Off-Season Thread

[cincygrad]

Chase, Burton, Jones...all 3 guys can fly past defenses....you take the top off, and that screen game, run game with Brown and Gesicki in the middle are going to have a lot of room to operate.

I'm with you on Chase and Burton. We'll see about Jones.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I'm with you on Chase and Burton. We'll see about Jones.

right, Jones is known as a crafty slot guy, basically replacement for boyd. chase and burton are over the top guys.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'm with you on Chase and Burton. We'll see about Jones.

Was #1 in receptions, #2 in yards, and tied 4th or 5th (Can't recall) in TD's his last year - at Purdue of all places.

The guy has speed. From the slot, he'll be able to create a lot of mismatches. I don't think he's going to be a pro-bowl kind of guy, but he's a guy that if he can get 1-1 with the middle defenders - is going to cause issues for defenses looking to try and bubble cover Chase like they did last year.

 

[Cincyfan78]

right, Jones is known as a crafty slot guy, basically replacement for boyd. chase and burton are over the top guys.

Jones is WAY faster than Boyd ever was.

Just look at his return for TD last year. The guy has speed.

 

[cincygrad]

Jones is WAY faster than Boyd ever was.

Just look at his return for TD last year. The guy has speed.

Meh.... Everything in his scouting report says that he is not a separator and multiple scouting reports list speed as an issue not an asset. Alex Ericson also was able to return punts for touchdowns every now and again.

I'll be thrilled to be wrong about Jones - But for now, I'm happy we have other guys in the building.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Meh.... Everything in his scouting report says that he is not a separator and multiple scouting reports list speed as an issue not an asset. Alex Ericson also was able to return punts for touchdowns every now and again.

I'll be thrilled to be wrong about Jones - But for now, I'm happy we have other guys in the building.

Fair - but I think we can agree - that at least Jones has good college productivity to at least think he can be a guy that, as a 3rd option in the slot, can take advantage.

But - I really like Burton...and he adds to a room that needed just a bit more high(er) end talent in the depth area.

 

[cincygrad]

Fair - but I think we can agree - that at least Jones has good college productivity to at least think he can be a guy that, as a 3rd option in the slot, can take advantage.

But - I really like Burton...and he adds to a room that needed just a bit more high(er) end talent in the depth area.

No doubt. Also, if he's healthy, I'm anxious to see if Jones can bring something to the new kick-off return game. The one thing that can't be questioned is that he was a fantastic returner in college. In the NFL that normally only translates to punt returns as kick returns were largely a moot point over the past 5 years. But with the new rules, It will be interesting to see what sorts of skill sets translate.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I watched both in college. Jones had the one good year where AOC locked onto him almost every drop back. Good college WR but was never blown away. Another super senior who benefited from the new Wild West rules of CFB.

Burton produced against better defensive competition. Almost every Alabama game he was the best WR on the field despite bad QB play. Even popped on the screen during his brief stint at Georgia.

I hope they both turn out good. But I’m far more hyped for Burton as a prospect.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I watched both in college. Jones had the one good year where AOC locked onto him almost every drop back. Good college WR but was never blown away. Another super senior who benefited from the new Wild West rules of CFB.

Burton produced against better defensive competition. Almost every Alabama game he was the best WR on the field despite bad QB play. Even popped on the screen during his brief stint at Georgia.

I hope they both turn out good. But I’m far more hyped for Burton as a prospect.

Next year it is likely going to be Chase on one side, Burton on the other, and Jones in the slot. So let's hope they both turn out great.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I watched both in college. Jones had the one good year where AOC locked onto him almost every drop back. Good college WR but was never blown away. Another super senior who benefited from the new Wild West rules of CFB.

Burton produced against better defensive competition. Almost every Alabama game he was the best WR on the field despite bad QB play. Even popped on the screen during his brief stint at Georgia.

I hope they both turn out good. But I’m far more hyped for Burton as a prospect.

No doubt...Burton had a 1st round grade for talent...no comp there.

I just think as a slot guy - when teams are looking at Chase, Burton, and Higgins...Jones is going to be able to make some plays in that role. Again, not a pro-bowl/all-pro guy, but a guy that can hurt defenses who are going to try and play bubble coverages on Chase, or even 2-deep with Burton/Higgins.

 

[cincygrad]

Looks like the best we can do this year is another Super Bowl loss.... Too bad. Who wants to order the rings for Philly?

 

[DanBengalfan]

well, we have his college QB, so we'll see how it goes.

 

[Cincyfan78]

ESPN has an article ranking the rosters of each team. Bengals come in at #7, which actually surprised me a bit. Figured they'd be down around the 10 spot...

Biggest strength was listed as the WR core: Higgins/Chase is a tough duo to beat, and adding in Irwin and Burton help round out some talented depth along with Yoshi and Jones. Nice little tidbit on Irwin: Irwin actually scored higher than Higgins in ESPN's receiver tracking metrics last season and had a receiving DVOA of 20.8%, which ranked 10th among receivers with 10-49 pass targets.

Biggest weakness was listed as the RB. I would have figured it would have been the CB spots considering how bad they played last year (1.7 and 2.0 yards per coverage snap given up which was 8th worst and 2nd worst in the NFL last year). They listed CB as the X-factor, which I do think is fair. The defense isn't going to generate much pressure if the DB's can't improve their coverage. Then again, the DB's also can't cover all day if the DL doesn't get to the QB. I think the additions of Rankins, 2nd year Murphy, and the Freak Jenkins will help increase the pressure and, hopefully, aid in the DB's. Not to mention the addition of Stone at S.

I don't worry much about the RB. I'm high on Brown, and I think Moss is a good fit for where this offense wants to go in the running game. I don't think people appreciate just how bad Mixon was the past 2-3 seasons. His yards after contact, miss tackle rate, yards over expected were all near the absolute bottom of the NFL. Even when the line opened up holes, he could no longer consistently take advantage of those holes. I wish him well, but I think this move was 2 years overdue.

 

[cincygrad]

ESPN has an article ranking the rosters of each team. Bengals come in at #7, which actually surprised me a bit. Figured they'd be down around the 10 spot...

Biggest strength was listed as the WR core: Higgins/Chase is a tough duo to beat, and adding in Irwin and Burton help round out some talented depth along with Yoshi and Jones. Nice little tidbit on Irwin: Irwin actually scored higher than Higgins in ESPN's receiver tracking metrics last season and had a receiving DVOA of 20.8%, which ranked 10th among receivers with 10-49 pass targets.

Biggest weakness was listed as the RB. I would have figured it would have been the CB spots considering how bad they played last year (1.7 and 2.0 yards per coverage snap given up which was 8th worst and 2nd worst in the NFL last year). They listed CB as the X-factor, which I do think is fair. The defense isn't going to generate much pressure if the DB's can't improve their coverage. Then again, the DB's also can't cover all day if the DL doesn't get to the QB. I think the additions of Rankins, 2nd year Murphy, and the Freak Jenkins will help increase the pressure and, hopefully, aid in the DB's. Not to mention the addition of Stone at S.

I don't worry much about the RB. I'm high on Brown, and I think Moss is a good fit for where this offense wants to go in the running game. I don't think people appreciate just how bad Mixon was the past 2-3 seasons. His yards after contact, miss tackle rate, yards over expected were all near the absolute bottom of the NFL. Even when the line opened up holes, he could no longer consistently take advantage of those holes. I wish him well, but I think this move was 2 years overdue.

- The CB spot is the area of biggest variance for me. I can understand the concern, but the upside is also really high. If Hilton can still play at a high level and CTB is fully healthy they have 2 out of 3 positions nailed. If Dax Hill can transition to outside corner, now you're in great shape. The three of them would be some of the most physical corners in the league and could also play a role in run support. I see a lot of potential here. And I'm still high on Turner - He had some good moments last year and he had some struggles as rookie corners do.

- I don't have concern about running back. The advanced metrics say that the running game does very little for offensive efficiency or for expected points added..... And Zac Taylor isn't about to turn into Jim Harbaugh anytime soon. The Bengals are a passing team. What they need is running backs that contribute to the screen game and can actually block when asked. I think Moss and Brown bring some interesting skills to the table and I think the position is an upgrade from what we had with Mixon. As you mentioned, Mixon was bad in our attack.... No other way to justify it.

I like where the roster is right now. When compared to other teams in the AFC, it's hard for me to argue that we are significantly behind anyone. I think Baltimore had the best team last year but they absorbed some significant losses in free agency (mostly a product of not being able to pay all that excellent home grown talent).

 

[CrashDavisSports]

- The CB spot is the area of biggest variance for me. I can understand the concern, but the upside is also really high. If Hilton can still play at a high level and CTB is fully healthy they have 2 out of 3 positions nailed. If Dax Hill can transition to outside corner, now you're in great shape. The three of them would be some of the most physical corners in the league and could also play a role in run support. I see a lot of potential here. And I'm still high on Turner - He had some good moments last year and he had some struggles as rookie corners do.

- I don't have concern about running back. The advanced metrics say that the running game does very little for offensive efficiency or for expected points added..... And Zac Taylor isn't about to turn into Jim Harbaugh anytime soon. The Bengals are a passing team. What they need is running backs that contribute to the screen game and can actually block when asked. I think Moss and Brown bring some interesting skills to the table and I think the position is an upgrade from what we had with Mixon. As you mentioned, Mixon was bad in our attack.... No other way to justify it.

I like where the roster is right now. When compared to other teams in the AFC, it's hard for me to argue that we are significantly behind anyone. I think Baltimore had the best team last year but they absorbed some significant losses in free agency (mostly a product of not being able to pay all that excellent home grown talent).

We are about to have that same issue of not being able to pay all our high end home grown talent. This is the year if we are going to do it.

 

[Cincyfan78]

We are about to have that same issue of not being able to pay all our high end home grown talent. This is the year if we are going to do it.

I have to ask - other than Burrow, Chase, Higgins....

Who is high-end, home grown?

Wilson got paid. Pratt got paid. They both are through next year. Likely 1 re-signs again, and another moves on...but they are good for now.

Battle is in year 2, and he was rated very well by PFF (I think 79 or 80 grade, tops rookie S, IIRC). Turner is in year 2, CTB is in year 3....Hill is in year 3. Not sure I'd call any of those guys high end. CTB has flashed well enough, but isn't high end. Hill went from DB to S back to DB, where he looked better his 1st year. DJ had a rough rookie year, but not unexpected for a rookie DB not taken in the top 20 or whatever...but at this point, none of them are high end.

Murphy? Year 2. Hubbard has been extended a few times, and is nearing 30, and is signed through the '25 season. None of the other backups are high end.

Rankins just signed, Jenkins just drafted, Hill is likely on his last contract...


I do understand what you are getting at to a point, but honestly other than guys who are already signed for a few years, and likely hitting near age 30 when the Bengals tend to move on from guys....the younger guys really haven't shown a ton to say they are high end. The Bengals will likely try to extend a few guys here and there, and then sign a few F/A that are up-commers like they have with guys like Reader was, Rankins is - Stone to fill in the gaps where they don't-re-sign or didn't draft well enough.

I think there is an eye on this, but I don't think there is a big issue going forward. The main issue facing the Bengals was navigating Burrow and then Chase...likely knowing they were tagging Tee all along, and then moving on from him after this season. With the cap going up, I think the Bengals are actually in a good spot - though they will have some positions to start filling at some point.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I have to ask - other than Burrow, Chase, Higgins....

Who is high-end, home grown?

Wilson got paid. Pratt got paid. They both are through next year. Likely 1 re-signs again, and another moves on...but they are good for now.

Battle is in year 2, and he was rated very well by PFF (I think 79 or 80 grade, tops rookie S, IIRC). Turner is in year 2, CTB is in year 3....Hill is in year 3. Not sure I'd call any of those guys high end. CTB has flashed well enough, but isn't high end. Hill went from DB to S back to DB, where he looked better his 1st year. DJ had a rough rookie year, but not unexpected for a rookie DB not taken in the top 20 or whatever...but at this point, none of them are high end.

Murphy? Year 2. Hubbard has been extended a few times, and is nearing 30, and is signed through the '25 season. None of the other backups are high end.

Rankins just signed, Jenkins just drafted, Hill is likely on his last contract...


I do understand what you are getting at to a point, but honestly other than guys who are already signed for a few years, and likely hitting near age 30 when the Bengals tend to move on from guys....the younger guys really haven't shown a ton to say they are high end. The Bengals will likely try to extend a few guys here and there, and then sign a few F/A that are up-commers like they have with guys like Reader was, Rankins is - Stone to fill in the gaps where they don't-re-sign or didn't draft well enough.

I think there is an eye on this, but I don't think there is a big issue going forward. The main issue facing the Bengals was navigating Burrow and then Chase...likely knowing they were tagging Tee all along, and then moving on from him after this season. With the cap going up, I think the Bengals are actually in a good spot - though they will have some positions to start filling at some point.

I guess I was mostly referring to Higgins and Chase. Not sure we can resign Chase or not. If the dude wants $36 to $40 million per year, I am not convinced the Bengals will resign him. With as accurate as Burrow is, is it in our best interest to spend that kind of money on a WR when we can have three B level receivers for that same dough? As I said, I think I was only referring to Higgins and Chase. I hope we resign Chase, but I am wondering if you draft a couple high round WR's and find a veteran B player to help anchor them and move them along. Stagger them so they don't all fall off the books at the same time, and rinse and repeat.

I think our best money will be spent on the oline, dline, secondary and then the receivers as I mentioned.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I guess I was mostly referring to Higgins and Chase. Not sure we can resign Chase or not. If the dude wants $36 to $40 million per year, I am not convinced the Bengals will resign him. With as accurate as Burrow is, is it in our best interest to spend that kind of money on a WR when we can have three B level receivers for that same dough? As I said, I think I was only referring to Higgins and Chase. I hope we resign Chase, but I am wondering if you draft a couple high round WR's and find a veteran B player to help anchor them and move them along. Stagger them so they don't all fall off the books at the same time, and rinse and repeat.

I think our best money will be spent on the oline, dline, secondary and then the receivers as I mentioned.

I don't think signing Chase will be an issue...but we will see. The cap will continue to go up, so there will be room. You can always finagle Burrow's cap hit as well. The cap is a bit of a boogeyman in this way - you can make the numbers work, and the Bengals are typically pretty good at keeping their cap straight.

If a team is going to spend - QB and WR are the top positions (along with OT and DE) where money is going to be spent. You have to have a guy who can throw it and a guy who can catch it. Everyone loves to use Brady and his "cast of 1,000" but in reality he had some damn good guys catching the ball. Welker was a stud. Moss was there. Gronk is a HOF TE. I mean...the money is going to be spent on at least 1 guy who can catch the ball, and with how this league has trended - you need likely 2 (even KC who has done it without Hill since he left has struggled with consistency outside of Kelce - and have put resources into fixing that issue over the past 2 seasons).

Long story short - I think Chase gets paid, and honestly I don't worry about it too much. If he doesn't, he's still here through at least the 26 season when he'll get the tag (and play). Lots of time to continue to find other guys....but, IMO - when you have a top 5 WR - you just pay the man and move on.

 

[cincygrad]

I don't think signing Chase will be an issue...but we will see. The cap will continue to go up, so there will be room. You can always finagle Burrow's cap hit as well. The cap is a bit of a boogeyman in this way - you can make the numbers work, and the Bengals are typically pretty good at keeping their cap straight.

If a team is going to spend - QB and WR are the top positions (along with OT and DE) where money is going to be spent. You have to have a guy who can throw it and a guy who can catch it. Everyone loves to use Brady and his "cast of 1,000" but in reality he had some damn good guys catching the ball. Welker was a stud. Moss was there. Gronk is a HOF TE. I mean...the money is going to be spent on at least 1 guy who can catch the ball, and with how this league has trended - you need likely 2 (even KC who has done it without Hill since he left has struggled with consistency outside of Kelce - and have put resources into fixing that issue over the past 2 seasons).

Long story short - I think Chase gets paid, and honestly I don't worry about it too much. If he doesn't, he's still here through at least the 26 season when he'll get the tag (and play). Lots of time to continue to find other guys....but, IMO - when you have a top 5 WR - you just pay the man and move on.

Here's how I see it.....

You have two superstars that will both be here long-term - Burrow and Chase.

The key players for 2024 - Burrow, Chase, Higgins, OBJ, Hendrickson, Hubbard, Rankins, CTB, Hilton, Wilson, Stone. These are your star players and if you get better than their average (or even a career year or two) the team is a major contender. Injuries to a big number of these guys or down years among the group will mean that we fight for our lives for the postseason.

Developmental players that need to become stars or at least core players over the next 2-3 seasons - Some subset of Hill, Battle, Turner, Murphy, Jenkins, Mims, Burton, and Chase Brown. If all of these guys are average at best, we are going to be dependent upon FA to continuously patch holes. While this worked in 2021, that was probably the biggest load ole' Duke will ever blow.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Here's how I see it.....

You have two superstars that will both be here long-term - Burrow and Chase.

The key players for 2024 - Burrow, Chase, Higgins, OBJ, Hendrickson, Hubbard, Rankins, CTB, Hilton, Wilson, Stone. These are your star players and if you get better than their average (or even a career year or two) the team is a major contender. Injuries to a big number of these guys or down years among the group will mean that we fight for our lives for the postseason.

Developmental players that need to become stars or at least core players over the next 2-3 seasons - Some subset of Hill, Battle, Turner, Murphy, Jenkins, Mims, Burton, and Chase Brown. If all of these guys are average at best, we are going to be dependent upon FA to continuously patch holes. While this worked in 2021, that was probably the biggest load ole' Duke will ever blow.

Agreed - and I'll even go as far to say - you could suffer some down years and still be a contender in the post-season because of Burrow and Chase (long term) and of course Higgins this year. Last year was solid from Chase, down a bit for Higgins, and Burrow - well, we know. The defense was abysmal and this team still found a way to win 9 games. I think the depth in general is better than some may think. The issue because - it was too much to ask for some of these guys to come in and hold the fort for 10-11-12 games. They can do it in week 2, and then again in week 6 and then again in week 12...as the situation dictates, but asking these guys to be full time top level starters was too much. They are, however, still very good options for rotational pieces and backups.

I think this team will always look to some F/A. They don't tend to extend guys past their age 30 seasons (or much past it) and you can't hit on every draft pick...so, signings like Brown and Brown, or Hendrickson a few years ago and Awuzie, or Reader and then Rankins...or Stone...are always going to be a part of the plan. The key is to identify the fits for what this team does well, and find guys who can fill those roles, but also don't break the bank. At that, this current stretch under Katie, Troy and Duke have done exceedingly well.