Off-Season Thread

[Cincyfan78]

I imagine Sample is TE 1 or 2. I would like to see us go after Bowers, the TE from Georgia.

If they are in that range for Bowers, I'd prefer a stud RT...

Burrow just isn't a TE target QB - and with Chase and Higgins back in the fold for 1 more year (Tag on Higgins) - I think Hudson/Sample is a solid 1-2 mix and match punch at TE, or they can continue to go the 1 year F/A route as well.

I'd wager that Mixon and Nick Scott are both cuts. Bengals have 5th most cap space at 65M. They could reach 75M with just those 2 moves.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

If they are in that range for Bowers, I'd prefer a stud RT...

Burrow just isn't a TE target QB - and with Chase and Higgins back in the fold for 1 more year (Tag on Higgins) - I think Hudson/Sample is a solid 1-2 mix and match punch at TE, or they can continue to go the 1 year F/A route as well.

I'd wager that Mixon and Nick Scott are both cuts. Bengals have 5th most cap space at 65M. They could reach 75M with just those 2 moves.

We need a solid TE that can be on the field on a regular basis, but this is more for planning if we trade Higgins on the tag, or if he leaves the following year. Prep now, solidify a position of need with a premium player.

They have Bowers all over the place in mocks. As high as 6th overall, to as low as 20th. He is a consensus top 10 pick though, so the likelihood of us being able to draft him is slim to none.

Bowers basically becomes the slot receiver replacing Boyd out of the TE position. He would become the over the middle receiver in the offense.

Oh well. A player I like at RT in the first round based on our drafting slot would be: Amarius Mims, RT from Georgia. Big dude with quality pass and run blocking. Better at pass blocking, but not a slouch on the ground either. He is borderline our range in the 1st.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I wonder if Chase Brown will be our starting RB?

it's possible I guess.

 

[alf8478]

I was hoping that Browning would have played better down the stretch enough to garner some interest from other teams because I had a wild trade idea.

Tag Higgins.
Trade Higgins and Browning for Justin Jefferson and some kind of pick swap.

Higgins is on the tag (approximately $20million) and he'd be cheaper for them to resign than Jefferson.
Jefferson is on his 5th year option ($19.4 million) and there hasn't been any signs of him re-signing.
The money is a wash.
Even if its a 1 year rental for Jefferson, the Bengals would get the same comp pick in 2025 that they would get for Higgins in 25. (I think).
The Bengals get one "all in" year with the LSU reunion.

 

[cincygrad]

If they are in that range for Bowers, I'd prefer a stud RT...

Burrow just isn't a TE target QB - and with Chase and Higgins back in the fold for 1 more year (Tag on Higgins) - I think Hudson/Sample is a solid 1-2 mix and match punch at TE, or they can continue to go the 1 year F/A route as well.

I'd wager that Mixon and Nick Scott are both cuts. Bengals have 5th most cap space at 65M. They could reach 75M with just those 2 moves.

Are we sure Burrow isn't a TE target QB? I mean, he's only had Uzomah, Hurst, and whatever the hell it was that we rolled out there this year. What would happen if he had a tight end that could push the seam in the middle of the field? To me, Burrow is one of the best distributors in the game - He'll generally make the right read and throw it to the open guy. Having more of a threat in the middle of the field will put a stop to some of the cloud and double schemes that teams use against Chase and Higgins.

Same thing can be accomplished a more dynamic slot receiver - As much as I value what Boyd brought to the Bengals, I think his play slipped the last two seasons. Having some speed or quickness at that position could put more pressure on the D and potentially allow us to use more jet-sweeps..... Hell, maybe it will allow Zac to call even more bubble screens which we know would have him excited.

 

[Cincyfan78]

We need a solid TE that can be on the field on a regular basis, but this is more for planning if we trade Higgins on the tag, or if he leaves the following year. Prep now, solidify a position of need with a premium player.

They have Bowers all over the place in mocks. As high as 6th overall, to as low as 20th. He is a consensus top 10 pick though, so the likelihood of us being able to draft him is slim to none.

Bowers basically becomes the slot receiver replacing Boyd out of the TE position. He would become the over the middle receiver in the offense.

Oh well. A player I like at RT in the first round based on our drafting slot would be: Amarius Mims, RT from Georgia. Big dude with quality pass and run blocking. Better at pass blocking, but not a slouch on the ground either. He is borderline our range in the 1st.

I think Burrow and Taylor's offense have both shown they don't need a top end TE to be really good on offense. I think even as Tee leaves (this year or next) it'll be another WR that benefits. It's just how the offense is ran, and the progressions that are done. The RB gets more targets than the TE - and when you also have 2 or 3 solid WR's...that just leaves a guy out - and in this offense it's the TE.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to have an all-around, top tier TE...but first, I'd rather have a really good OL to protect Burrow and help get the ground game where it needs to be. I'll continue to hammer home that, IMO, when the ground game breaks through, this offense will reach new heights - and so will Burrow.

 

[cincygrad]

I think Burrow and Taylor's offense have both shown they don't need a top end TE to be really good on offense. I think even as Tee leaves (this year or next) it'll be another WR that benefits. It's just how the offense is ran, and the progressions that are done. The RB gets more targets than the TE - and when you also have 2 or 3 solid WR's...that just leaves a guy out - and in this offense it's the TE.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to have an all-around, top tier TE...but first, I'd rather have a really good OL to protect Burrow and help get the ground game where it needs to be. I'll continue to hammer home that, IMO, when the ground game breaks through, this offense will reach new heights - and so will Burrow.

Here's what's funny though.... You're right about Taylor and tight ends. The guy wants to run 11 personnel and treat his tight ends like they are nothing ore than checkdown options. But once Burrow went down, he found something with 2 and 3 tight end sets. It was an effective curveball against ways defenses prepare to play us. Maybe he only figured it out because Higgins was hurt and the young guys weren't good enough. I was laughing while watching because this is the year Taylor starts using 3 tight ends at the same time and this is probably the weakest that room has ever been on paper. Anyway, my point is that I hope Taylor has either convinced himself or can now convince Burrow that switching out of 11 from time to time can provide an advantage. Maybe now that he won't have 3 high volume snap receivers on the same roster, he'll feel better about it.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Brock Bowers is a nice player. But I don’t think I can stomach another offseason of melodrama and obsession over the TE position by Bengals fans.

They aren’t picking a TE in the 1st. They didn’t last year. They won’t this year. Bowers probably won’t be there anyway. Saved everybody 4 months of discussion and 3 hours of outrage on draft night.

Moving on.

The Bengals need a philosophy shift in general this offseason. It’s time to let the LSU Burrow days go. No more shotgun empty sets 55 snaps a game. FIND A RUNNING GAME. They are woefully soft in the trenches. Both sides of the ball. The AFC North has figured them out, and has eaten these boys alive 2 seasons in a row.

OL, DL and safety have to be prioritized.

1) OL probably needs to start with evaluating Frank Pollack and making a change there. Yes the Bengals have sucked drafting OL. But there’s a lot of proven FA talent on that line that has regressed 2 years in a row. Brown, Cappa, Karras. All 3 are worse in Cincy than they were elsewhere. Can’t spend that kind of cap and have a marginally better line than the Super Bowl team with Isaiah Prince and Hakeem Adenji on the right side. A simple coaching change might turn this unit around. Might help the running game as well.

2) DL needs a reboot. Particularly at DT. This is where I expect the Bengals to be aggressive in FA and the draft. Obviously Reader is hurt and a FA. Hill is a nice rotational piece but not a starter. They need either another 2 gap man eater like Reader. Or adjust their scheme for more stunts, interior pressure without a true nose. Either way, the Bengals paid 2 LBs who have gotten exposed without Reader tying up blockers to free them up.

DE needs rushing some depth. Hendrickson is obviously great. He also has one year left on his deal. Hubbard is more run stuffer than pass rusher. Myles Murphy showed some flashes but still has a lot of room to improve. Everybody after that is invisible. Remember when Joesph Ossai sacked Tom Brady that one time? The good ol’ days…

3) CB/S is full of youth. And question marks. Losing Bates/Bell crushed this unit. The Bengals prepared for this by drafting 4 DBs in the top two rounds in 2022-23. CTB is very good. A CB1 when healthy. Turner looked like a rookie all year. Great closing speed but got ripped to shreds as a CB1 when CTB went down. He’s a rookie that was asked a lot. I think he’ll be a solid 2 in time. Awuzie looks cooked. Might bring him back for cheap and see if another year removed from the ACL helps. But he was terrible this year.

Dax Hill worries me. He looked lost out there for the majority of the year. Bad angles as a tackler. The Pickens TD in Pittsburgh comes to mind. But then again his stats are far off Bates first 2 years before they signed Vonn Bell.

Nick Scott needs to go. Whiff of a signing. The Jordan Battle pick bailed them out. He seems to have it. Badass run defender. Reminds me of Bell. Could be the starter next year. But a veteran pickup is needed here badly. They also didn’t replace Tre Flowers which killed them in TE coverage all year.

4) WR/TE will be interesting. I find it far more likely the Bengals tag Tee and draft his replacement in the first 2 rounds than anything else. Boyd won’t be here next year. One of the draft picks from this year will have to step up. The Irv Smith experiment was a bust. Bring back Sample and Hudson. A draft pick couldn’t hurt here. But the Bowers pipe dream is just that.

5) RB. Thank you for your service Joe Mixon. But it’s time to move on. Chase Brown is gonna be good. Reminds me of Austin Ekeler. Pair him with a younger cheaper power back and make it a goal to establish the run in 2024. Makes the offense less predictable. More Burrow under center. More play action. More options.

 

[DanBengalfan]

i think mixon is here next season. still under contract.

 

[cincygrad]

Brock Bowers is a nice player. But I don’t think I can stomach another offseason of melodrama and obsession over the TE position by Bengals fans.

They aren’t picking a TE in the 1st. They didn’t last year. They won’t this year. Bowers probably won’t be there anyway. Saved everybody 4 months of discussion and 3 hours of outrage on draft night.

Moving on.

The Bengals need a philosophy shift in general this offseason. It’s time to let the LSU Burrow days go. No more shotgun empty sets 55 snaps a game. FIND A RUNNING GAME. They are woefully soft in the trenches. Both sides of the ball. The AFC North has figured them out, and has eaten these boys alive 2 seasons in a row.

OL, DL and safety have to be prioritized.

1) OL probably needs to start with evaluating Frank Pollack and making a change there. Yes the Bengals have sucked drafting OL. But there’s a lot of proven FA talent on that line that has regressed 2 years in a row. Brown, Cappa, Karras. All 3 are worse in Cincy than they were elsewhere. Can’t spend that kind of cap and have a marginally better line than the Super Bowl team with Isaiah Prince and Hakeem Adenji on the right side. A simple coaching change might turn this unit around. Might help the running game as well.

2) DL needs a reboot. Particularly at DT. This is where I expect the Bengals to be aggressive in FA and the draft. Obviously Reader is hurt and a FA. Hill is a nice rotational piece but not a starter. They need either another 2 gap man eater like Reader. Or adjust their scheme for more stunts, interior pressure without a true nose. Either way, the Bengals paid 2 LBs who have gotten exposed without Reader tying up blockers to free them up.

DE needs rushing some depth. Hendrickson is obviously great. He also has one year left on his deal. Hubbard is more run stuffer than pass rusher. Myles Murphy showed some flashes but still has a lot of room to improve. Everybody after that is invisible. Remember when Joesph Ossai sacked Tom Brady that one time? The good ol’ days…

3) CB/S is full of youth. And question marks. Losing Bates/Bell crushed this unit. The Bengals prepared for this by drafting 4 DBs in the top two rounds in 2022-23. CTB is very good. A CB1 when healthy. Turner looked like a rookie all year. Great closing speed but got ripped to shreds as a CB1 when CTB went down. He’s a rookie that was asked a lot. I think he’ll be a solid 2 in time. Awuzie looks cooked. Might bring him back for cheap and see if another year removed from the ACL helps. But he was terrible this year.

Dax Hill worries me. He looked lost out there for the majority of the year. Bad angles as a tackler. The Pickens TD in Pittsburgh comes to mind. But then again his stats are far off Bates first 2 years before they signed Vonn Bell.

Nick Scott needs to go. Whiff of a signing. The Jordan Battle pick bailed them out. He seems to have it. Badass run defender. Reminds me of Bell. Could be the starter next year. But a veteran pickup is needed here badly. They also didn’t replace Tre Flowers which killed them in TE coverage all year.

4) WR/TE will be interesting. I find it far more likely the Bengals tag Tee and draft his replacement in the first 2 rounds than anything else. Boyd won’t be here next year. One of the draft picks from this year will have to step up. The Irv Smith experiment was a bust. Bring back Sample and Hudson. A draft pick couldn’t hurt here. But the Bowers pipe dream is just that.

5) RB. Thank you for your service Joe Mixon. But it’s time to move on. Chase Brown is gonna be good. Reminds me of Austin Ekeler. Pair him with a younger cheaper power back and make it a goal to establish the run in 2024. Makes the offense less predictable. More Burrow under center. More play action. More options.

I agree with most of your points. I'm also concerned about Dax Hill, but I wonder how much of it is that his confidence was shattered somewhere in the middle of the season. I don't have the PFF grades, but it seems to me that he was better earlier in the season and was particularly bad the last 3 or 4 weeks. Playing with Nick Scott to start the season definitely didn't help and losing CTB hurt the entire unit. He has great athletic tools.... Maybe he just needs another year. Or maybe he's really a slot corner and we need to start thinking about the transition plan for Hilton.

I also don't think we are drafting a tight end and I don't think we should take one very high. As you indicate, we desperately need defensive line help. I'm also okay with offensive line help. We need to attack the area in FA and revisit it in the draft as well. We need to get stronger up front.

If we want to make the offense better, we need to draft better athletes. The line is full of guys with low athletic scores. Even are weapons, outside of Chase and Chase are awful slow. We need speed and athleticism on offense. If the choice were between a tight end or a Tank Dell type slot receiver in the draft, I'm taking the slot receiver.

 

[cincygrad]

One other issue about the safeties. This is likely reading too much into things, but what are we to make of Jesse Bates having the best year of his career in his first year in Atlanta? Maybe he just wasn't as worried about the contract and that made him play faster. But I also wonder if Lou's schemes are so dependent upon coverage trade-offs and complicated coverage schemes that the guys can't play downhill. As big of a disaster as Nick Scott was, I don't think we saw that coming. He was serviceable in LA. Dax looks lost. Battle seems to be okay but is well known for his football IQ.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

I agree with most of your points. I'm also concerned about Dax Hill, but I wonder how much of it is that his confidence was shattered somewhere in the middle of the season. I don't have the PFF grades, but it seems to me that he was better earlier in the season and was particularly bad the last 3 or 4 weeks. Playing with Nick Scott to start the season definitely didn't help and losing CTB hurt the entire unit. He has great athletic tools.... Maybe he just needs another year. Or maybe he's really a slot corner and we need to start thinking about the transition plan for Hilton.

I also don't think we are drafting a tight end and I don't think we should take one very high. As you indicate, we desperately need defensive line help. I'm also okay with offensive line help. We need to attack the area in FA and revisit it in the draft as well. We need to get stronger up front.

If we want to make the offense better, we need to draft better athletes. The line is full of guys with low athletic scores. Even are weapons, outside of Chase and Chase are awful slow. We need speed and athleticism on offense. If the choice were between a tight end or a Tank Dell type slot receiver in the draft, I'm taking the slot receiver.

You hit the nail on the head here. Watch the Miami Dolphins and tell me it wouldn’t be fun to watch Burrow run an offense like that. Trackstars like Achane, Waddle, Mostert. We have our Tyreek already in Chase.

The missing ingredient is athletic maulers up front. And size speed guys who can break one from any point on the field.

 

[DanBengalfan]

I'm starting to think its time to shore up the defense. we have some pieces, but our defense is no longer the dominant force that got us to our #2 and #3 finishes.

the OL isn't great, and could use some improvement.

might be boring, but focus on defense while also trying to improve on the OL

 

[Cincyfan78]

Burrow admits “we’ll see” about Tee Higgins potentially returning but “I expect Tee to be back.”

Pointed out that sentiment exists in the locker room.

 

[DanBengalfan]

yea. not like he's going to take a deep pay cut to keep him on the roster. a good QB knows he can get the job done with any decent receiver.

 

[Cincyfan78]

yea. not like he's going to take a deep pay cut to keep him on the roster. a good QB knows he can get the job done with any decent receiver.

Yeah, he's gotten it done with an aging Boyd, Irwin, and Trent as the main WR's...

What Burrow needs is an OL that can hold up and a running game that can keep the DL honest. Give Burrow those 2 things, and the rest is easy money.

 

[cincygrad]

Burrow admits “we’ll see” about Tee Higgins potentially returning but “I expect Tee to be back.”

Pointed out that sentiment exists in the locker room.

I'd put it at 90% that Tee plays on the tag next year. I'll say there is a 5% shot at a long-term deal, a 3% shot that we'll tag and trade him and a 2% shot we let him leave. It's just not in the Bengals DNA to let a guy walk when they control their situation. The tag and trade strategy is one that has had mixed results. Sure, the Vikings ended up swapping Diggs for JJ - But if Philly makes the right pick right before them, they end up with Raeger. The Titans traded AJ Brown and now they have Treylon Burks - A guy that has some promise, but isn't nearly the level of AJ Brown. And the Titans were basically in cap hell which necessitated that move.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'd put it at 90% that Tee plays on the tag next year. I'll say there is a 5% shot at a long-term deal, a 3% shot that we'll tag and trade him and a 2% shot we let him leave. It's just not in the Bengals DNA to let a guy walk when they control their situation. The tag and trade strategy is one that has had mixed results. Sure, the Vikings ended up swapping Diggs for JJ - But if Philly makes the right pick right before them, they end up with Raeger. The Titans traded AJ Brown and now they have Treylon Burks - A guy that has some promise, but isn't nearly the level of AJ Brown. And the Titans were basically in cap hell which necessitated that move.

AND....

They have plenty of cap room to absorb that hit and still be fairly active in other areas. THAT, to me, is the key here. If they didn't have the room...he'd be gone.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

AND....

They have plenty of cap room to absorb that hit and still be fairly active in other areas. THAT, to me, is the key here. If they didn't have the room...he'd be gone.

Isn't a transition tag a 1st and 3rd rounder? We could afford to let Tee go if we get at least a 1st rounder back for him and anything else on top of that would be cream on top. Plus, if no one paid that price for Tee, we get him at top 10 money instead of top 5 money. Is that how the transition tag works?

 

[alf8478]

Isn't a transition tag a 1st and 3rd rounder? We could afford to let Tee go if we get at least a 1st rounder back for him and anything else on top of that would be cream on top. Plus, if no one paid that price for Tee, we get him at top 10 money instead of top 5 money. Is that how the transition tag works?

Transition tag just gives the team the right to match the contract, I believe.