Offseason news

[jarntt]

It's a tough call. Which Dez do we expect? IMHO, If he is the player from last year then we are better off without Dez on the field regardless of who replaces him. He was a huge roadblock for us. We forced him the ball and it hurt this team over and over. He didn't make many positive plays and he was directly or indirectly involved with a lot of negative plays. Big negative plays. Now throw in the fact that if you cut him post 6/1 you save $12.5M this year and next year against the cap and it is moronic to not cut him. Cutting him pretty much reverses our cap problems for the next couple of years.

Now, If he is the dominant player he was a few years ago, then there is no chance this team is as good without him as we are with him. To rely on a first round draft pick to provide that year 1 would be asinine. When he took a safety away pretty much every single play it opened up the field for everyone else and he still got his catches and was a dominant red zone force. Maybe the top red zone target in the league over a 3 year period.

So, which Dez are we talking about? If I had a crystal ball and could see the answer to that question it would make the decision to cut or keep a lot easier. Bottom line the problems with Dez have always been about his pride and nothing has changed there. So I don't expect him to accept a pay cut unless we do something like push money back or god forbid something dumber like a 2018 cut, but extend him with guaranteed money to offset it. This is where we would be better off with Jerry letting Stephen handle the situation. Jerry will say dumb thinks like 'I still believe in you and won't let you go' and then back himself into a corner and end up making a business decision based on a personal relationship or a dumb comment he makes.

I guess at this point weighing all the positives and negatives...if we draft a WR in the first round that the scouts love and think will be a true #1...I think we are better off cutting Dez and using the money elsewhere. Since we don't know which Dez we will get it's probably not worth the risk to keep him and find out. At his best he puts up 85 catches and 16 TDs and is worth his cap hit - but at that salary he is not worth more even if he has another great year. At his worst he crushes our cap and also hurts us on the field. It could bite us, but this is still a young team. If we are building for the long run, then we have a better chance in 2019 than 2018...but when has Jerry looked at the long run???

 

[jarntt]

What would you guys think about this scenario for the rest of the offseason:

Cut Dez
Trade a 2nd rounder to Seattle for Thomas - they aren't getting a first
Use the savings from Dez to extend Thomas
Draft a WR at #19
Pretty much use most of the rest of the draft on defense.
Either move Collins to Guard and find someone to compete with Fleming for RT/ST via draft or FA, or find a starting Guard because I don't think it is Looney or Martin and keep Fleming at ST in case Smith goes down.

Personally I wouldn't do it because I'm not giving up a 2nd for Thomas and then also giving him a 4 year $40M contract. I just don't like to give up premium picks and then also pay a guy so I'd rather keep the 2nd round pick. But this would give us a pretty nice week 1 roster.

 

[UK Cowboy]

What would you guys think about this scenario for the rest of the offseason:

Cut Dez
Trade a 2nd rounder to Seattle for Thomas - they aren't getting a first
Use the savings from Dez to extend Thomas
Draft a WR at #19
Pretty much use most of the rest of the draft on defense.
Either move Collins to Guard and find someone to compete with Fleming for RT/ST via draft or FA, or find a starting Guard because I don't think it is Looney or Martin and keep Fleming at ST in case Smith goes down.

Personally I wouldn't do it because I'm not giving up a 2nd for Thomas and then also giving him a 4 year $40M contract. I just don't like to give up premium picks and then also pay a guy so I'd rather keep the 2nd round pick. But this would give us a pretty nice week 1 roster.

I wonder if we might keep the 2nd and trade Dez for Thomas. I know player for player trades hardly ever happen due to cap ramifications, but just for kicks, I wonder if this were something Seattle would consider. Thomas is obviously the better player, but he has also been more banged up, and will leave hit the FA market if they don't franchise him. I am sure Dallas would have to kick in a little more, say Dez and one of their 4th's...for a QB like Wilson, who has to extend plays because of the Seahawks brutal OL, a guy like physical guy like Dez might thrive

 

[jarntt]

I wonder if we might keep the 2nd and trade Dez for Thomas. I know player for player trades hardly ever happen due to cap ramifications, but just for kicks, I wonder if this were something Seattle would consider. Thomas is obviously the better player, but he has also been more banged up, and will leave hit the FA market if they don't franchise him. I am sure Dallas would have to kick in a little more, say Dez and one of their 4th's...for a QB like Wilson, who has to extend plays because of the Seahawks brutal OL, a guy like physical guy like Dez might thrive

I doubt it. I think if Seattle trades Thomas it is to clear cap space and get younger. I don't know if they would want Dez back. But a team that trades for him gets him with no guaranteed money so there is a slight upside I guess. If I'm Seattle I prefer one year of Thomas (by a lot) to 2 years of Dez at a higher salary. I'm sure if we pay some of Dez's salary they may be interested, but then it kills the benefit of cutting him. If we cut Dez we could also use the rollover savings from 2018 and the savings from 2019 to sign Thomas if he hits FA next year.

 

[Manster7588]

What would you guys think about this scenario for the rest of the offseason:

Cut Dez
Trade a 2nd rounder to Seattle for Thomas - they aren't getting a first
Use the savings from Dez to extend Thomas
Draft a WR at #19
Pretty much use most of the rest of the draft on defense.
Either move Collins to Guard and find someone to compete with Fleming for RT/ST via draft or FA, or find a starting Guard because I don't think it is Looney or Martin and keep Fleming at ST in case Smith goes down.

Personally I wouldn't do it because I'm not giving up a 2nd for Thomas and then also giving him a 4 year $40M contract. I just don't like to give up premium picks and then also pay a guy so I'd rather keep the 2nd round pick. But this would give us a pretty nice week 1 roster.

If you're going to cut him why not just add him to the trade for Thomas. I agree they won't get a first, but Dez and a 2nd looks a little more appealing IMO.

 

[Manster7588]

Bruce Butler a Cardinal
Ex-Cowboys WR Butler headed to Cardinals

 

[jarntt]

If you're going to cut him why not just add him to the trade for Thomas. I agree they won't get a first, but Dez and a 2nd looks a little more appealing IMO.

Because I don't think Seattle wants him. If trading for Dez is a positive, then why would we cut him?
Also, If you trade him I believe you take the cap hit up front as compared to being able to split it between 2018 and 2019.

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

Bruce Butler a Cardinal
Ex-Cowboys WR Butler headed to Cardinals

Guess his dream of being a #1 receiver will wait awhile.

 

[Godstree]

Guess his dream of being a #1 receiver will wait awhile.

I think the cards offense should run through butler. He is awesome, just ask him.

 

[Sir Robin Of Camelot]

I think the cards offense should run through butler....

He does too. Wonder what Fitzgerald thinks...

 

[Manster7588]

Guess his dream of being a #1 receiver will wait awhile.

I'm hoping he has a great year, it might get us a comp pick.

 

[ArlingtonCowboys100]

It's a tough call. Which Dez do we expect? IMHO, If he is the player from last year then we are better off without Dez on the field regardless of who replaces him. He was a huge roadblock for us. We forced him the ball and it hurt this team over and over. He didn't make many positive plays and he was directly or indirectly involved with a lot of negative plays. Big negative plays. Now throw in the fact that if you cut him post 6/1 you save $12.5M this year and next year against the cap and it is moronic to not cut him. Cutting him pretty much reverses our cap problems for the next couple of years.

Now, If he is the dominant player he was a few years ago, then there is no chance this team is as good without him as we are with him. To rely on a first round draft pick to provide that year 1 would be asinine. When he took a safety away pretty much every single play it opened up the field for everyone else and he still got his catches and was a dominant red zone force. Maybe the top red zone target in the league over a 3 year period.

So, which Dez are we talking about? If I had a crystal ball and could see the answer to that question it would make the decision to cut or keep a lot easier. Bottom line the problems with Dez have always been about his pride and nothing has changed there. So I don't expect him to accept a pay cut unless we do something like push money back or god forbid something dumber like a 2018 cut, but extend him with guaranteed money to offset it. This is where we would be better off with Jerry letting Stephen handle the situation. Jerry will say dumb thinks like 'I still believe in you and won't let you go' and then back himself into a corner and end up making a business decision based on a personal relationship or a dumb comment he makes.

I guess at this point weighing all the positives and negatives...if we draft a WR in the first round that the scouts love and think will be a true #1...I think we are better off cutting Dez and using the money elsewhere. Since we don't know which Dez we will get it's probably not worth the risk to keep him and find out. At his best he puts up 85 catches and 16 TDs and is worth his cap hit - but at that salary he is not worth more even if he has another great year. At his worst he crushes our cap and also hurts us on the field. It could bite us, but this is still a young team. If we are building for the long run, then we have a better chance in 2019 than 2018...but when has Jerry looked at the long run???

Jerruh does not learn from the past. Dez had a nice career,but is almost 30. Dez can't get separation. Calvin Ridley will get separation. Steven Jones got rid of TO and Bryant will be next if he does not take a pay cut. I also see beasely not being around much longer. This WR core is paid very well and they flat out stunk last season

 

[tomodach10]

Jerruh does not learn from the past. Dez had a nice career,but is almost 30. Dez can't get separation. Calvin Ridley will get separation. Steven Jones got rid of TO and Bryant will be next if he does not take a pay cut. I also see beasely not being around much longer. This WR core is paid very well and they flat out stunk last season

Ridley would be a rookie in the NFL. It will take time for him to adjust to NFL. While it would be good for the cap, Dez will be here this year regardless of taking a pay cut. Dallas would be foolish just to cut him. I can see a possible trading of Dez. Cutting outright?? I dont see it IMO. Dez has to improve and Dak does as well.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Ridley would be a rookie in the NFL. It will take time for him to adjust to NFL. While it would be good for the cap, Dez will be here this year regardless of taking a pay cut. Dallas would be foolish just to cut him. I can see a possible trading of Dez. Cutting outright?? I dont see it IMO. Dez has to improve and Dak does as well.

If Dez had 1200 yards last year, his salary wouldn't be an issue. Dez had 800 and a bunch of drops and selfish moments. They aren't afraid of losing that at his cap figure. Dez will take a pay cut if he wants to stay in Dallas. If he refuses, Stephen is gonna cut him. He won't be here at his current number IMO

 

[PDay8810]

Dez will take a pay cut if he wants to stay in Dallas. If he refuses, Stephen is gonna cut him. He won't be here at his current number IMO

I tend to agree with this line of thinking
BUT...jerry remains in the room, SO....I haven't a clue, LOL

 

[UK Cowboy]

I tend to agree with this line of thinking
BUT...jerry remains in the room, SO....I haven't a clue, LOL

That's for damn sure...though, thankfully, Stephen has had his way more often as of late. Just one move and we would have Johnny Football at QB and no Zach Martin OR Dak..
.

 

[Eiknarflin]

I said previously that I would no longer comment on Dez until we see how this plays out. This comment is not specifically meant to be about Dez, but about all those who keep saying that we can't/won't play this season without Dez...

Translate his numbers to any other position on the field, either side of the ball, then add his antics into the mix and then his salary. Would you play and pay Lee for running his mouth non-stop on the sidelines only to whiff big time on a RB coming out of the backfield? If Bailey made a big stink to the coaches about only being given opportunities to kick the field goal under fifty-five yards, and then completely shanks several fifty-six yard field goals and missing a few more inside of forty because he didn't count his steps out before the snap, would you want him back? If Martin failed to hustle on half of his pulls so that the running back was stopped in the backfield, would you be arguing for his contract to be handled as soon as possible so that we have him locked up for several more years?

That's basically what I'm hearing every time I read someone saying, "Dez will/should be on this team for the 2018 season." Yeah, if he comes back and dominates, it would be great. The problem is that we have at least two years of him not dominating, and a career of him running lazy routes and dropping passes. He has never demonstrated himself to be worthy of the kinds of dollars he's currently receiving because he runs lazy routes, is inconsistent in his catches, and because he runs his mouth too much on the side lines.

I was over Dez four years ago and I haven't seen anything that has given me a reason to reconsider that assessment.

 

[tomodach10]

If Dez had 1200 yards last year, his salary wouldn't be an issue. Dez had 800 and a bunch of drops and selfish moments. They aren't afraid of losing that at his cap figure. Dez will take a pay cut if he wants to stay in Dallas. If he refuses, Stephen is gonna cut him. He won't be here at his current number IMO

If he cuts him outright. It will stupid IMO. You dont think that some of the 800 yards instead of 1200 could be attributed to Dak as well??

 

[tomodach10]

I said previously that I would no longer comment on Dez until we see how this plays out. This comment is not specifically meant to be about Dez, but about all those who keep saying that we can't/won't play this season without Dez...

Translate his numbers to any other position on the field, either side of the ball, then add his antics into the mix and then his salary. Would you play and pay Lee for running his mouth non-stop on the sidelines only to whiff big time on a RB coming out of the backfield? If Bailey made a big stink to the coaches about only being given opportunities to kick the field goal under fifty-five yards, and then completely shanks several fifty-six yard field goals and missing a few more inside of forty because he didn't count his steps out before the snap, would you want him back? If Martin failed to hustle on half of his pulls so that the running back was stopped in the backfield, would you be arguing for his contract to be handled as soon as possible so that we have him locked up for several more years?

That's basically what I'm hearing every time I read someone saying, "Dez will/should be on this team for the 2018 season." Yeah, if he comes back and dominates, it would be great. The problem is that we have at least two years of him not dominating, and a career of him running lazy routes and dropping passes. He has never demonstrated himself to be worthy of the kinds of dollars he's currently receiving because he runs lazy routes, is inconsistent in his catches, and because he runs his mouth too much on the side lines.

I was over Dez four years ago and I haven't seen anything that has given me a reason to reconsider that assessment.

Nothing you have to say about Dez is objective. You are a Dez hater like Romo lovers. You hate um you want him gone. Rinse and reapeat. . No one said the Cowboys cant live without Dez. I would much rather they trade him then outright cut him. No one player is indespensiblle on Dallas.

 

[Manster7588]

If he cuts him outright. It will stupid IMO. You dont think that some of the 800 yards instead of 1200 could be attributed to Dak as well??

I'd say much of it is attributed to the drops.