Off-Season Thread

[Cincyfan78]

I've been reading good things about Pitcher since 2020.... when he was promoted to QB coach after Van Pelt left for Cleveland. I hope he's worth the hype. I also hope Zac lets him put his own stamp on the offense. There's another level to this offense that we've never fully achieved. The talent is in the building. Given the questions on D, this is the year for it to emerge.

He had a few interviews last year - and had at least, I think it was, 4 lined up this year.

He's very well thought of around the league. Gets a ton of credit for the work with Browning this year, and Burrow has raved about him.

In the grand scheme of things - how will it change/effect the offense? No clue, since Taylor still calls the plays - but having a new voice in the ear with different ideas and having worked closely with Burrow can help maybe tune Taylor in a bit more to the strengths of what needs to be done and also areas in which they need to invest a bit more in to ensure they are getting the most out of their QB, and the offense as a whole.

 

[cincygrad]

He had a few interviews last year - and had at least, I think it was, 4 lined up this year.

He's very well thought of around the league. Gets a ton of credit for the work with Browning this year, and Burrow has raved about him.

In the grand scheme of things - how will it change/effect the offense? No clue, since Taylor still calls the plays - but having a new voice in the ear with different ideas and having worked closely with Burrow can help maybe tune Taylor in a bit more to the strengths of what needs to be done and also areas in which they need to invest a bit more in to ensure they are getting the most out of their QB, and the offense as a whole.

The "Taylor calls the plays" crowd drives me nuts. This has been a common criticism of the Titans for hiring Calahan. Here's the thing, lots of good coaches in this league were coordinators that didn't call plays. It's just a part of the modern NFL. People were raving about Miami's offense before they had some injuries late in the year - McDonald didn't call plays for SF. That was Shanny. Look at the somewhat surprising McVeigh tree of coaches - LaFleur, Taylor, O'Connel.... Those guys weren't calling plays for the Rams (even if they did in stops before LA). Being an offensive coordinator is much more than playcalling.... And in fact, I would make the argument that the plays are called during the week when making the gameplan rather than randomly at a coach's whim on a Sunday afternoon.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The "Taylor calls the plays" crowd drives me nuts. This has been a common criticism of the Titans for hiring Calahan. Here's the thing, lots of good coaches in this league were coordinators that didn't call plays. It's just a part of the modern NFL. People were raving about Miami's offense before they had some injuries late in the year - McDonald didn't call plays for SF. That was Shanny. Look at the somewhat surprising McVeigh tree of coaches - LaFleur, Taylor, O'Connel.... Those guys weren't calling plays for the Rams (even if they did in stops before LA). Being an offensive coordinator is much more than playcalling.... And in fact, I would make the argument that the plays are called during the week when making the gameplan rather than randomly at a coach's whim on a Sunday afternoon.

Yeah, calling the plays as an OC or whatever isn't really a huge thing in my book. It's more about what they are learning from the guy who is calling the plays.

My hope is that whatever Callahan was able to help Taylor with, Pitcher will be able to build on that to help Taylor, ultimately, be a better play-caller. Sometimes having a different voice in your ear can make a huge difference.

For Pitcher - he may not call plays - but like many who do not - he's going to be able to tout his work with their QB, and in this case that is pretty evident and a hefty backing considering how prepared Browning was down the stretch, and of course the Bengals overall offense. Again - even if he's not calling the plays - he's involved in the game prep and still has some input in the play/situations that Taylor calls.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Just let the QB call the plays. he knows what the offense is really comfortable with.

you can't intercept the communications signal with a hack device or radio, just qb giving audible and hand signals to his people.

 

[cincygrad]

I think the biggest issue is that people conflate play-calling with scheme. Or they conflate play-calling with success. In the latter case, it's really dependent upon factors not always in your control. For example, I think Hue Jackson was a good "play-caller" with the Bengals. When he took over the Browns, he wasn't a very good play caller because the Browns sucked. And they continued to suck when he turned play calling over to Todd Haley - A guy that sometimes is a good playcaller and sometimes isn't. Point being, it's not really about playcalling, it's about play success.

The other point is scheme. The Bengals sometimes run out of shotgun when it is a goal line situation. This drive some fans and traditionalists nuts. It's not like Zac just randomly lands on some shotgun run play that he haphazardly picks for that goal line scenario. The team has schemed it that way. They think it gives them a chance on short yardage situations. It is in the their redzone and goal line package. If you have an issue with it, your issue isn't with the play caller, it is with the scheme.

If your twitter fans could stop being morons, I'd probably be more happy.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think the biggest issue is that people conflate play-calling with scheme. Or they conflate play-calling with success. In the latter case, it's really dependent upon factors not always in your control. For example, I think Hue Jackson was a good "play-caller" with the Bengals. When he took over the Browns, he wasn't a very good play caller because the Browns sucked. And they continued to suck when he turned play calling over to Todd Haley - A guy that sometimes is a good playcaller and sometimes isn't. Point being, it's not really about playcalling, it's about play success.

The other point is scheme. The Bengals sometimes run out of shotgun when it is a goal line situation. This drive some fans and traditionalists nuts. It's not like Zac just randomly lands on some shotgun run play that he haphazardly picks for that goal line scenario. The team has schemed it that way. They think it gives them a chance on short yardage situations. It is in the their redzone and goal line package. If you have an issue with it, your issue isn't with the play caller, it is with the scheme.

If your twitter fans could stop being morons, I'd probably be more happy.

I actually have no issues going shotgun in goal-line situations.

My bigger issue with short yardage situations are 2 fold:

1 - bunching everyone up in a small space to get 1-2 yards is dumb. It's counter intuitive and it favors the defense, in general. I've never understood this. The goal is to create space - I much prefer to see a team spread it out and force the defense to decide how they want to cover. If you go 4 wide and 1 RB - there is immediate space in the middle to decide to hand off, or QB draw. If the defense still crowds the middle - there's space outside to get the ball to a WR. Now, is that a perfect setup? Of course not, but in a game where the goal is to create space for the ball carrier/receiver, I've never understood the fascination with bunching everyone up and taking away space from an offensive perspective. If you have a massive OL and consistently move people...I get it. However, that leads me to point #2...

2 - The Bengals offensive line SUCKS at short yardage...so, to build on the point above - if your OL struggles to create space already, and your RB struggles to break contact and make people miss in general....WHY OH WHY do we want to run plays, REPEATEDLY, where we do exactly what this team has shown for years what it CANNOT do?!

Give me Chase outside, Higgins outside, at TE split out, and your 3rd WR split out....I mean...out - and I'd have Higgins single to one side to create the potential for a jump ball. Create that space. Put Burrow in the gun, or under center I don't care, and Brown in the backfield. Force the defense to decide how they want to defend that. Brown is quick enough, explosive enough to take advantage of a light box. The WR's are good enough that if the defense bites to the middle you have room to make throws. Burrow has enough legs to get you some yards there, too.

 

[Cincyfan78]

And FWIW - Point one is not Bengal specific. It's all of football.

Point 2 is more directed at the Bengals....because I fully believe in point 1....LOL

 

[cincygrad]

And FWIW - Point one is not Bengal specific. It's all of football.

Point 2 is more directed at the Bengals....because I fully believe in point 1....LOL

It's hard for me to understand how the Bengals favor size over athletic skill on the line and that none of this size translates to goal-line situations. I get why they struggle to generate yards on wide-zone plays or those pitch plays that they try without success.... Our guys just don't move very well. But, you'd figure they would be better in goal line situations. Regardless, I'd like to see them change their approach for drafting and signing offensive linemen. Because the current approach isn't working.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's hard for me to understand how the Bengals favor size over athletic skill on the line and that none of this size translates to goal-line situations. I get why they struggle to generate yards on wide-zone plays or those pitch plays that they try without success.... Our guys just don't move very well. But, you'd figure they would be better in goal line situations. Regardless, I'd like to see them change their approach for drafting and signing offensive linemen. Because the current approach isn't working.

Yes. The Bengals have no real "earth" movers on the line and stink in short yardage.

They also, as a group, have one of the lowest RAS scores for maneuverability among OL's....so they can't get out into space as well as you would think considering the type of runs called/used.

This is a direct result, IMO, of a plug and play approach they've had since Marvin was here. They need to identify the kind of game they want on offense and then draft a Line and a RB that will fit. Clearly, this is a Burrow-centric offense that would benefit with high level of athleticism in pass pro. That means, likely, more athletic style run game...stretch plays, off tackle, probably more trapping and pulling linemen...that's fine. Start building a line that can achieve that - and then find a RB who is good in that scheme (I think Brown would fit this).

Right now - the OL is good at, really, nothing. They get by on a wing, a prayer, and Burrow being Burrow.

 

[Cincyfan78]

 

[cincygrad]

 

[DanBengalfan]

NFL 2024 Salary Cap Tracker

A real-time look at the 2024 salary cap totals for each NFL team, including estimated cap space.

www.spotrac.com

 

[DanBengalfan]

top 8 in cap space (so far)

 

[CrashDavisSports]

top 8 in cap space (so far)

We would have been 5th, but that already accounts for Tee's 21.8 million.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

NFL 2024 Salary Cap Tracker

A real-time look at the 2024 salary cap totals for each NFL team, including estimated cap space.

www.spotrac.com

Based on that cap space, the Dolphins are screwed. Way over on CAP, a lot of dead money, and they have the least amount of players actively signed in the league. What a bunch of idiots. We may rag on Mike Brown for his frugal ways, but look how clean we are on CAP. 3rd least dead cap space, 51 players currently signed, have 52 million in CAP even after $21.8 million to Higgins. A very healthy CAP situation for the Bengals.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Based on that cap space, the Dolphins are screwed. Way over on CAP, a lot of dead money, and they have the least amount of players actively signed in the league. What a bunch of idiots. We may rag on Mike Brown for his frugal ways, but look how clean we are on CAP. 3rd least dead cap space, 51 players currently signed, have 52 million in CAP even after $21.8 million to Higgins. A very healthy CAP situation for the Bengals.

This is more due to Tobin and Blackburns...Brown really hasn't done much with anything since 2019ish when Taylor was hired. That was pretty much the dividing line of Brown fully stepping away and Katie and her husband taking over.

Of course, Brown is still around and still appraised of what is going on - but he's more of a headfigure at this point than an active owner.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

This is more due to Tobin and Blackburns...Brown really hasn't done much with anything since 2019ish when Taylor was hired. That was pretty much the dividing line of Brown fully stepping away and Katie and her husband taking over.

Of course, Brown is still around and still appraised of what is going on - but he's more of a headfigure at this point than an active owner.

This is not a new process Cincy78. This is how Brown has always run the organizations CAP (passed on to Katie). What is new, is the willingness to spend on higher priced free agents, (Tobin and Blackburn). But the cap management is still as rock solid as it has always been. Cincy is almost always top 5 in least amount of dead cap, and usually always in the top half of the league in cap space.

 

[Cincyfan78]

This is not a new process Cincy78. This is how Brown has always run the organizations CAP (passed on to Katie). What is new, is the willingness to spend on higher priced free agents, (Tobin and Blackburn). But the cap management is still as rock solid as it has always been. Cincy is almost always top 5 in least amount of dead cap, and usually always in the top half of the league in cap space.

Yes....but no.

Brown was cheap and refused to spend. He refused to pay guys to go away, even if they weren't very good any longer. The cap was in relative good shape because major guys didn't get paid, Free Agents weren't paid, and outside of being a QB - well, you just didn't really get paid. Brown's cap was always in place because he never spent money.

Katie, Troy, and Tobin work the cap that does result in a similar ending, but it's not the same process by a long shot. They spend, but they look at how each signing affects the cap for each year of that contract. This process may result in the same result (cap space) but it's nowhere near how Brown did the process.

 

[cincygrad]

Big day for former Bengal tight ends. Uzomah and Hurst both cut..... Of the two, I'd be more interested in Hurst. I think you can easily get him on cheap and Burrow trusts him.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Yes....but no.

Brown was cheap and refused to spend. He refused to pay guys to go away, even if they weren't very good any longer. The cap was in relative good shape because major guys didn't get paid, Free Agents weren't paid, and outside of being a QB - well, you just didn't really get paid. Brown's cap was always in place because he never spent money.

Katie, Troy, and Tobin work the cap that does result in a similar ending, but it's not the same process by a long shot. They spend, but they look at how each signing affects the cap for each year of that contract. This process may result in the same result (cap space) but it's nowhere near how Brown did the process.

Perhaps, but you don't know this for a fact. You are assuming this is how it was. Cap is in the same situation, so either way it is still run just as well.