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O-line

maniax

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Is it too soon to panic with the O-line?
I'm actually happy the Saints blitzed so much it was a good wakeup call.

Do we:

1) keep the line as-is?

2) keep Davis at the starting RT position or start Boone or get a free agent?

3) keep Rachal at RG or put Snyder in there or go get a free agent RT?
(Leonard Davis?)

The protection was very worrisome.
 

NinerSickness

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You beat me to it. I was gonna make a thread about the OL. It was horrendous. I'm not going to abandon ship after a PRESEASON game, but it looks pretty ugly so far.

I think I tallied 2 sacks given up by Staley, 2 by Davis and 1 by Rachal. Is that right?

Staley is the one about whom I'm the most worried. If he doens't show that he can be a good, healthy OLT this year he needs to either move to another position or the Niners need to cut him. He's not going to move to LG, so maybe C...

What about Davis? If it's clear he can't handle DEs he's going to need to move to RG. That would mean the Niners don't re-sign Rachal. They'd need a RT and possibly a LT.

The OL is the most frustrating part of the team because the Niners have invested so much into it. And I didn't really like any of the picks they made on it except Iupati.
 

I_am_1z

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Is it too soon to panic with the O-line?
I'm actually happy the Saints blitzed so much it was a good wakeup call.

Do we:

1) keep the line as-is?

2) keep Davis at the starting RT position or start Boone or get a free agent?

3) keep Rachal at RG or put Snyder in there or go get a free agent RT?
(Leonard Davis?)

The protection was very worrisome.

On the stat sheet it says Davis gave up a sack, but when you look at the play, Alex had a pocket to step-up into to avoid Will Smith. I believe it was the play before that, initially Davis looked to be beat, but when the rusher began making the bend for the sack, Davis literally frog splashed the guy. The difference of the two plays being Alex stepped up on only one of them.

NFL Game Center: San Francisco 49ers at New Orleans Saints - 2011 Preseason Week 1 :30 second mark
 

NinerSickness

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Adam Snyder is simply too tall to get any leverage at C. If you watch him pass block he looks like Vlade Divac boxing someone out. But that's no surprise...

If Rachal doesn't step it up he's gonna be the next Justin Smiley / David Baas failed experiment at guard. I still say he's probably a better fit at C than RG.
 

CalamityX11

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Baas played well at C IMO.... think we lost a lot of muscle at the C with his departure.

Davis needs to learn how to block DEs... I know he was raw coming out but let's see the work man! Will Smith at his age should not be beating Ts around the edge as frequent as he did(you too Staley!)
 

NinerSickness

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Baas played well at C IMO.... think we lost a lot of muscle at the C with his departure.

Agreed. I think he was always a C playing G rather than the other way around.
 

I_am_1z

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Did anyone else forget that Aubrayo Franklin and Shaun Rogers are on the Saints?
 

notmyfault

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I was utterly disappointing with our OL. I thought that our OL was the one unit which was mostly unchanged - minus Baas' departure - and would be solid for us. I wasn't expecting them to be this terrible.

I've given up on Rachal...he just does not GET IT. Also, with all the reports from camp that Snyder was doing well, I thought it was going to be another smooth transition...sorta in the same mold as Baas to center. Thank god we picked up Goodwin, because Snyder got manhandled.
 

MW49ers5

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Adam Snyder is simply too tall to get any leverage at C. If you watch him pass block he looks like Vlade Divac boxing someone out. But that's no surprise...

If Rachal doesn't step it up he's gonna be the next Justin Smiley / David Baas failed experiment at guard. I still say he's probably a better fit at C than RG.

IMO, Rachal is at his best when he is pulling, other than that he is a libility at any position on the o'line.
 

MW49ers5

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For the most part I agree with Sick

Staley has been unable to handle his inside shoulder since he moved to LT. He gets blown-up in that alignment constantly. He does an ok job on pushes and penalties, but I am done believing his strengths out weigh his weaknesses and I would like to see him either pushed down on the depth, moved, cut or traded.

I would start practicing:

Boone @ LT & Staley @ RT
or
Boone @ LT & keep Davis @ RT
or
Boone @ RT & keep Staley @ LT

In any event, we need to do something and not just with the tackles.
 

NinerSickness

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Unfortunately Boone is worse than any of them IMO, and nothing he's done in the limited time he's played has made me believe otherwise.
 

MW49ers5

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Unfortunately Boone is worse than any of them IMO, and nothing he's done in the limited time he's played has made me believe otherwise.

This may be just another one of those circumstances where we are starting money over talent. You may be right, but it's time to take guessing out of the equation, let's put Boone on team 1 and see what we have. We just need to do something.
 

numone9er

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Unfortunately Boone is worse than any of them IMO, and nothing he's done in the limited time he's played has made me believe otherwise.

Really? You didn't like what you saw from Boone at all last night? I thought he did a solid job at pass blocking.

I'm willing to give our O-line a little more time and i expect Staley to step up to the plate by the time the season starts. He's the last person we should be worrying about, but we all know he's a solid ORT at the very least. A Davis has looked awful. Playing next to Rachal on the right side should give us a solid boost to our run game, but in pass protecting they are awful. I'm less worried about Staley/Iupati/Goodwin and more concerned with Rachal and Davis.
 

NinerSickness

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Really? You didn't like what you saw from Boone at all last night? I thought he did a solid job at pass blocking.

Boone didn't do anything to impress me. He looks like just another backup buried on the depth chart. Any playing time he gets will be a waste of time IMO. Poor man's Adam Snyder. JMHO.

I'm willing to give our O-line a little more time and i expect Staley to step up to the plate by the time the season starts. He's the last person we should be worrying about,

He SHOULD be the last person about whom to worry, but he's not. OLT is still a problem until Staley proves otherwise, and at this point he hasn't. I'm not leaping to conclusions based on one preseason game, but it wasn't a good start.

I'm less worried about Staley/Iupati/Goodwin and more concerned with Rachal and Davis.

Me too. Davis' only saving grace is that he's so young & might get better once his body matures a little more. Rachal... I don't know what to think abuot Rachal. Every time I look at him I'm just pissed McBoosehound didn't listen to me and take Calalias Campbell.
 
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numone9er

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Really? You didn't like what you saw from Boone at all last night? I thought he did a solid job at pass blocking.

Boone didn't do anything to impress me. He looks like just another backup buried on the depth chart. Any playing time he gets will be a waste of time IMO. Poor man's Adam Snyder. JMHO.

I'm willing to give our O-line a little more time and i expect Staley to step up to the plate by the time the season starts. He's the last person we should be worrying about,

He SHOULD be the last person about whom to worry, but he's not. OLT is still a problem until Staley proves otherwise, and at this point he hasn't. I'm not leaping to conclusions based on one preseason game, but it wasn't a good start.

I'm less worried about Staley/Iupati/Goodwin and more concerned with Rachal and Davis.

Me too. Davis' only saving grace is that he's so young & might get better once his body matures a little more. Rachal... I don't know what to think abuot Rachal. Every time I look at him I'm just pissed McBoosehound didn't listen to me and take Calalias Campbell.

Well i may have to disagree with you on Boone for now, but i will be keeping a close eye on him in the mean time.


I know how you feel about Rachal. That was by far the worst draft to have to sit through. I'm not sure Rachal will be back after next year. Kilgore might be just the guy to replace him.
 

deep9er

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yep, we just about know the ceiling for Alex Smith, so next it comes down to the O-line. so even before this game, my interest was the O-line first and foremost? not panicking just yet, they have three more games to improve communication.

not expecting they'll be a top performing unit by regular season game 1, but hoping they get their communication right? at least get assignments right so no one comes in freely.

also, on blitzes, our TE's and RB's have to be in sync too.
 

vvoland

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hey sickness, nice to see you and some of the espn regulars on here. i'm glad i found this place. sorry to see your opinion on the o-line though. not that they were good but there's 2 takeaways for me. i watched last night live on the net and today's replay on tivo [with the saints announcers and the replay button in heavy use] and came up with this

this is my one preface: the saints basically didn't even miss the offseason. brees basically held OTA's, kept the entire team together, and had 20 practices prior to this [compared to the 9ers 12], according to their announcing team. that fact, plus how much they blitzed, allowed me to take a little pressure of the 0-line. instead of an F-- they get a D.

1a. what can i say about rachal that hasn't already been said about syphilis?

1. i thought Iupati was our worst starting lineman not named snyder. i saw every offensive play at least 5 times, focusing on the o-line. iupati was atrocious in PP. in fact, on that first play where smith almost had his head taken off and harper took it in for a fake 6 pts, iupati not only missed the cut on the inside rusher, he also hindered staley's ability to block that very same rusher, and was then late to cover the blitzing corner. you could actually see staley blow up at him and it took me a while to figure out why.. looked like staley gave up the sack but iupati was supposed to chip the inside guy and then pull to the edge. on running plays iupati is great, but he was lost on almost every pass play. staley was atrocious but being a T makes his mistakes visible. iupati was hidden by his position but was our worst lineman in protection.

2. we have no center [just like the warriors, actually]. goodwin needs to get a lot better, quick [and he should, by all accounts]. snyder should never play C again. wragge was a nightmare, even against 3rd stringers. the kid from stanford had like 3 plays. that said, missing the C is like missing the qb. smith/kap can adjust the play but the center makes the protection calls. i think that's why harper [and all the blitzers] were just running down the lane like it was a track. goodwin has been a pro-bowler so i'll give it a pass for this week but if we look like this by the 3rd preseason game, its a problem.

3. i actually thought that davis did a lot better than anyone else on the planet, apparently. other than the one play where he was offside and then beat by will smith, he wasn't atrocious. got lost on a few run plays, but i thought he looked like the most improved lineman. he didn't pick up the DB on that early blitz, but we also had two TEs on that side and a RB in the backfield. instead, but both TEs ran to the same area [though vernon was open and smith may have been able to make that throw, if he wasn't suffering from PTSD] and neither decided to block the oncoming safety. i still think a davis has a lot to learn, but i'm far less worried than i was at the end of last year. he's still far from a solid tackle, but i wouldn't move him yet. we're rebuilding and he has a lot of promise.

4. boone did very well tonight. considering a lot of our starters played against 2nd and 3rd stringers, boone's performance is very relevant. i saw him get beat on only one play and it lead to nothing. he had 3-5 pancakes and didn't flail like staley in run blocking. i was also really impressed by the two young kids. mike person played both T and G and didn't look bad [thats all it takes to really impress me on our Oline]. and the kid from stanford, derek hall, also played both position, though for a less limited amount of time, and looked ok. in fact, i thought our [relative to my expectations] best linemen today were: boone, davis, person, and hall. roughly, in that order.


sorry for the long post, but the line needs a lot of work and i'm just glad to find a board w/o all the garbage at espn.
 
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