Official: Tim Thomas Traded to Islanders

[dboy97]

this isnt true ... its not like the Bruins are gonna bring someone onto their roster that isnt being paid somewhere in the nhl with that cap space they freed up

meanwhile ... Nino Neiderreiter is getting paid 67,500 playing in the AHL because the Isles dont want to pay actual players actual dollars ... he must be thrilled

I still say it is a zero sum trade.

Assume what you say is true the Bruins use the cap space and acquire a player on an NHL roster. That in turn frees space on thier roster and they can call up a player and pay them NHL dollars. The difference is that a contender now has cap space.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

I still say it is a zero sum trade.

Assume what you say is true the Bruins use the cap space and acquire a player on an NHL roster. That in turn frees space on thier roster and they can call up a player and pay them NHL dollars. The difference is that a contender now has cap space.

The cap space is exactly what doesn't make it a zero sum trade, IMO. There's no question that the Bruins have benefitted from this move without actually having to give anything up.

There may be no actual change of $s between Boston and NYI, but there's definitely value moving around.

 

[dash]

The cap space is exactly what doesn't make it a zero sum trade, IMO. There's no question that the Bruins have benefitted from this move without actually having to give anything up.

There may be no actual change of $s between Boston and NYI, but there's definitely value moving around.

Exactly - I like the Bruins, but I can't believe the league approved this transaction (well, actually I can when you look at the jokers running this league). The Bruins can add a quality top-end player this season to bolster a run to another championship without having to give up much in the way of tangible assets. There's something rotten in the state of Denmark.

Edit: Changed my original post as it wasn't that well worded.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Exactly - I like the Bruins, but I can't believe the league approved this transaction (well, actually I can when you look at the jokers running this league). The Bruins can add a quality top-end player this season to bolster a run to another championship without giving up an asset. There's something rotten in the state of Denmark.

The Bruins will have to give up something for the top end player. All this deal did was free up cap space.

 

[dboy97]

The cap space is exactly what doesn't make it a zero sum trade, IMO. There's no question that the Bruins have benefitted from this move without actually having to give anything up.

There may be no actual change of $s between Boston and NYI, but there's definitely value moving around.

Before NY had cap space but no one really gave a shit. Now a contender does because someone was willing to take it off thier hands. Zero sum. If NY can get Thomas to come back and he plays well it is a benifit to NY fans. If he doesn't then they get to cheap out and make the cap floor a benefit to the NY owner. I would be pissed off I were a NY fan too, but Boston had been talking about possibly moving Thomas since before the lockout began and it would have been to someone below the cap floor. I can see outrage from NY fans but I think misplaced from other team fans.

 

[dash]

The Bruins will have to give up something for the top end player. All this deal did was free up cap space.

Yeah, okay, but the point is that this allows them to make a move that they would probably not be able to make with this additional freed up cap space.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

I have a couple of CBA questions for those in the know.

Is it true that a contract can only be tolled during the offseason?

We know Thomas's deal ends at the end of this season. So going by that if they can't toll his contract this offseason does Thomas become an UFA at the end of the year?

The Islanders have until June 30 to inform all parties of their intention toll the contract. The tolling of a contract is done during the offseason when it becomes official the player failed to fulfill their part of the contract.

If the Islanders don't or for some reason can't toll the contract Thomas will become a UFA.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

The Islanders have until June 30 to inform all parties of their intention toll the contract. The tolling of a contract is done during the offseason when it becomes official the player failed to fulfill their part of the contract.

If the Islanders don't or for some reason can't toll the contract Thomas will become a UFA.

So the deal comes down to this, the Islanders know Thomas isn't going to play this year, but has said he would like to come back next season. They can keep his cap hit for this year & let him walk at the end of the year.

If that's the case Garth has this thing down to a science.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

Yeah, okay, but the point is that this allows them to make a move that they would probably not be able to make with this additional freed up cap space.

Trust me as long as Wang owns the Islanders it won't be the last time the Isles do something like this. The new CBA closed the loopholes on some things Chuck was doing. It didn't take him long to figure out a way around it. Wang obviously has people working very hard to save him as much money as possible & still be at the cap floor.

 

[esls79]

To me this really isn't a loophole as there are very few players with large multi million dollar contracts that are suspended by their team and even fewer that are then subsequently traded. In fact, this may be a one time deal.

To me this is the NHL's version of trading the expiring contract so often used in NBA trades.

 

[dash]

To me this really isn't a loophole as there are very few players with large multi million dollar contracts that are suspended by their team and even fewer that are then subsequently traded. In fact, this may be a one time deal.

To me this is the NHL's version of trading the expiring contract so often used in NBA trades.

Speaking of the NBA...

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

Before NY had cap space but no one really gave a shit. Now a contender does because someone was willing to take it off thier hands. Zero sum. If NY can get Thomas to come back and he plays well it is a benifit to NY fans. If he doesn't then they get to cheap out and make the cap floor a benefit to the NY owner. I would be pissed off I were a NY fan too, but Boston had been talking about possibly moving Thomas since before the lockout began and it would have been to someone below the cap floor. I can see outrage from NY fans but I think misplaced from other team fans.

I don't see how you can call it zero sum when the benefit to the Bruins is clearly a lot higher than the benefit to NYI. Keep in mind that the Bruinds get a 2nd rounder if Thomas does come back and play too. Their advantage from this will be on the ice because they can now make a big move at the deadline. NYI's move is purely financial, not hockey related in any way (I consider it a wash even if he plays because of the 2nd rounder).

Boston had what, about $2.5M in cap space before? Which put them in the bottom 5 for space. Now they have ~$7.5M, which is right around the middle of the pack. For a team that's already a contender, that's a HUGE advantage going into the trade deadline.

 

[dboy97]

I don't see how you can call it zero sum when the benefit to the Bruins is clearly a lot higher than the benefit to NYI. Keep in mind that the Bruinds get a 2nd rounder if Thomas does come back and play too. Their advantage from this will be on the ice because they can now make a big move at the deadline. NYI's move is purely financial, not hockey related in any way (I consider it a wash even if he plays because of the 2nd rounder).

Boston had what, about $2.5M in cap space before? Which put them in the bottom 5 for space. Now they have ~$7.5M, which is right around the middle of the pack. For a team that's already a contender, that's a HUGE advantage going into the trade deadline.

TT > 2nd round pick if he plays. A second round pick is a crap shoot
If he doesn't play I admit that this aides the Bruins but one team was going to have that money to spend come the trade deadline. The only thing that bothers you guys is who has the cap space. Yes it a pure financial deal for the NYI if TT does not play.
The cap space is the cap and that is why I say it is a zero sum trade and the players union would have no problem with it. It did not remove space for another player to make money with later in the season. Weather it was the Islanders or the Bruins or another team calling someone up to make NHL money someone will be called up sooner or later.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

TT > 2nd round pick if he plays. A second round pick is a crap shoot
If he doesn't play I admit that this aides the Bruins but one team was going to have that money to spend come the trade deadline. The only thing that bothers you guys is who has the cap space. Yes it a pure financial deal for the NYI if TT does not play.
The cap space is the cap and that is why I say it is a zero sum trade and the players union would have no problem with it. It did not remove space for another player to make money with later in the season. Weather it was the Islanders or the Bruins or another team calling someone up to make NHL money someone will be called up sooner or later.

Ordinarily I would agree with that. But we're talking about the Islanders here. TT doesn't turn the Islanders into contenders this year, no matter how well he plays. And odds are that the Islanders 2nd round pick is a pretty high 2nd round, which puts it as far less of a crapshoot. And being realistic, TT likely doesn't re-sign with NYI next season, even if he does come back and play.

And why shouldn't fans of other teams be pissed? The Islanders weren't contenders, no matter how much cap space they had. But the entire point of the cap is to keep teams from buying an advantage, which is exactly what the Bruins just did.

And believe me, I don't let the Islanders off the hook here either, because they're just as guilty for going along or proposing it (hard to say who brought the idea up). The biggest difference is that they gain far less from it.

 

[dboy97]

sabresfaninthesouth, I respect your opinion and I can understand why you would be pissed that the Bruins made a deal that made themselves better. My initial post was argueing that it was a zero sum trade and as such the players union would not have issue with it. I firmly stand by that, because weather it is the Iles, Bruins, or another team the cap space is still there to be spent. In fact, from their view it may be a better deal for the players union because the the Isles are cheap bastards and would not have spent much if any of the space. Bottom line I respect your opinion and your team even if they are wrong.

 

[sabresfaninthesouth]

sabresfaninthesouth, I respect your opinion and I can understand why you would be pissed that the Bruins made a deal that made themselves better. My initial post was argueing that it was a zero sum trade and as such the players union would not have issue with it. I firmly stand by that, because weather it is the Iles, Bruins, or another team the cap space is still there to be spent. In fact, from their view it may be a better deal for the players union because the the Isles are cheap bastards and would not have spent much if any of the space. Bottom line I respect your opinion and your team even if they are wrong.

I've got no issue with any team making themselves better (OK, maybe the Patriots) as long as it's a legit move. The fact that the fans of 29 teams are pissed about this should be a pretty clear indicator that's it not a legit move.

 

[mattola]

i think it was quite smart of both sides to do this deal. but the fact that it can be made kinda of makes the lockout an even bigger joke. the cap floor is there for a reason to make sure NHL players get paid as much as possible so cheap teams dont spend as little as possible. so what happens here is the bruins trade a player that wont probably ever play again that is suspended and not getting paid but has a cap hit anyway to a team that wont have to pay him and doesnt want to pay anyone else to get to the cap floor any not be fined. and people are ok with this? it has nothing to do with the fact it was boston hell if the canucks did this I would be as pissed we as a fanbase were locked out for so many stupid things and we get it back and ALREADY they are doing so many stupid things. we will have another lockout next cba

 

[mattola]

I've got no issue with any team making themselves better (OK, maybe the Patriots) as long as it's a legit move. The fact that the fans of 29 teams are pissed about this should be a pretty clear indicator that's it not a legit move.

thing is that it IS a legit move. there is no rule stating you cant trade a suspended player. (did thomas have a NTC or NMC?) but like the long term front loaded deals it is a clear circumvention of the cap in every sense of the word and they went and penalized teams like the canucks that signed Luongo to that deal in the new CBA. Daly said Boston is trading an asset for an potential asset if he reports there now or next year. so its legit in that sense and I agree but as mentioned above I just find it wrong and so should everyone else that was affected by the lockout.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

To me this really isn't a loophole as there are very few players with large multi million dollar contracts that are suspended by their team and even fewer that are then subsequently traded. In fact, this may be a one time deal.

To me this is the NHL's version of trading the expiring contract so often used in NBA trades.

San Jose and New Jersey did something simular to this in 05-06 when Lou needed to dump Vladimir Malakhov's cap hit because he was in danger of being over the cap at the start of the season.

The origional deal was structured almost exactly like this Thomas deal, only it was a conditional 4th for Malakhov's rights, and that deal was nixed by the league and declaired cap circumvention. Garbage pieces were added to the trade which was later approved.

I would be curious as to why the league would deem the origional SJ/NJ trade circumvention but not have an issue with the Thomas trade.

 

[dash]

I would be curious as to why the league would deem the origional SJ/NJ trade circumvention but not have an issue with the Thomas trade.

Is the answer Jeremy Jacobs uses Bettman as a hand puppet?