No deadline set for Coyotes new franchise

[forty_three]

Because that will surely fix everything.

"We love hockey in Phoenix, but we don't want to, you know, make an effort to get to it. If it's close to a bar and a Chipotle, that's better."

 

[dash]

Because that will surely fix everything.

"We love hockey in Phoenix, but we don't want to, you know, make an effort to get to it. If it's close to a bar and a Chipotle, that's better."

It won't fix everything, but it definitely is a move in the right direction. However, it could be a case of too little too late.

 

[Cobiemonster]

It won't fix everything, but it definitely is a move in the right direction. However, it could be a case of too little too late.

Exactly

Where the hell was he years ago - it's not like they couldn't have done something then

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Because that will surely fix everything.

"We love hockey in Phoenix, but we don't want to, you know, make an effort to get to it. If it's close to a bar and a Chipotle, that's better."

I dont really blame people in the Phoenix area for not wanting to drive out to some podunk town to watch hockey 41 nights a year. I just try and place the same type of situation in my area and I dont know who from Vancouver would drive out to Abbotsford to watch any form of hockey.

Coyotes had pretty good attendance when they played downtown in an arena that had horrible sitelines for hockey.

but like dash said .. probably too little too late

regardless ... 43 ... we might see a cool bmx video out soon which was shot in an abandoned Glendale arena

 

[Comeds]

If I am going to a game or two a year I don't mind an hour or more drive but if I planned to got to a bunch of games the drive would be too much.

I have fun whenever I go to a Capitals game but with the effort needed to get there I will only ever go to 1-3 games a year.

 

[forty_three]

I dont really blame people in the Phoenix area for not wanting to drive out to some podunk town to watch hockey 41 nights a year. I just try and place the same type of situation in my area and I dont know who from Vancouver would drive out to Abbotsford to watch any form of hockey.

Coyotes had pretty good attendance when they played downtown in an arena that had horrible sitelines for hockey.

but like dash said .. probably too little too late

regardless ... 43 ... we might see a cool bmx video out soon which was shot in an abandoned Glendale arena

I don't buy the "waaaaaah, don't want to drive so far" argument. It's not like the people of Phoenix are being asked to drive to Pueblo New Mexico. The arena is in a suburb of Phoenix. Same with Miami. If it's "too hard" to go half an hour, then you simply don't give enough fucks about hockey. The locals go for football, the stadium is across the parking lot from the Gila Monster Jobing place.

I used drive 45 minutes through back roads to go see AHL hockey in Hershey. Whether I chose to go see the Flyers or Caps, I was in for 2 hours travel time. And I still did it 15 times a year. These people have to go half an hour and it's too much.

No pity from me. None.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I don't buy the "waaaaaah, don't want to drive so far" argument. It's not like the people of Phoenix are being asked to drive to Pueblo New Mexico. The arena is in a suburb of Phoenix. Same with Miami. If it's "too hard" to go half an hour, then you simply don't give enough fucks about hockey. The locals go for football, the stadium is across the parking lot from the Gila Monster Jobing place.

I used drive 45 minutes through back roads to go see AHL hockey in Hershey. Whether I chose to go see the Flyers or Caps, I was in for 2 hours travel time. And I still did it 15 times a year. These people have to go half an hour and it's too much.

No pity from me. None.

8-10 times a year on mostly sunday afternoons ... no comparison

 

[jstewismybastardson]

the people who get no pity from me are the dumbasses who decided to move the team out there as a pure real estate play in hopes of building up some super community that never materialized ... and to Bettman who never thought location location location mattered

 

[BGDave]

I don't buy the "waaaaaah, don't want to drive so far" argument. It's not like the people of Phoenix are being asked to drive to Pueblo New Mexico. The arena is in a suburb of Phoenix. Same with Miami. If it's "too hard" to go half an hour, then you simply don't give enough fucks about hockey. The locals go for football, the stadium is across the parking lot from the Gila Monster Jobing place.

Exactly and you beat me to it.

If you look at Phoenix, like most cities there is a "beltway" around it. The arena is basically at 9 oclock and on the perimeter/beltway. Downtown is at 6 oclock.

Huge retirement community (Sun City) is at 10 oclock and is outside the beltway. I am sure there are no retired Calgarians there....

Anyway, the bigger problem is that most of the money is in Scottsdale, which is anywhere from 130 - 4 oclock and again, on the perimeter.

In other words, the Arena is West and the money is East. They should have built the arena on the East side. But too late for that....

 

[Comeds]

I don't buy the "waaaaaah, don't want to drive so far" argument. It's not like the people of Phoenix are being asked to drive to Pueblo New Mexico. The arena is in a suburb of Phoenix. Same with Miami. If it's "too hard" to go half an hour, then you simply don't give enough fucks about hockey. The locals go for football, the stadium is across the parking lot from the Gila Monster Jobing place.

I used drive 45 minutes through back roads to go see AHL hockey in Hershey. Whether I chose to go see the Flyers or Caps, I was in for 2 hours travel time. And I still did it 15 times a year. These people have to go half an hour and it's too much.

No pity from me. None.

It depends on what its worth to you. Three hours of fun bookended by at least a frustrating hour+ before and after the game is not worth it for me to do very often. I am sure to many people that means I am not a very good fan. Oh well.

There was a poster here from that area who detailed the distance to the arena traveling on roads that in many places could not handle the traffic of even sparsely attended games. It sounded like a long nightmare. Even in good hockey markets (which I dont think this is) that would hurt attendance.

 

[Cobiemonster]

For example, in Sunrise, we can all talk about how the arena is not built in the right place and blah blah blah

But at the end of the day, the team hasn't won jack shit in over a decade - why the hell would people want to watch a team that loses year after year? Unless you are Edmonton and Toronto(which in this case, you might have gotten your skulls beat in) why would you waste your days and nights watching a team lose every night?

Panthers finally have what should be a good thing - the ownership is fantastic, a smart GM, a very good coach and a bunch of really good young players - they start winning and people will come, might be slower but it'll come - you have to build a good team in order for people to come - when the Coyotes had three good years in a row, the fans started to come but when they fell off again the last few years, it went back to square one

You have to win in non-traditional markets in order for people to come - it's that simple - don't sell a shitty product to people and expect them to waste their time by coming to watch your crappy product

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Anyway, the bigger problem is that most of the money is in Scottsdale, which is anywhere from 130 - 4 oclock and again, on the perimeter.

In other words, the Arena is West and the money is East. They should have built the arena on the East side. But too late for that....

So its a Tuesday night and some dude from Scottsdale who works in downtown phoenix has to what? commute home after work to maybe pick up his kids so they can drive west all the way back and past where he works to go to the game ...

do they get there in time for puck drop?

and what time are they making it home ... 11:30? midnight?

its always been one of the biggest NHL problems .. not just putting teams in markets that dont really care ... but compounding the problem by letting the owners of these teams move them to play in arenas that are virtually off the grid

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I don't buy the "waaaaaah, don't want to drive so far" argument. It's not like the people of Phoenix are being asked to drive to Pueblo New Mexico. The arena is in a suburb of Phoenix. Same with Miami. If it's "too hard" to go half an hour, then you simply don't give enough fucks about hockey. The locals go for football, the stadium is across the parking lot from the Gila Monster Jobing place.

I used drive 45 minutes through back roads to go see AHL hockey in Hershey. Whether I chose to go see the Flyers or Caps, I was in for 2 hours travel time. And I still did it 15 times a year. These people have to go half an hour and it's too much.

No pity from me. None.

As a kid I lived in the suburbs and would train/drive to the ACC. Even via car, in one of the most congested regions in the Americas, during rush hour it would take me 1-1.5 hours and it didn't bother me.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

For example, in Sunrise, we can all talk about how the arena is not built in the right place and blah blah blah

But at the end of the day, the team hasn't won jack shit in over a decade - why the hell would people want to watch a team that loses year after year? Unless you are Edmonton and Toronto(which in this case, you might have gotten your skulls beat in) why would you waste your days and nights watching a team lose every night?

Panthers finally have what should be a good thing - the ownership is fantastic, a smart GM, a very good coach and a bunch of really good young players - they start winning and people will come, might be slower but it'll come - you have to build a good team in order for people to come - when the Coyotes had three good years in a row, the fans started to come but when they fell off again the last few years, it went back to square one

You have to win in non-traditional markets in order for people to come - it's that simple - don't sell a shitty product to people and expect them to waste their time by coming to watch your crappy product

I heard last week that the Panthers were haemorrhaging money like never before and the owner was exploring relocation? This might be the Panthers' last chance in Southern Florida.

 

[Cobiemonster]

I heard last week that the Panthers were haemorrhaging money like never before and the owner was exploring relocation? This might be the Panthers' last chance in Southern Florida.

I think that's false, but that's just some regular person like me, not someone who actually has the inside scoop in the organization

Vinnie Viola seems to be a good man with good values and I don't think he would be exploring relocation at this point

I know people will laugh at this but if ownership really wanted to try and relocate, they would have done it already

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

So its a Tuesday night and some dude from Scottsdale who works in downtown phoenix has to what? commute home after work to maybe pick up his kids so they can drive west all the way back and past where he works to go to the game ...

do they get there in time for puck drop?

and what time are they making it home ... 11:30? midnight?

its always been one of the biggest NHL problems .. not just putting teams in markets that dont really care ... but compounding the problem by letting the owners of these teams move them to play in arenas that are virtually off the grid

I understood it in some cases back in the day because many American downtowns resembled modern-day Pyongyang at the time. But teams like the Coyotes and Panthers that built stadiums in the middle of nowhere despite having good to great downtowns made little sense.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I think that's false, but that's just some regular person like me, not someone who actually has the inside scoop in the organization

Vinnie Viola seems to be a good man with good values and I don't think he would be exploring relocation at this point

I know people will laugh at this but if ownership really wanted to try and relocate, they would have done it already

Let's put it this way - Florida competed for a playoff spot until the last month of the season while Arizona were purposely tanking after October, and somehow Arizona beat Florida in average attendance by over 2,000 fans per game!

The guy has to at least be thinking about it right now, and I don't think anybody would blame him if he were because there isn't a chance in hell that team was anything resembling profitable last year. Of course, anybody who pays Dave Bolland $5.5 million/yr probably deserves to lose money.

 

[BGDave]

It depends on what its worth to you. Three hours of fun bookended by at least a frustrating hour+ before and after the game is not worth it for me to do very often. I am sure to many people that means I am not a very good fan. Oh well.

There was a poster here from that area who detailed the distance to the arena traveling on roads that in many places could not handle the traffic of even sparsely attended games. It sounded like a long nightmare. Even in good hockey markets (which I dont think this is) that would hurt attendance.

So its a Tuesday night and some dude from Scottsdale who works in downtown phoenix has to what? commute home after work to maybe pick up his kids so they can drive west all the way back and past where he works to go to the game ...

do they get there in time for puck drop?

and what time are they making it home ... 11:30? midnight?

its always been one of the biggest NHL problems .. not just putting teams in markets that dont really care ... but compounding the problem by letting the owners of these teams move them to play in arenas that are virtually off the grid

Glendal is nowhere near "off the grid" relative to Phoenix.

Kanata on the other hand...

The problem is that there just arent enough hockey fans in AZ. Period. The drive time is not a valid reason in this case. It is an excuse that is covering up the real truth.

FWIW, I spent a week there in April. I asked 10 people about the Coyotes and hockey. Only one said they have been to a game, and he was a BOS transplant.

 

[BGDave]

Of course, anybody who pays Dave Bolland $5.5 million/yr probably deserves to lose money.

No need to qualify this statement with a "probably". This is as universal a truth as gravity on Earth.

 

[Cobiemonster]

Let's put it this way - Florida competed for a playoff spot until the last month of the season while Arizona were purposely tanking after October, and somehow Arizona beat Florida in average attendance by over 2,000 fans per game!

The guy has to at least be thinking about it right now, and I don't think anybody would blame him if he were because there isn't a chance in hell that team was anything resembling profitable last year. Of course, anybody who pays Dave Bolland $5.5 million/yr probably deserves to lose money.

You have to consider that in Arizona, places like Anaheim, LA and even San Jose have fans that are closer there than in Florida - the closest to Florida is Tampa - Florida does get Montreal, Toronto, Chicago and Ranger fans there when those teams play but if the Panthers had closer teams, they would probably have more attendance

Also, there is actually more to do in South Florida than in Glendale so that probably takes away from part of the attendance too

The same Panthers who signed guys like Willie Mitchell, Derek MacKenzie and Jussi Jokinen along with building a really good young team and we're harping on one signing that isn't so good? At least they're not like a bunch of teams that have multiple players who are overpaid - every damn person knew it probably wasn't a good deal but they did it to show people that they want to win and how you can blame them for that is just crazy