here....in the same conf as RR,
DH had the same conf record and won a BCS bowl in his first season ever as a coach...yet we label this guy as none coaching material because he has struggled with a new conf move(same as Gary Patterson who has plenty of coaching exp)...while also building the depth, and making first time coaching decisions. Please someone bring up the cupboard was not bare arguement since the next game we will be graduating 12 seniors (11 actually the 12th being Sims who is also are best player) and of the other 11 what three are contributors. DH is practically building this thing from the ground up IMO and deserves some time.

Couldn't agree more. RR got lucky White and Slaton got playing time because of injury, not from RR choice.

 

[JIMKOON]

I will say it again, you thought RR can coach and many do on here....in the same conf as RR,
DH had the same conf record and won a BCS bowl in his first season ever as a coach...yet we label this guy as none coaching material because he has struggled with a new conf move(same as Gary Patterson who has plenty of coaching exp)...while also building the depth, and making first time coaching decisions. Please someone bring up the cupboard was not bare arguement since the next game we will be graduating 12 seniors (11 actually the 12th being Sims who is also are best player) and of the other 11 what three are contributors. DH is practically building this thing from the ground up IMO and deserves some time.

Once more, you give him too much credit for that first year, Dana Holgerson did nothing defensively coaching wise his first year, and his offensive coaching was more than adequate leading to a great season surrounded by inherited talent on the field. Once the apple cart spilled his second season, and the additional responsibility levels for all sides of the ball, that is where we witnessed the lack of head coach ability. Maybe he just doesn't know how to delegate appropriately, maybe he is attempting to micro manage the situation, maybe he is surrounded by buffoons who don't know what they are doing. I don't know, but what I see is failure on the field of play without growth. Up and down teams have been historically proven time and time again to be traced back to one thing, coaching. How else can you explain USC this year? How is it that Kiffin is fired, and those same ineffective players start playing like champions? Firing a head coach is hard, just ask Haden, but there are times when the hardest thing to do, is the only thing to do and in today's sports world, the failure to recognize the necessity for change, IS the future of a program.

 

[WVUDAD]

Once more, you give him too much credit for that first year, Dana Holgerson did nothing defensively coaching wise his first year, and his offensive coaching was more than adequate leading to a great season surrounded by inherited talent on the field. Once the apple cart spilled his second season, and the additional responsibility levels for all sides of the ball, that is where we witnessed the lack of head coach ability. Maybe he just doesn't know how to delegate appropriately, maybe he is attempting to micro manage the situation, maybe he is surrounded by buffoons who don't know what they are doing. I don't know, but what I see is failure on the field of play without growth. Up and down teams have been historically proven time and time again to be traced back to one thing, coaching. How else can you explain USC this year? How is it that Kiffin is fired, and those same ineffective players start playing like champions? Firing a head coach is hard, just ask Haden, but there are times when the hardest thing to do, is the only thing to do and in today's sports world, the failure to recognize the necessity for change, IS the future of a program.

Jim, you are one of the few who gets it, 2011 Holgorsen was the OC, NOT HC, Casteel took care of the defense, Holgorsen did not get involved.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

We need to stick with Holgerson another year for two reasons. #1. 11 million dollar buyout #2. He really does need a chance to show what kind of program he can build, two recruiting classes is not enough to show what he can do. Really, he should have two more years so we can see what his recruits do as seniors. Holgs did not get to do much recruiting while HCIW so he really has had only two classes.

And look what they produced: Kyle Rose, Darrien Howard, Kinsey, Kwitakowski, Bruce, Joseph, Dillon, Clay, Smallwood, Gibson, Shorts, Lucas, Orlosky, Haughten James. All Frosh or Soph who saw significant playing time this year.

What do we lose this year due to graduation: Sims, Eger Feight, Rowell, Clarke, Rigg: all of these guys have good replacements to follow them. We will have better athletes on the field over the next three years. Next years seniors who will contribute will be dominated by the JC guys who Holgs brought in this past year. Other than the Jucos and transfers, our contributing seniors next year should be Spain, Millard, Barber, Banks and Bell. That really means that we will graduate 8 starters in the next two years. We will improve.

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Some things to consider here:

A losing team can still attract good recruits (See kentucky's #11 recruiting rating this year)

If Holgerson has another losing season next year, expect him to be gone and whoever is next will inherit a Jr and Sr loaded roster.

Louisville had a good rebound with Charlie Strong right after being Kragenthorped. Don't give up hope Jim. If HCDH does not work out, the program will be far from dead.

BTW, I am not happy with HCDH, I was not happy with HCBS and I was not happy with HCRR (Until White and Slaton), but I did not want any of them fired before their 4 year stint was over.

Unfortunately, we are training a head coach who has to learn when to go for it, when to call a time out, how to get 85 kids all angry at the same time for 60 minutes. Much of this can be learned, while hard to watch, HCDH is learning from his mistakes.