No doubt in my mind 49ers would have won super bowl

[Kinzu]

It doesn't have to the ground though to be incomplete because it was a sideline catch. If that catch was in the middle of the field it's easily a catch. If he had to reestablish possession out of bounds then it's not a catch. I guess there was not enough evidence in the replay to over turn the call either way though. You know the ball moved, but because he rolled over you don't know how much.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

The Giants had a lot of balls bounce their way all post season, but by no means do I think they got lucky. When plays had to be made, they made them. Cruz fumbles, but there are 12 men on the field for the defense. That's not luck, that is a mental lapse by the defense. Kyle Williams lets a ball bounce off his leg, not luck, that's another mental mistake.

I think we would have beaten the Patriots as well, and it was tough to watch the game knowing that, but I'm not mad about it. I was angry with Williams, but don't blame him or hate him. A lot of people still hate the guy. The game is not perfect and people aren't perfect. How was Roger Craig forgiven so easily for his fumble?

 

[MW49ers5]

Incredible catch - under the circumstances an amazing catch!

 

[AU_Fever]

Look man, we lost because of KW. You can spin it all you want...but the NFC Championship game should never have gone to OVERTIME! The first fumble by KW sealed our fate. Had he field the punt like he should have done with a fair catch call, we would have had great field position. Worse case scenario at that time is we come out with a fg in that drive. Game would never have gone to overtime...!

Bingo, not trying to put a different spin on the game. Had Kyle Williams fielded the punt of stayed away from it, Niners would have had the ball at the 35 or 40 yard line. What makes you think that Alex Smith would have moved the offense? Receivers were not getting any separation. The first muff resulted into a Giant touchdown and a 17-14 lead. On the ensuing kickoff, Kyle Williams had a great return all the way to the 45 yard line. Niners were able to move the ball and Akers kicked the tying FG. Niners had ample opporunities when the game was tied to try and make plays and possibly kick the winning FG. They failed miserably. I am not absolving Kyle Williams from any blame, but what about converting more 3rd downs? How about the receivers showing up for the biggest game of their lives? I too was very upset when the Niners lost. Bottom line was the Niners lost and the Giants are Super Bowl champions. But Niner fans have alot to be excited about this upcoming season.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Bingo, not trying to put a different spin on the game. Had Kyle Williams fielded the punt of stayed away from it, Niners would have had the ball at the 35 or 40 yard line. What makes you think that Alex Smith would have moved the offense? Receivers were not getting any separation. The first muff resulted into a Giant touchdown and a 17-14 lead. On the ensuing kickoff, Kyle Williams had a great return all the way to the 45 yard line. Niners were able to move the ball and Akers kicked the tying FG. Niners had ample opporunities when the game was tied to try and make plays and possibly kick the winning FG. They failed miserably. I am not absolving Kyle Williams from any blame, but what about converting more 3rd downs? How about the receivers showing up for the biggest game of their lives? I too was very upset when the Niners lost. Bottom line was the Niners lost and the Giants are Super Bowl champions. But Niner fans have alot to be excited about this upcoming season.

One thing I want to clarify: people say we only converted 1 of 13 third downs. I think that's an incorrect number that doesn't tell the whole picture. We were 0 for 12 as far as I'm concerned, or maybe 0 for 13. The final third down of the game was 3rd and goal, not 3rd and 7 (or whatever it was; don't have time to look now). As such, we failed to convert.

I don't think the Giants take the lead without the first muff, so that was brutal. That said, we had more than enough opportunities to put it away.

 

[iHATEdodgers]

The Giants had a lot of balls bounce their way all post season, but by no means do I think they got lucky. When plays had to be made, they made them. Cruz fumbles, but there are 12 men on the field for the defense. That's not luck, that is a mental lapse by the defense. Kyle Williams lets a ball bounce off his leg, not luck, that's another mental mistake.

I think we would have beaten the Patriots as well, and it was tough to watch the game knowing that, but I'm not mad about it. I was angry with Williams, but don't blame him or hate him. A lot of people still hate the guy. The game is not perfect and people aren't perfect. How was Roger Craig forgiven so easily for his fumble?

Who the said he was forgiven?

But for arguments' sake, let's say Roger is forgiven (I'm not saying he is - goddamnit hold onto the ball and we threepeat you sonuva...), ok so yeah saying he was forgiven... he had a stellar career up to that point and had won championships. Williams, up to this point, has only screwed us out of a chance to win another one... and that about sums up his career.

Anyway I blame both of them for losing those games, but seriously I don't hate them. It's a fookin game how can you hate someone you don't even know who just made a mistake?

 

[CalamityX11]

Kyle Williams mistakes were magnified and it lead to 10 points for the Giants. The Giants' wide receivers did show up for the SB. Nicks had 10 catches, Cruz caught an TD, and Manningham made a spectacular catch on the winning drive. The Niners' receivers (except for Davis) did not show up for the NFC championship game. Niners would have had a good chance to win the Super Bowl, but do you think they would win it if the receivers caught only one pass again? I know the defense would have played well, but can you count on the offense?

Both opportunities made by KW flops.... Both opportunities came in after the niners successfully stuffed/stoned/stopped the Giants Offense(as they did nearly the whole game/ot.

Niners have a WR? lol

It's not a successful formula for a WR for one catch... but if its the TEs and RBs who are making up ground and continue to deliver positive results, behind championship caliber defense, it's possible believe it or not cause we ALMOST saw that in the NFC title game.

Offense played well enough all season(highs n lows) to reach the NFC title game. The same offense, when pressed, came back twice to upset the Saints after the defense did all they could to stop them. Offense played well in the NFC game minus some bad mistakes or missed opportunities(also abandoning the run oddly)....

Against that pats defense, i would've had full confidence in our offense.

 

[MHSL82]

One thing I want to clarify: people say we only converted 1 of 13 third downs. I think that's an incorrect number that doesn't tell the whole picture. We were 0 for 12 as far as I'm concerned, or maybe 0 for 13. The final third down of the game was 3rd and goal, not 3rd and 7 (or whatever it was; don't have time to look now). As such, we failed to convert.

I don't think the Giants take the lead without the first muff, so that was brutal. That said, we had more than enough opportunities to put it away.

Actually, I thought the one conversion was the last play of regulation to Walker, which absent a TD means nothing. So it really was 0-12 in meaningful third downs. 15 firsts compared to 20 firsts by the Giants overall with two more possessions (though I think the muffs were so close they didn't get any first downs).

 

[CalamityX11]

The Giants had a lot of balls bounce their way all post season, but by no means do I think they got lucky. When plays had to be made, they made them. Cruz fumbles, but there are 12 men on the field for the defense. That's not luck, that is a mental lapse by the defense. Kyle Williams lets a ball bounce off his leg, not luck, that's another mental mistake.
I think we would have beaten the Patriots as well, and it was tough to watch the game knowing that, but I'm not mad about it. I was angry with Williams, but don't blame him or hate him. A lot of people still hate the guy. The game is not perfect and people aren't perfect. How was Roger Craig forgiven so easily for his fumble?

lol i would actually stretched that to luck, with luck being KW being a dumbass.... it hits your leg, fucking jump on it. Don't walk away. I mean it's not like a muff catch, KW far from the ball's initial hit on the ground, runs up to it, dances away after contact and walks away acting like it didn't touch him. Lucky for them since we had a dumbass for a returner(like the potential at WR still)

 

[CalamityX11]

More interesting than the non-fumble call was not resetting the clock on the 12-men on the field call on the second to last play...I have to think the competition committee will review that in the off-season. I read, where it would have made perfect sense to just put 15+ guys on the field for the final play...

Yeah, me and my brother talking about that and i never really thought of it too. That's kinda loophole bush league IMO(not sayin the giants intended it, i'll give them that respect)

 

[MHSL82]

Yeah, me and my brother talking about that and i never really thought of it too. That's kinda loophole bush league IMO(not sayin the giants intended it, i'll give them that respect)

It was like us challenging a scoring play. Harbaugh knew he couldn't do it but it gave him a TO essentially and put pressure on the refs to look at it anyway. He wasn't charged a time out but got the benefit. (I forgot the details if someone could remind me, because I forgot why we wanted time) Or am I totally off? So much has happened since then.

 

[CalamityX11]

It was like us challenging a scoring play. Harbaugh knew he couldn't do it but it gave him a TO essentially and put pressure on the refs to look at it anyway. He wasn't charged a time out but got the benefit. (I forgot the details if someone could remind me, because I forgot why we wanted time) Or am I totally off? So much has happened since then.

Well, challenging a scoring play is a foul and a loss of a TO... but honestly can't remember if an actual TO break was given too rather they charged them a TO yet continue play in the extra pt attempt thus not using a TO.

 

[MW49ers5]

Yeah, me and my brother talking about that and i never really thought of it too. That's kinda loophole bush league IMO(not sayin the giants intended it, i'll give them that respect)

Yeah, I agree as well that there was no intent and the foul is not dead ball because it can be declined. Therefore, if Hernandez makes the catch then NE simply declines the penalty. But, with the extra defenders on the field it reduces the chances of the play being successful.

Thus the idea of putting 15 or 115 players on the field for the Hail Mary makes sense because it would have significantly diminished the chance that NE would be successful with the HM. However, there would be no time left on the clock to do anything with the 5 yards.

Essentially the Giants were able to trade five yards for 8 seconds...not by intent of the team but by design of the rules.

 

[MHSL82]

Yeah, I agree as well that there was no intent and the foul is not dead ball because it can be declined. Therefore, if Hernandez makes the catch then NE simply declines the penalty. But, with the extra defenders on the field it reduces the chances of the play being successful.

Thus the idea of putting 15 or 115 players on the field for the Hail Mary makes sense because it would have significantly diminished the chance that NE would be successful with the HM. However, there would be no time left on the clock to do anything with the 5 yards.

Essentially the Giants were able to trade five yards for 8 seconds...not by intent of the team but by design of the rules.

If this were Belicheck and not Coughlin, I wouldn't be sure it was accidental. Heck, even a cerebral Harbaugh wouldn't be trustworthy. (How ironic would it have been if we lost to the Colts on a hail mary? I'm sure Brady's heave brought back bad memories to Harbaugh.)

Heck, I would have put 15 out there on the second to last play. (I'd say 20, but it has to be relatively undetectable until the snap is off) Because it would help me this time but bring upon change for next year so it couldn't hurt me later. Could you get an unsportsmanlike conduct when it was obvious you violated the rules on purpose?

How is that not a dead ball foul when neutral zone infractions are? It occurs before the snap unlike an offsides freebie where it basically happens simultaneously.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Actually, I thought the one conversion was the last play of regulation to Walker, which absent a TD means nothing. So it really was 0-12 in meaningful third downs. 15 firsts compared to 20 firsts by the Giants overall with two more possessions (though I think the muffs were so close they didn't get any first downs).

Right, that was the point I was trying to make - perhaps not clearly. It was like 3rd and 7 from the...well, I can't remember what. But we needed a TD, which meant it was really third and goal. The 30-odd yards we racked up on that play were meaningless.

 

[MW49ers5]

The Giants had a lot of balls bounce their way all post season, but by no means do I think they got lucky. When plays had to be made, they made them. Cruz fumbles, but there are 12 men on the field for the defense. That's not luck, that is a mental lapse by the defense. Kyle Williams lets a ball bounce off his leg, not luck, that's another mental mistake.

I think we would have beaten the Patriots as well, and it was tough to watch the game knowing that, but I'm not mad about it. I was angry with Williams, but don't blame him or hate him. A lot of people still hate the guy. The game is not perfect and people aren't perfect. How was Roger Craig forgiven so easily for his fumble?

Very well said, Tall!

 

[MHSL82]

Right, that was the point I was trying to make - perhaps not clearly. It was like 3rd and 7 from the...well, I can't remember what. But we needed a TD, which meant it was really third and goal. The 30-odd yards we racked up on that play were meaningless.

Ok, gotcha. I didn't get that until after the ten-minute editting time limit. It should have jumped out at me from the beginning because of the only way to convert a 3rd and goal would be to score a TD and we were never at the 7 yard line for a TD. Forgive me for trying to forget the game!

 

[deep9er]

shouldn't defenses put more effort to stop HM pass from even being thrown? why don't teams rush four instead of three, the fourth guy can be a LB or even Safety? or two DE's and two LB's? cause if you stop the pass from being thrown, there's no chance.

whereas once the ball is in the air and gets to the end zone, it has a chance. only two or three defenders can attach the HM anyway? the odds of completion are small, but its still there.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

And should have if not for a few mistakes

I think they would have had a decent shot at winning but I can't say "I have no doubt".

 

[AdelaideCrows83]

Yeah, I agree as well that there was no intent and the foul is not dead ball because it can be declined. Therefore, if Hernandez makes the catch then NE simply declines the penalty. But, with the extra defenders on the field it reduces the chances of the play being successful.

Thus the idea of putting 15 or 115 players on the field for the Hail Mary makes sense because it would have significantly diminished the chance that NE would be successful with the HM. However, there would be no time left on the clock to do anything with the 5 yards.

Essentially the Giants were able to trade five yards for 8 seconds...not by intent of the team but by design of the rules.

In response to the bold text, I was under the impression that if a penalty is committed on the final play (and the penalty is accepted) then the offense gets another play, despite having zero time left on the clock.

Having said that, I agree that it seems like a good tactic on the 2nd or 3rd to last play. The rule should be adjusted so the time lost is put back on the clock (unless the penalty is declined, of course).