Nos' 2nd Annual NFL Mock Draft : Chat

[ATL96Steeler]

Theoretically I love comparing how good we did, but it just doesn't work... Players that go to the wrong system will just be busts... and that is not necessarily on them... Football in general, I have no clue how to actually rank players because everyones success is based on eachother more than it is on them... You can take the Best QB and put him on the worst offensive line, and he will have trouble... You can have the best offensive line and draft a low end Center, and that center could become a stud, just because he doesn't have to do much else besides his actual job...

Any time a player is a bust, I just assume it is the system...

True... but you have to take that with a grain of salt...imo Clowney is not 3-4 OLB and may never flourish in that system, but he has to get on the field. Sometimes you just miss on a player...they're just never translate to the next level.

TRich....now on his 3rd team...were both the CLE and IND schemes not suitable for a RB?

IMO teams that miss on the trench players, and don't have a consistent QB, typically pick high in the draft every yr.

 

[cdumler7]

Does anyone want to grade my draft? I know I went high risk/high reward with DGB and Ifo but I feel both will be future pro bowl players.

DGB--This pick will either have you looking like a champ or chump. This one is hard to grade so honestly just going to have to give it a C. I do worry though with so much leadership leaving the locker room this off season that bringing in a guy like this will not be to your best interest. I would worry about him influencing some of the other guys. Again though this kid could be huge so hard to ignore that talent.

Michael Bennett--I love this pick! I honestly think by the time the draft roles around this kid will be right in the mix for being a 1st round pick. I"ve watched a handful of his games and each one leaves me going wow this kid is good.

Ifo--Like you said big risk/reward guy here. Not as much as DGB especially with how modern medicine has made these kind of injuries pretty manageable. A little on the short end but the kid plays bigger than his height. He is great in coverage as well as a willing tackler in the run game. To me this is a good pick in the sense the 49ers seem to be in a rebuilding year so year 2 is where you need this kid to shine.

Robert Myers--Good pick. Has a lot of upside and seems like a kid really willing to listen to coaching. Fits well in the power blocking scheme that San Fran likes to run.

Taiwan Jones--Fills the need of that 2-down thumper in the middle. Needs some major work in coverage but with losing so much at the position this off season he is a nice piece to add.

Stefon Diggs--Good potential with this kid. Has some anger issues so again a risky guy to bring in the locker room. His injury scares me a bit as a lacerated kidney does not sound pleasant. Good player from the slot though and offers some on special teams. At this point in the draft this is the type of player you are looking for.

Overall I give this draft a C at this point. Probably no draft has more potential to climb into the category of best draft though depending how some of these guys develop.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

In the NFL you have to draft for now and for the future. After the first 2-3 rounds honestly most of those players are going to be developmental players that you hope can turn into quality starters or role players. Year one usually the most you can hope for is them to help in special teams. I mean look at your draft. After the 1st 2 rounds with Coleman and Scherff the rest are developmental players. Rollins while showing promise only has 1 year or experience and needs at least a year to develop into a quality player and even then he is stuck behind Cro and Revis and possibly Dee Millner. So you just used a mid-round pick on a guy that most likely rides the bench most of the year. How is that different than me taking Grayson in the 4th or whoever took Hundley in the 3rd? Or Waller might be one of the biggest project players in this entire draft. Good chance you don't get much production out of him till year-3. Maybe a couple of red zone touchdowns a year but that is about it. For me I look at I addressed immediate need with Erving (Broncos don't have a ton of holes as they still have 10 Pro Bowl players on the roster from last year) some good role players year one in Kikaha and Hardison who are expected to start year 2, and 2 high risk high reward guys that could be big in year 3 with Grayson and Conley. You are not going to find immediate impact players very often other than maybe 1 or 2 guys. If you are depending on your rookies to be huge impact players right off the bat for the team then you are in trouble.

Now for the Broncos I do think they have built well to set up for a quarterback to come in eventually. Getting Erving fixes whatever the weakest spot on the OL is plus we already have 2 All-Pro players in Vasquez and Clady. Throw in we are not asking Grayson to start right off the bat so still another year to add to the OL if needed. The Broncos at this moment have probably the best 1-2 punch at WR with DT and Sanders with a 2nd round pick used on Latimer last year. They just signed 4 TE's this off season. Finally they have a Pro Bowl RB in Anderson. So this is an offense that will not ask Grayson to have to dominate for it to be successful. He can lean on the running game and trust that his receivers can bail him out every once in a while. He would also be learning under Peyton for a year. See I thought this all through when picking him that this is not in my view a wasted pick but taking a small risk that this guy could develop into a quality player surrounded by quality players. If nothing else every team needs a back up quarterback and with the rookie scale Grayson would be extremely cheap to have as a back up.

I should have probably been more careful with my words... You seem to be one of the most knowledgeable people on here about college football prospects, so maybe I should just give you the benefit of doubt...

And you are correct that there is not much of a difference between having a QB on the bench and having any other position... Maybe the only difference is probability of being affective... But the payoff for a QB is so much higher than any other position, so i guess it is worth the lower probability of success...

 

[cdumler7]

I should have probably been more careful with my words... You seem to be one of the most knowledgeable people on here about college football prospects, so maybe I should just give you the benefit of doubt...

And you are correct that there is not much of a difference between having a QB on the bench and having any other position... Maybe the only difference is probability of being affective... But the payoff for a QB is so much higher than any other position, so i guess it is worth the lower probability of success...

What I know is only a drop in the bucket compared to the people making the real decisions. I just know you have to invest in the quarterback position probably more than any other position on the team. You get that spot right then everything else becomes so much easier. The teams without a quarterback are in deep trouble every single year. Like I said for the Broncos good chance this is Manning's last season and our back up has his contract up after this year so unless we extend him before the draft I would say QB becomes a major need for the team. If nothing else even if we extend Osweiler this gives him a guy to compete with. Competition brings out the best in many of these guys.

 

[Nosferatu]

5.26.162: Tampa Bay:
5.27.163: Minnesota: Cody Riggs - CB/S - Notre Dame
5.28.164: Denver: Xavier Williams - DT - Northen Iowa
5.29.165: Indianapolis: Trey Flowers - DE - Arkansas
5.30.166: Green Bay: Jesse James - TE - Penn St.
5.31.167: Seattle: Jordan Hicks - OLB - Texas
5.32.168: Tampa Bay:
5.33.169: Carolina: Lynden Trail - DE - Norfolk St.
5.34.170: Seattle: OTC
5.35.171: Baltimore: Comp
5.36.172: Kansas City: Comp

 

[MilkSpiller22]

What I know is only a drop in the bucket compared to the people making the real decisions. I just know you have to invest in the quarterback position probably more than any other position on the team. You get that spot right then everything else becomes so much easier. The teams without a quarterback are in deep trouble every single year. Like I said for the Broncos good chance this is Manning's last season and our back up has his contract up after this year so unless we extend him before the draft I would say QB becomes a major need for the team. If nothing else even if we extend Osweiler this gives him a guy to compete with. Competition brings out the best in many of these guys.

I am not necessarily a fan of competition... But for you guys it makes sense... Competition for the Backup and future Starter is very different than competition for the starter... I don't like playing with young players confidence when a team is actually counting on them that season... For example what the Jets did with Mark Sanchez...

 

[cdumler7]

I am not necessarily a fan of competition... But for you guys it makes sense... Competition for the Backup and future Starter is very different than competition for the starter... I don't like playing with young players confidence when a team is actually counting on them that season... For example what the Jets did with Mark Sanchez...

Well to me especially at the quarterback position if you are not strong enough to handle a little bit of competition then you are honestly not strong enough to handle the position. Above any other position the Quarterback has to be mentally tough. And you are right it is not for the starter role so this gives the Broncos some choices after the season where they can either move forward with Grayson or decide that Osweiler deserves to get re-signed. I would rather at this point have too much talent at the QB position than not enough. Have to think with so many teams being quarterback needy say Osweiler does win the competition between the two but Grayson looks good say during preseason. The Broncos then have some trade bate where they can turn that late 4th round pick maybe into a 2nd or if he really shows up a 1st round pick. So yes it is an investment more towards the future than the here and now but the Broncos have to get something figured out this year of what are they doing once Manning retires otherwise they are going to be like the bottom dwelling teams that are in desperate search for a good quarterback.

 

[Clayton]

We should really draft some DEs for Tampa Bay. I dont think they have any on their roster

 

[ATL96Steeler]

What I know is only a drop in the bucket compared to the people making the real decisions. I just know you have to invest in the quarterback position probably more than any other position on the team. You get that spot right then everything else becomes so much easier. The teams without a quarterback are in deep trouble every single year. Like I said for the Broncos good chance this is Manning's last season and our back up has his contract up after this year so unless we extend him before the draft I would say QB becomes a major need for the team. If nothing else even if we extend Osweiler this gives him a guy to compete with. Competition brings out the best in many of these guys.

Today...yes. 20 yrs ago...I'm not sure I would say that...During my 1st stint in ATL in the early 80s...the Falcons were owned by the Smith family...Rankin Smith was the original owner.

He was not a football man, and by many accounts hired people to do football related jobs that were not really professional football people...GM, scouts, etc.

IMO his best hire was Dan Reeves that had control of player personnel...the 1st true football guy with some winning history.

I probably posted to the wrong person but I did comment on your draft...very solid to be picking that far down.

I think Manning is finished as a SB winning QB...this should be his last season period and I think it will be.

 

[Clayton]

As far as i can tell, the key to drafting is nailing the 2nd and 3rd round. Any joe can pick in the first round and from there its luck. Far too often you see teams reaching and failing in rd2 ans rd3 or trading away those picks too easily. The bulkof nfl starters are from those rounds

 

[pantherfanforever11]

can i get a draft grade too lol

 

[The Crimson King]

We should really draft some DEs for Tampa Bay. I dont think they have any on their roster

Cedric Reed, Corey Crawford, Geneo Grissom?

 

[cdumler7]

Today...yes. 20 yrs ago...I'm not sure I would say that...During my 1st stint in ATL in the early 80s...the Falcons were owned by the Smith family...Rankin Smith was the original owner.

He was not a football man, and by many accounts hired people to do football related jobs that were not really professional football people...GM, scouts, etc.

IMO his best hire was Dan Reeves that had control of player personnel...the 1st true football guy with some winning history.

I probably posted to the wrong person but I did comment on your draft...very solid to be picking that far down.

I think Manning is finished as a SB winning QB...this should be his last season period and I think it will be.

Well ok I wouldn't say every franchise is ran well or drafts well and maybe fans could actually do a better job for them. I've met some very intelligent posters that do tons of research for the draft and will spend hours upon hours watching college games to find those guys nobody has ever heard of that all of a sudden become household names in the pros. You are right some franchises make the mistake of not having football people in place but more a bunch of yes men that respond to the owner. It is why the Raiders were so terrible for so long and continue to deal with what Al Davis did to that franchise for the last 10 years of his time there. The Cowboys are getting a little better having some people who will stand up to Jerry Jones and look next thing you know they are in the playoffs again by not going with what Jerry wanted.

As for Manning I am afraid you are right about Manning. I think he will play good enough to get the Broncos to the playoffs once again and win the division but Super Bowl is going to take the rest of the team rising up to a whole new level. Too many teams know that with Manning and his lack of movement in the pocket that you can send pressure up the middle and pretty much destroy the Broncos pass game right now. IT is why I drafted a guy like Erving in he has the strength to handle that kind of pressure up the middle and give Manning maybe that half a second longer before the whole thing collapses on him.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Grade the Raiders, cdumler....

 

[DJ Fieri]

I'm expecting a solid B.

 

[cdumler7]

can i get a draft grade too lol

Shaq Thompson--Well honestly not sure how I feel about this guy. Probably one of the most versatile players in the entire draft but at the same time I worry that he is that tweener of too small for linebacker but too big and slow for Safety. Is good in coverage but I question his ability to handle the run game. I mean some of the backs are bigger than him and I think a 300 lb. lineman is going to have his way. Throw in with the OL being such a huge necessity and 3 high quality 1st round talent players available I just think it was a mistake to pass on OL.

Ameer Abdullah--Again good player but was there a better player that fits need and value? With Jonathan Stewart still on the roster he is a quality starter when healthy and with how deep this draft is at RB I think you can still get a very quality player later on at the position and fill a need with an instant starter.

Donovan Smith--Favorite pick of yours so far. Fits both need and value. Not really the top end starter but a quality guy that you can depend on to do pretty well.

Senquez Golson--Very good value pick here in my opinion. Short for the position but the guy just makes plays. You definitely went for the home run hitting big play ability players. Thompson, Abdullah, and Golson all showed that ability in college. So can't really fault you for that. Good pick here.

Tyeler Davison--Decent pick. The guy is built like a truck and had high production in college. Good rotational piece but not sure I see any starting potential out of him.

Lynden Trail--This is a guy with high potential with his size/speed/weight combination. Didn't show as well as some would hope for his physical abilities though but possibly with some coaching could turn into a decent player.

Overall C type draft. I thought you should have gone OL earlier and while you got some big play potential players I do worry about some of their ability to handle the play in and play out production that you are wanting. They look more like specialty package type players than the every down type players.

 

[cdumler7]

Grade the Raiders, cdumler....

Haha well it is the Raiders so already have to give them a solid F!

Ok so Raiders draft...

Kevin White--With Williams and Beasley my two favorite players in the draft gone getting White here makes a ton of sense. He fits need and value as you and I have discussed and agree White has the higher ceiling of the two top WR's in this draft. Gives Carr a nice weapon to grow with and a guy day 1 is your top receiver. Good pick.

Jordan Phillips--This is a guy I go back and forth on. His injuries scare the heck out of me and he is a guy that runs either really hot or really cold. He also plays the same position as Dan Williams that you guys got but having 2 quality NT's is not a bad thing as Williams only played about 40% of the defensive snaps last year anyway. So good pick but one that could blow up in your face very quickly.

Ali Marpet--This one I wanted to punch you in the face when you took him. I knew he wouldn't make it to my 3rd round pick but a man can dream. This kid is climbing boards quickly for good reason. Most likely moves into the guard position in the pros but the guy has the athleticism and drive to play anywhere on the OL and I think do well. I think this is one of those small school kids that will become a household name soon.

James Sample--I would say good value in the 4th. Again another injury risk player that only had one healthy season in college and is limited on the number of snaps but showed some good potential. This is a weak safety class but this is one of those this kid could emerge as a quality starter down the road.

Ladarius Gunter--This is probably my least favorite pick which isn't bad considering it is in the 5th round. Very inconsistent player and gets burned quite a bit. Showed well at the Senior Bowl but actual game film shows a guy maybe too slow to be a starting Corner in the league and his best option is at safety. Not a big help in the run game either which is surprising with his aggressive style and size.

Overall I would give this draft a B+. I see 4 guys that could potentially be very good starters. This is a bit of a boom or bust draft with 2 guys having some major injury concerns, another that played against very weak competition, and White who has a bigger bust chance than that of Cooper in my opinion. So again a very aggressive draft but one I think could set the franchise up for a long time if it works out and I like the chances of it doing that.

 

[pantherfanforever11]

Shaq Thompson--Well honestly not sure how I feel about this guy. Probably one of the most versatile players in the entire draft but at the same time I worry that he is that tweener of too small for linebacker but too big and slow for Safety. Is good in coverage but I question his ability to handle the run game. I mean some of the backs are bigger than him and I think a 300 lb. lineman is going to have his way. Throw in with the OL being such a huge necessity and 3 high quality 1st round talent players available I just think it was a mistake to pass on OL.

Ameer Abdullah--Again good player but was there a better player that fits need and value? With Jonathan Stewart still on the roster he is a quality starter when healthy and with how deep this draft is at RB I think you can still get a very quality player later on at the position and fill a need with an instant starter.

Donovan Smith--Favorite pick of yours so far. Fits both need and value. Not really the top end starter but a quality guy that you can depend on to do pretty well.

Senquez Golson--Very good value pick here in my opinion. Short for the position but the guy just makes plays. You definitely went for the home run hitting big play ability players. Thompson, Abdullah, and Golson all showed that ability in college. So can't really fault you for that. Good pick here.

Tyeler Davison--Decent pick. The guy is built like a truck and had high production in college. Good rotational piece but not sure I see any starting potential out of him.

Lynden Trail--This is a guy with high potential with his size/speed/weight combination. Didn't show as well as some would hope for his physical abilities though but possibly with some coaching could turn into a decent player.

Overall C type draft. I thought you should have gone OL earlier and while you got some big play potential players I do worry about some of their ability to handle the play in and play out production that you are wanting. They look more like specialty package type players than the every down type players.

Thompson is a guy that reminds me alot of Thomas Davis. and who better than him to show him how to develop into a solid OLB. he will need a few years to develop just like Davis did but he can have an impact this year in passing coverage and with our Dline he should play WLB pretty well.

Abdullah- I dunno what to say here i didnt and wouldnt have picked him.

Smith i really like even if he just a power RT i think he could challenge right now for a starting spot and more than likely win. If not out right take the LT and let me sleep better than having Oher over there.

Golson- hey you know what our Secondary needs some spice to it. to often they are left running behind. getting a kid in there who will go and get the ball could help change the mentality of the secondary.

Davison- With Star and Short dont really need a starter. looking for a solid rotational like player who can help against the run and deveolop in the last year Cole and Edwards are here

Trail- Could use a guy to challenge Addison, Ealy, and Horton. situational pass rusher for awhile.


OL was hard to go for. after deciding not to go for it in the First. but there are some other good developmental guys in this draft.

 

[#1BostonFan]

I think we should finish the draft before grades en sech.

 

[Ritzarmy]

Nos are you going to ever pick for ravens?