Now I hate Andy dalton even more

[cincygrad]

Gotta hand it to MB..... He's already throwing Dalton under the bus for our lousy performance in 2014. You guys think he doesn't think ahead, but I think this proves otherwise. He makes money, if the Bengals suck it's Dalton's fault, we start over with a draft pick in 2015.

Who-Dey!

 

[DanBengalfan]

Whitworth isn't feeling his old self and we dropped Anthony Collins and picked up a 3rd stringer to take his place.

yes, Dalton is going to get hit.

 

[cincygrad]

BTW -- Love the awesome strategy with AJ. We'll force him to stay here through a fourth year of an underpaid rookie contract, a shitty option year that gives him no security, and then a franchise year for a reasonable price. By the time he gets though all of that bullshit, he'll definitely be Bengalized.

The players should be ashamed of themselves.... The owners absolutely took them to the cleaners on the last CBA.

 

[flamingrey]

BTW -- Love the awesome strategy with AJ. We'll force him to stay here through a fourth year of an underpaid rookie contract, a shitty option year that gives him no security, and then a franchise year for a reasonable price. By the time he gets though all of that bullshit, he'll definitely be Bengalized.

The players should be ashamed of themselves.... The owners absolutely took them to the cleaners on the last CBA.

AJ's option year will be for $10 million, not sure I'd consider that "shitty". The franchise after that would get even more expensive. In theory, the tag options sound great from a team perspective, but there's a reason teams aren't using them. This season only 4 players were franchised and 2 transition tagged.

The new CBA is working out as predicted. The first few years, the salaries and all were heavily favored towards the owners. But as we're seeing now, the pendulum is shifting and over the next few years, the salary cap is going to skyrocket and the players will benefit. By the time we reach the end of the contract, it'll likely balance out.

Edit: The players that do get screwed are the top end players that are not drafted in the first round. They're stuck on bad deals for 3 years (Russell Wilson comes to mind). But that was be design by the players as well. They wanted to cut off draft picks so the veterans could be fed. And that's what's happening. The money may not be going to the AJ's as quick, but it is going somewhere. And for the few teams like the Bengals, they're actually forced to spend at least some money.

 

[Cincyfan78]

BTW -- Love the awesome strategy with AJ. We'll force him to stay here through a fourth year of an underpaid rookie contract, a shitty option year that gives him no security, and then a franchise year for a reasonable price. By the time he gets though all of that bullshit, he'll definitely be Bengalized.

The players should be ashamed of themselves.... The owners absolutely took them to the cleaners on the last CBA.

Just an FYI, almost every team is expected to do something similar with their top 10 picks...Peterson, newton, etc...

Not saying I agree, just saying the Bengals will not be the only team doing this, and AJ will be far from the highest profile guy to have this happen to.

 

[cincygrad]

Just an FYI, almost every team is expected to do something similar with their top 10 picks...Peterson, newton, etc...

Not saying I agree, just saying the Bengals will not be the only team doing this, and AJ will be far from the highest profile guy to have this happen to.

I didn't mean to imply it was exclusive to the Bengals -- The players association are idiots.

 

[cincygrad]

AJ's option year will be for $10 million, not sure I'd consider that "shitty". The franchise after that would get even more expensive. In theory, the tag options sound great from a team perspective, but there's a reason teams aren't using them. This season only 4 players were franchised and 2 transition tagged.

The new CBA is working out as predicted. The first few years, the salaries and all were heavily favored towards the owners. But as we're seeing now, the pendulum is shifting and over the next few years, the salary cap is going to skyrocket and the players will benefit. By the time we reach the end of the contract, it'll likely balance out.

Edit: The players that do get screwed are the top end players that are not drafted in the first round. They're stuck on bad deals for 3 years (Russell Wilson comes to mind). But that was be design by the players as well. They wanted to cut off draft picks so the veterans could be fed. And that's what's happening. The money may not be going to the AJ's as quick, but it is going somewhere. And for the few teams like the Bengals, they're actually forced to spend at least some money.

AJ Green is 25 years old. He'll be 26 when the season starts. He could make it all the way until 29 years old with 6 years in the league before the Bengals have to commit to him with a long term deal. Receivers start breaking down at 30.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/articles/age.htm

A running back should never see a long term deal. After Gio's four years are up, we should franchise him for a season and then let him walk.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I didn't mean to imply it was exclusive to the Bengals -- The players association are idiots.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.

You keep the former draft slotting system, and rookies are vastly over-paid, and eat into the Veteran's pay.

You do what you do now, and if there aren't "good" veterans out there to pay, many teams will just sit on the money. Having an 89% floor was a good idea, but I think even better would have been around the 92-93%. You still have to give teams room for incentives and injury issues through the year, but at the same time, you want to make it so teams are spending money.

However, I do like that it averages out through a 4 year period because that way if one year you have some money, and no one is out there worth paying for, you are not "forced" into over-spending.

 

[jwil007]

Peter King nailed it about Dalton on CIncyjungle.. check it out. We better not give this mofo a contract.. I worry about how we plan to do Green though.... We need to snatch Metterberger and let him learn's Hue's Run oriented downfield offense now and start him in 2015... Dalton is going to tank. I will be damn shocked if he takes us back to then playoffs and actually wins..SHOCKED!

 

[alf8478]

Mike Brown should make a lowball offer to Dalton and his people, tell them they have until the draft to sign it, and if they don't they will be drafting his replacement.

...and then I woke up.

 

[Midnightangel]

I see more of Alex Smith. Not quite as smart, but same limited skill set in my mind.

Apologies. I meant that he plays well until he gets to the post season.

 

[bengaldoug]

Apologies. I meant that he plays well until he gets to the post season.

He doesn't play well all season until he gets to the post season. He plays well in small streaks, and then badly in other streaks. Then the playoffs start and he sucks.

 

[JBUCK66]

the 'red roosta'

 

[flamingrey]

AJ Green is 25 years old. He'll be 26 when the season starts. He could make it all the way until 29 years old with 6 years in the league before the Bengals have to commit to him with a long term deal. Receivers start breaking down at 30.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/articles/age.htm

A running back should never see a long term deal. After Gio's four years are up, we should franchise him for a season and then let him walk.

Again, it's the way the players as a whole wanted it. It's worse for 0.2% of players (4 franchised out of the 1696 players eligible to be this season). It's a little less worse for another 5% of players. But it benefits the other 95% of players. IMO, it's one of the smartest things the players did. Took money away from the elite and spread it around, especially to veterans.

In Green's case in your scenario, he'd have made $50 million in his first 6 years in the league. And a player of his caliber would absolutely get one large long term deal, even after 6 years - most likely to be 5.

Also, just to point out, the article you're referencing is 1) very old - "Did you know Marvin Harrison will be 28 this season and Randy Moss only 23? Something to think about for you dynasty league types.", and 2) it calls QB's "old" at 32.

Furthermore to that point, the game and its rules have changed to where offensive players should now be able to last longer, and they do.

 

[flamingrey]

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.

You keep the former draft slotting system, and rookies are vastly over-paid, and eat into the Veteran's pay.

You do what you do now, and if there aren't "good" veterans out there to pay, many teams will just sit on the money. Having an 89% floor was a good idea, but I think even better would have been around the 92-93%. You still have to give teams room for incentives and injury issues through the year, but at the same time, you want to make it so teams are spending money.

However, I do like that it averages out through a 4 year period because that way if one year you have some money, and no one is out there worth paying for, you are not "forced" into over-spending.

No they won't. The teams that have always spent are going to continue to spend regardless of any floor. But now, the teams that would have spent less have to spend to at least 89%. Of course it could be better, but it's much better than before.

 

[cincygrad]

Again, it's the way the players as a whole wanted it. It's worse for 0.2% of players (4 franchised out of the 1696 players eligible to be this season). It's a little less worse for another 5% of players. But it benefits the other 95% of players. IMO, it's one of the smartest things the players did. Took money away from the elite and spread it around, especially to veterans.

In Green's case in your scenario, he'd have made $50 million in his first 6 years in the league. And a player of his caliber would absolutely get one large long term deal, even after 6 years - most likely to be 5.

Also, just to point out, the article you're referencing is 1) very old - "Did you know Marvin Harrison will be 28 this season and Randy Moss only 23? Something to think about for you dynasty league types.", and 2) it calls QB's "old" at 32.

Furthermore to that point, the game and its rules have changed to where offensive players should now be able to last longer, and they do.

The article may be old, but the point remains the same..... I don't believe the rule changes will impact the long term production of receivers. Athletic skills that are important to receivers start to erode after 30. Out of the top ten receivers (in yardage) in 2014, only one of them was over 30. That was Andre Johnson -- And I don't think you'd get much disagreement to the statement that he's not as good as he was three years ago.

 

[cincygrad]

BTW -- The average NFL career length for a first round draft pick is approximately 9 years (attributed to Goodell at some talk he gave -- Not sure if it's accurate). That means a first round pick can be locked into one team for about 2/3 of their career, with a little less than half of the career being a rookie contract.

 

[cincygrad]

More on the Dalton situation

Marvin Lewis pushes for Dalton extension

The company line is to throw Dalton under the bus and make him the scapegoat for losing Collins and Johnson. They also would like to call out his representation and blame them for a lack of a longterm deal.

You have to hand it to the Mike and Marvin...... They aren't sane, but they are certainly consistent.

 

[bengaldoug]

More on the Dalton situation

Marvin Lewis pushes for Dalton extension

The company line is to throw Dalton under the bus and make him the scapegoat for losing Collins and Johnson. They also would like to call out his representation and blame them for a lack of a longterm deal.

You have to hand it to the Mike and Marvin...... They aren't sane, but they are certainly consistent.

It's a perfect storm for Mike and Marvin. They know the fanbase isn't solidly behind Dalton to begin with, so he becomes the perfect scapegoat for their evil plan. They throw him under the bus, and when he sucks like we can be pretty sure he will, and the team fails again to win a playoff game, they are vindicated. Dalton either signs the lowball offer or they go another way. Either way Mike saves huge dollars and Marvin gets another extension.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think we are all going about this the wrong way.

Maybe we should start appreciating the hard work that Brown puts in to pull off these moves and still come out like a rose...

All this time, we've focused on winning, playoffs, and championships. We've been misguided!!!