Off-season news 2024

[JMR]

The only question will be is will he be playing in 51% of their snaps this year?

I really doubt it. Probably 10-15 per game max. I bet they put him out there for some short yardage & GL 3rd/4th downs as a run/pass threat, other plays as a decoy, then a few gadget plays.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The Howell trade is growing on me... I'm liking it... At first, it was just shocking to me because it came out of left field and really wasn't on anyone's radar...

What's crazy is that the Commanders got more for Howell than the Bears did for Fields and Patriots did for Mac Jones... They were all 3 taken in the same draft... But we've got to realize that more teams were pursuing Howell than they were Fields/Jones... It was stated that "multiple teams" were in pursuit of Howell... Same wasn't said about Fields, Jones... High demand drove up the trade value...

I'd bet a large sum of money lots of teams inquired about Fields. Those "multiple teams" for Howell were likely Steelers and Eagles who were also in talks about Fields and who is JS source for the interest in Howell? Washington seems to be the only possible source and thus should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[JMR]

The Howell trade is growing on me... I'm liking it... At first, it was just shocking to me because it came out of left field and really wasn't on anyone's radar...

What's crazy is that the Commanders got more for Howell than the Bears did for Fields and Patriots did for Mac Jones... They were all 3 taken in the same draft... But we've got to realize that more teams were pursuing Howell than they were Fields/Jones... It was stated that "multiple teams" were in pursuit of Howell... Same wasn't said about Fields, Jones... High demand drove up the trade value...

I think it was Flyer who mentioned it previously, but this might be an indication of how the league values cap space when it comes to a QB2, which all 3 of those QBs are at this point. We are paying our QB2 a fraction of what those other teams are paying Fields & Mac Jones, and we have Howell at that price for 2 seasons. Mac Jones just doesn't look like an NFL starter at this point. Fields might be. Howell might be.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The Howell trade is growing on me... I'm liking it... At first, it was just shocking to me because it came out of left field and really wasn't on anyone's radar...

What's crazy is that the Commanders got more for Howell than the Bears did for Fields and Patriots did for Mac Jones... They were all 3 taken in the same draft... But we've got to realize that more teams were pursuing Howell than they were Fields/Jones... It was stated that "multiple teams" were in pursuit of Howell... Same wasn't said about Fields, Jones... High demand drove up the trade value...

I do find Howell intriguing TBH.

 

[JMR]

The Howell trade is growing on me... I'm liking it... At first, it was just shocking to me because it came out of left field and really wasn't on anyone's radar...

I do find Howell intriguing TBH.

The move came out of nowhere, but I can't really find much to dislike about it. If all we end up getting from it is a decent backup for 2 years, I think it's a screamin deal for what we paid (to include cap cost of less than the vet min). So we at least have a backup under contract for 2 seasons, with the potential that he's our starting QB in 2025 at just over $1M. We don't know if he can be a legit NFL starter, but there are a lot of smart football people out there with high opinions of him.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Howell was a cheap QB2 that started on the worst team in football, had just turned 23, and was asked to throw 600+ attempts his first year, with a terrible FO and coaching staff too boot lol.

Will he be a starter? Probably not. He was for 1 year... albeit not a good one (most sacks, most INTs, not a good yards per adjusted attempt). That said, not many QBs would be good on that dumpster fire which is why I think Daniels/Maye are going to have a real 'fun time'. Pickett/Fields/Jones all had FAR better teams (and even coaches - maybe Bears could be argued against) than Howell. I get Jones didn't have much offense, but at least he had a top 10 defense.

Anyway, the $1M each year over 2 years is a big thing. Pickett is $4.6M this year, Jones is $2.6M (on final year), and Fields is $3M (on final year). Paying an extra $2M to Fields or Jones or nearly $4M to Pickett means we may not be able to sign someone like Dodson or Baker - and I think we'd all agree we'd rather have that then Fields. And had we signed Fields, what are you gonna do, make him your STARTER in 2025 when he's now 4 years in having done nothing? Right... So now in 2025 if you move on from Geno you're right back to needing to find a starter AND a backup... it's not like we don't have receivers and runningbacks (Jesus we have a ton of em') - I don't want stupid ass Fields running the ball around and fumbling like he does. Least Howell through 600 passing attempts hangs onto the fuckin' ball. And before someone argues INTs or sacks, if Fields threw for 600 pass attempts based on his stats, he'd have MORE sacks and about the same INTs... okay so he runs the ball better... and fumbles it btw.

I think the contract was the most attractive thing in a cap tight league and Seattle was willing to pay a little extra. I also think Howell generated a lot of intrigue from teams based on his attitude and work ethic. The kid tries and has a good mentality and willingness to learn. I think the league acknowledges that he COULD elevate to a starter given he actually has a functional coach and actual fuckin' defense/offense around him instead of the College caliber team the Commanders assembled.


There's a reason Fields went for the a 7th round pick effectively (conditional whatever): Because NOBODY WANTED HIM. Oh wait oh right, the Steelers FO is GENIUS! Give me a fuckin' break.

 

[flyerhawk]

The move came out of nowhere, but I can't really find much to dislike about it. If all we end up getting from it is a decent backup for 2 years, I think it's a screamin deal for what we paid (to include cap cost of less than the vet min). So we at least have a backup under contract for 2 seasons, with the potential that he's our starting QB in 2025 at just over $1M. We don't know if he can be a legit NFL starter, but there are a lot of smart football people out there with high opinions of him.

I was listening to Randy Mueller's podcast and he was really bullish on the Seahawks getting Howell. In his opinion, the Seahawks were able to seize on the WTF's urge to just clean house and get a QB with some notable upside for relatively very little in compensation.

It's entirely possible, likely even, that Howell will never be more than a backup QB. But there is at least some reason to believe that he could be a competent starting QB. Mueller thinks that Howell could even wind up being the starter by year's end.

Factor in that he costs less than 1 million in cap and you have what appears to be a great deal for the Hawks.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Seattle was willing to pay a little extra

Bravo, see it's OK to admit JS paid extra likely because he likes some of Howell traits despite his obvious flaws. Normally I won't mind the cost but dang there is a lot riding on this draft and with no second round pick it's really pushing things to trade down in round 3 and 5. As I said though I sort of like Howell possibilities.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Bravo, see it's OK to admit JS paid extra likely because he likes some of Howell traits despite his obvious flaws. Normally I won't mind the cost but dang there is a lot riding on this draft and with no second round pick it's really pushing things to trade down in round 3 and 5. As I said though I sort of like Howell possibilities.

Well, as my post states we also needed the contract to be cheaper as we're well into the negative at this point with the Dodson/Baker signing. I know Spotrac shows $19M but it doesn't include the draft (~$8M), like 5 of our acquired free agents who are all 1-2 year deals.

And then you get that cheaper for next year too and don't have another backup QB situation. I think almost EVERY GM would've paid a little extra for that... Seattle just out-bid the others slightly because honestly we are VERY tight on cap. As of now if you take into account the draft (hell even without it) we are NEGATIVE cap space and not by an immaterial amount, probably well over -$10M - I get guys will be cut... but still.

And there is a lot riding on this draft. But I'd rather have a backup who can also be in the system for 2 years, then being forced to draft one or a runningback playing QB who no team in the NFL wanted. So you'd rather just have some crappy backup QB who can only run the ball and fumbles a lot too boot? mmmm. So if the plan was NOT to draft a QB, good - we don't have to entertain it now, have a backup for cheap that COULD be a starter some day, and yes we lose a mid 3rd, but gain an early 4th... difference in caliber of player certainly can't be ignored, but it's not the massive disparity I think everyone is freaking out about.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Well, as my post states we also needed the contract to be cheaper as we're well into the negative at this point with the Dodson/Baker signing. I know Spotrac shows $19M but it doesn't include the draft (~$8M), like 5 of our acquired free agents who are all 1-2 year deals.

$5M for Lock wasn't an option, being FORCED to spend a 3rd on a QB we may not even like is a problem (when one of them is older than Howell lol), and I know you're thinking - so you're arguing $2M for Fields was a problem? Yah, I actually think it was.

Howell, Fields and Jones all were cheap salary wise. The cap after all is 255 million so 2 millions is peanuts and if cap space was the issue restructure of Metcalf or Dre'mont could save 6 million for either according to spotrac. The draft capitol given up was more important then saving 2 million. Lets face it the salary slant is just JS justifying over paying in draft capitol. Why did he do the trade? Obviously is intrigued with Howell.

 

[flyerhawk]

Bravo, see it's OK to admit JS paid extra likely because he likes some of Howell traits despite his obvious flaws. Normally I won't mind the cost but dang there is a lot riding on this draft and with no second round pick it's really pushing things to trade down in round 3 and 5. As I said though I sort of like Howell possibilities.

So what do you think the Seahawks should have done instead.

It's all well and good to say that they should have made a better deal. Assuming that hypnotism wasn't an option and what was the other deal that they should have done instead? Give up a 5th rounder entirely for Howell? Give up a 6th rounder for Field or Jones?

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Howell, Fields and Jones all were cheap salary wise. The cap after all is 255 million so 2 millions is peanuts and if cap space was the issue restructure of Metcalf or Dre'mont could save 6 million for either according to spotrac. The draft capitol given up was more important then saving 2 million. Lets face it the salary slant is just JS justifying over paying in draft capitol. Why did he do the trade? Obviously is intrigued with Howell.

Just saying there's two parts and I think you can agree on both.

1st part - most important:
The player. It's fairly obvious a lot of teams don't consider Fields a QB and simply didn't want him. He's a runningback who throws an awful ball. He has an injury history, fumbles a lot, and has 3 years now (with his final having pretty good talent surrounding him, and a decent D) of doing jack crap.

I don't want a CRAPPY backup QB who if he has to come in could just get injured as well. I'd rather shoot for a QB who MIGHT have a shot. I mean I go back to Trey Lance. Does anyone think Trey Lance is going to come in and save the day if Dak goes out? Hell Lance couldn't even beat out Cooper Rush and was put on the reserve/3rd string. I see a similar future for Fields. Great, you gave up a 7th round... for a terrible backup with no future that played on a pretty solid team to begin with. I'd rather have one with a future who has a good work ethic/mentality (Howell does) and did what he could with the worst team in football. I guess technically the Panthers were 'worse', whatever.

2nd part - not as important but still a factor:
I actually think the $1.5-2M is relevant. We may have to restructure BOTH Dre'Mont and Metcalf to make this work as is, which is not optimal... Or pull tenders on Rhattigan/Jackson (I'd really like to keep Jackson and if we cut Rhattigan we have to pray Baker/Dodson can play every snap and stay 100% healthy - yikes). AND, if we have to restructure BOTH Jones/Metcalf, well then at least we have a backup (at a minimum) who only costs $1M next year without having to blow a pick on a QB 'because'.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

I think it was Flyer who mentioned it previously, but this might be an indication of how the league values cap space when it comes to a QB2, which all 3 of those QBs are at this point. We are paying our QB2 a fraction of what those other teams are paying Fields & Mac Jones, and we have Howell at that price for 2 seasons. Mac Jones just doesn't look like an NFL starter at this point. Fields might be. Howell might be.

never had much of a chance in DC thanks to a bad line and awful play calling.could shine with better of both

 

[flyerhawk]

Howell, Fields and Jones all were cheap salary wise. The cap after all is 255 million so 2 millions is peanuts and if cap space was the issue restructure of Metcalf or Dre'mont could save 6 million for either according to spotrac. The draft capitol given up was more important then saving 2 million. Lets face it the salary slant is just JS justifying over paying in draft capitol. Why did he do the trade? Obviously is intrigued with Howell.

That is completely the wrong way of looking at the salary cap. The aggregate cap is meaningless. What matters is operating cap space. And every dollar matters in that regards.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

That is completely the wrong way of looking at the salary cap. The aggregate cap is meaningless. What matters is operating cap space. And every dollar matters in that regards.

There still are options to create cap space if needed or desired. I only mentioned total cap space to get a overview of how little 2 million is in regard to the cap. The draft only has 7 picks so moves that degrade those picks I feel have more impact. The over pay in draft capitol isn't normally a big deal certainly peanuts compared to the over pay in draft capitol for Jamaal Adams for example. However the Seahawks are lean in draft capitol before this trade they had pick 16 then were going to have to wait until pick 78, then he down trades pick 78 24 spots AND downgrades pick 153 27 spots. Seahawks have some obvious holes but beyond that could use additional help in many positions and the draft has some tempting upgrades (potentially) at some positions that the Seahawks are going to miss out on.
We can revisit this after the draft and discuss how we feel about the price tag then.

 

[flyerhawk]

There still are options to create cap space if needed or desired. I only mentioned total cap space to get a overview of how little 2 million is in regard to the cap. The draft only has 7 picks so moves that degrade those picks I feel have more impact. The over pay in draft capitol isn't normally a big deal certainly peanuts compared to the over pay in draft capitol for Jamaal Adams for example. However the Seahawks are lean in draft capitol before this trade they had pick 16 then were going to have to wait until pick 78, then he down trades pick 78 24 spots AND downgrades pick 153 27 spots. Seahawks have some obvious holes but beyond that could use additional help in many positions and the draft has some tempting upgrades (potentially) at some positions that the Seahawks are going to miss out on.
We can revisit this after the draft and discuss how we feel about the price tag then.

You keep saying it was an overpay. What was the appropriate compensation that the Commanders should have received from the Seahawks?

 

[HaroldSeattle]

You keep saying it was an overpay. What was the appropriate compensation that the Commanders should have received from the Seahawks?

6th round pick preferably in 2025. That's the going rate for young QBs teams are moving on from like Jones and Field.

 

[flyerhawk]

6th round pick preferably in 2025. That's the going rate for young QBs teams are moving on from like Jones and Field.

Mac Jones was traded for a 2024 pick. Justin Fields was traded for a conditional 2025 pick that could be a 4th round pick if he becomes the starter for the Steelers.

So you think that Sam Howell is roughly the same as Mac Jones?

Personally I prefer keeping draft picks and I would rather a slot swap than losing picks but to each their own.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

So you think that Sam Howell is roughly the same as Mac Jones?

Feel Howell price tag should of been roughly the same as Jones and Fields. Lets revisit this after the draft.

 

[flyerhawk]

Feel Howell price tag should of been roughly the same as Jones and Fields. Lets revisit this after the draft.

You think that those 2 pick swaps are significantly more than giving up an actual pick?

What will we learn after the draft? That we could have drafted a bunch of guys we never saw play had we not made that trade? How bout we look at this offseason after next season?