National anthem protests

[clemtheslowson]

Some PD's actually do their jobs. NYC has 8.4 million people and 30,000-36,000 cops depends on the year. Cops are responsible for about 8 deaths a year here and most of those are armed assailants. Eric Garner was something you rarely see here (It happened in 2014) and the only other egregious death was an accident where a rookie had his gun out in a dark hallway, accidentally fired, it bounced off a wall and hit someone killing him. Not too much was made about it because it was an accident, the cop was arrested, charged and convicted. No one mentions it but the Sgt in charge of the Garner scene finally got fired in January.

But NYC also doesn't have all that much violence per person. 328 homicides last year as compared to 491 in Chicago which has 2.4 million people of instance. Baltimore with 600,000 people has more homicides than NYC.

My old man did 20 years on the NYPD and 10 as a Virginia state trooper. He was in NYC when there were 1500 to 2000 homicides a year and never shot anyone. Got injured a bunch of times apprehending people but never got shot himself either. Those were not fun days in this city.

We have 231 sworn personnel currently. That includes administration and supervisors.

Granted we are a small city, but we have not killed anyone in recent memory and I have been here for 10 years.

Killing each other? That's a different story.

Killing themselves? I have no compassion for the OD victims. They made a bad choice.


Got to go. Time to cook dinner for the wife.

 

[Cyder]

I have no doubt that there are still "good" cops out there. Where my doubts lye though are when people say there are departments that don't protect their own & there aren't cover ups.

The vast majority are good cops and in many cases the cop in question was working alone so there wasn't another cop to see them. For instance, Darren Wilson told the truth about Ferguson and the forensics and at least 6 witnesses (All people of color) backed his story. There were more but they were afraid to testify.

I can't stand dirty cops and they kill people from all races. it just isn't covered as much because the media doesn't want anyone to know that. The racism angle gets people to the TV's.

The cops shot a little under 1000 people last year. 50% were white, 26% black. Is that a lot for a country of well over 300 million? I really don't know. Pretty soon just about everywhere will be on video (Especially in cities) and with everyone carrying phones that can record the shitbags will be weeded out and punished.

Body cams on all cops. Dash cams in all cop cars. Cameras in the back of all vehicles so we don't get the bullshit that happened in Baltimore. I support the police but my father told me when I was very young "Just because he wears my uniform doesn't mean he's like me. If you need help get a cop. If you're in trouble with a cop, keep your mouth shut, keep your hands where he can see them, don't move suddenly and call me".

The moment he had his 20 years in in NYC he quit and moved to Virginia. He'd had enough of the violence up here. Now it's nothing like it was. I hope cities like Chicago, Baltimore, New Orleans etc can stop the cycles of violence. So many kids dying, it's heartbreaking. I used to love to go to Baltimore and watch ball games. Now I won't step foot there.

 

[trojanfan12]

I don't feel disrespected if they don't stand during the national anthem- and I'm both Black AND American.

I'm pretty sure most of what comes out of Trump's mouth during his rallies and every interview he's given is disrespectful to American's & women alike, yet he's allowed to run for President. If his actions aren't contrary to what being American means I don't know what is.

I don't feel disrespected either. I'm not black, have never served (although I have family and friends who have/do), but I am an American. However, I do feel that it is disrespectful to those who have served. My issue is that those who are protesting speak about what the flag/anthem "means to them" without considering what it means to millions of others.

Imo, it's fairly hypocritical to protest by refusing to stand for the flag/anthem because of what those individuals say it means to them despite it having a different meaning for millions, while at the same time citing what it means to millions of others as the reason people in the south can't/shouldn't fly the confederate flag.

Additionally, what does a "protest" actually do anyway? Raise awareness? I'm pretty sure everyone with at least 2 brain cells to rub together knows that racism exists and that there are bad cops just like there are bad people in every occupation/walk of life. Instead of protesting, how about these guys use their money and fame to follow Boogie Cousins lead and actually doing something about it?

Boogie Cousins as the voice of reason in race relations...what has happened to the country? lol

 

[LAD]

I don't feel disrespected either. I'm not black, have never served (although I have family and friends who have/do), but I am an American. However, I do feel that it is disrespectful to those who have served. My issue is that those who are protesting speak about what the flag/anthem "means to them" without considering what it means to millions of others.

Imo, it's fairly hypocritical to protest by refusing to stand for the flag/anthem because of what those individuals say it means to them despite it having a different meaning for millions, while at the same time citing what it means to millions of others as the reason people in the south can't/shouldn't fly the confederate flag.

Additionally, what does a "protest" actually do anyway? Raise awareness? I'm pretty sure everyone with at least 2 brain cells to rub together knows that racism exists and that there are bad cops just like there are bad people in every occupation/walk of life. Instead of protesting, how about these guys use their money and fame to follow Boogie Cousins lead and actually doing something about it?

Boogie Cousins as the voice of reason in race relations...what has happened to the country? lol

I totally agree. Perception varies from person to person based on a lot of different factors.

But, I think people take things personally too often. Is it possible for them to protest against the national anthem without taking a personal stab at those that have served our country?

 

[trojanfan12]

I totally agree. Perception varies from person to person based on a lot of different factors.

But, I think people take things personally too often. Is it possible for them to protest against the national anthem without taking a personal stab at those that have served our country?

I don't know. Probably. If, for example, there was a statement as to why they are doing it before they did it. That may have helped. Kaepernick, in particular, didn't help himself by sitting during the anthem, claiming it was about the police and then directly insulting all police officers by wearing socks that portrayed police officers as pigs (as the son of a retired police officer, I did find that offensive).

Or, perhaps finding another way to protest. Or even better, don't protest, actually do something about it instead. Nothing is ever going to change until people quit letting the media drive the conversation and actually sit down and start having real discussions about it.

 

[LAD]

I don't know. Probably. If, for example, there was a statement as to why they are doing it before they did it. That may have helped. Kaepernick, in particular, didn't help himself by sitting during the anthem, claiming it was about the police and then directly insulting all police officers by wearing socks that portrayed police officers as pigs (as the son of a retired police officer, I did find that offensive).

Or, perhaps finding another way to protest. Or even better, don't protest, actually do something about it instead. Nothing is ever going to change until people quit letting the media drive the conversation and actually sit down and start having real discussions about it.

All very good points.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Hello Mecca. How have you been?

I'm good, Clem.

How's the health?

I miss Mick!!!

 

[trojanfan12]

All very good points.

Thanks. I agree with a lot of what you say. While I can never be in your shoes and can never fully understand what it means to be denied access, a job (although I was once denied a promotion because I'm a man), be profiled, etc. because of my race. I can empathize.

The biggest problem, imo, is that the media portrays everything as black vs. white, rich vs. poor, etc. and sensationalizes everything.

I'd love to see some meaningful discussions take place, but the media has it so that most on both sides of the issue are on the defensive. That's why I'm so impressed with what Boogie is doing. There wasn't a whole lot of media coverage. There wasn't a big announcement about it. Just a guy with some means going back to his hometown and trying to make things better.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I will tell you what really bothers me is how the media promotes racial tension in these incidents. Here is what I mean.

The headline reads:

Black Man Killed by Police"

Instead of:

Man Killed by Police"

Bottom line, race may or may not have had anything to do with the shooting. The only person who knows for sure is the cop who pulled the trigger. Yet, because the media implies that the man was shot because of his skin color, people of color become increasingly more distrustful of police and future interactions are absolutely shaped by those perceptions. In other words, I believe that the more the media wants to make this about race, the more likely these incidents are to continue occurring. The citizens don't cooperate with police, police escalate and what should have been a nothing situation turns into tragedy.

If a cop wrongfully kills somebody, they should go to jail regardless of the victim's skin color. If it can be proven that the cop shot the victim because of skin color, then they are guilty of a hate crime and should get life or worse. But, assuming that the cops perpetrating the shootings are racist and focusing on that part of the problem is not doing anybody any favors. It is only making an already effed up situation even worse.

The Psychology of some of these situations would be fascinating, if it wasn't so sad.

I feel like I'm in a unique situation to see things from both sides and the different points of view are astonishing.

Example: I saw a Facebook post from one of my friends relatives that stated, all restaurants in the area should refuse to serve cops.

The rub?

His Aunt, Grandfather and 2 Cousins are Deputy Sheriff's.

When pulled on the carpet he stated " Well, I didn't mean y'all".

One of my husband's friends, who works for a PD, made a post that suggested all BLM protesters should be shot on sight because blacks were born predisposed to violence and it will just lead to more rioting.

When my husband reminded him that his wife and 2 Children are black. He stated, " Yeah...But, I didn't mean them."

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I don't feel disrespected either. I'm not black, have never served (although I have family and friends who have/do), but I am an American. However, I do feel that it is disrespectful to those who have served. My issue is that those who are protesting speak about what the flag/anthem "means to them" without considering what it means to millions of others.

Imo, it's fairly hypocritical to protest by refusing to stand for the flag/anthem because of what those individuals say it means to them despite it having a different meaning for millions, while at the same time citing what it means to millions of others as the reason people in the south can't/shouldn't fly the confederate flag.

Additionally, what does a "protest" actually do anyway? Raise awareness? I'm pretty sure everyone with at least 2 brain cells to rub together knows that racism exists and that there are bad cops just like there are bad people in every occupation/walk of life. Instead of protesting, how about these guys use their money and fame to follow Boogie Cousins lead and actually doing something about it?

Boogie Cousins as the voice of reason in race relations...what has happened to the country? lol

Did you see Sullingers post?

#CommonSenseNotThatCommon

Jared Sullinger: Please be mindful of your decisions. At night don’t make your self look like danger. Cops have to do their job and value they life as well. I’m not justifying what the cop did. But at night with BB Gun. That’s not a smart choice…. from a far BB guns look real. I pray that we make the right decisions…. I pray we remove these fetal callings and smart up and understand. There’s a cause and effect. For every action there’s gonna be a reaction… let’s make our actions positive not negative.
5 days ago – via Twitter

 

[LAD]

Thanks. I agree with a lot of what you say. While I can never be in your shoes and can never fully understand what it means to be denied access, a job (although I was once denied a promotion because I'm a man), be profiled, etc. because of my race. I can empathize.

The biggest problem, imo, is that the media portrays everything as black vs. white, rich vs. poor, etc. and sensationalizes everything.

I'd love to see some meaningful discussions take place, but the media has it so that most on both sides of the issue are on the defensive. That's why I'm so impressed with what Boogie is doing. There wasn't a whole lot of media coverage. There wasn't a big announcement about it. Just a guy with some means going back to his hometown and trying to make things better.

In all honesty, I didn't realize how much of a violation profiling is until I experienced for myself. And yes a lot of the misconception of most situations is based on how the media portrays the situations and the individuals involved. I also think that many people use the "race" card to perpetuate most situations which is wrong- no matter who is doing it.

I know I could have conversations/debates on this for days- because it's always interesting to hear things from a different perspective. Being an executive assistant has literally put me in a position in corp. America that forces me to deal with every type of person. Ironically I've learned so much about myself and how my views in general were so one-sided as a young adult.

 

[LAD]

The Psychology of some of these situations would be fascinating, if it wasn't so sad.

I feel like I'm in a unique situation to see things from both sides and the different points of view are astonishing.

Example: I saw a Facebook post from one of my friends relatives that stated, all restaurants in the area should refuse to serve cops.

The rub?

His Aunt, Grandfather and 2 Cousins are Deputy Sheriff's.

When pulled on the carpet he stated " Well, I didn't mean y'all".

One of my husband's friends, who works for a PD, made a post that suggested all BLM protesters should be shot on sight because blacks were born predisposed to violence and it will just lead to more rioting.

When my husband reminded him that his wife and 2 Children are black. He stated, " Yeah...But, I didn't mean them."

I think a lot of times youngsters that lack real life experience just want to "be on board" with something- not realizing the consequences of lacking in self awareness or the effects words can have. Or even how far of a reach social media has. That is a lesson I am still trying to teach my soon-to-be 20 year old.

 

[trojanfan12]

Did you see Sullingers post?

#CommonSenseNotThatCommon

Jared Sullinger: Please be mindful of your decisions. At night don’t make your self look like danger. Cops have to do their job and value they life as well. I’m not justifying what the cop did. But at night with BB Gun. That’s not a smart choice…. from a far BB guns look real. I pray that we make the right decisions…. I pray we remove these fetal callings and smart up and understand. There’s a cause and effect. For every action there’s gonna be a reaction… let’s make our actions positive not negative.
5 days ago – via Twitter

Yeah, saw that a couple of days ago. I agree with him 100%. Very few people understand the level of stress involved in being a police officer. They don't understand going to work everyday to a job where they know that they may be put in a position where they may have to make a split second decision that could result in the death or serious injury to another human being or themselves.

Unfortunately, the media never/rarely reports when officers do their jobs correctly (which the overwhelming number of them do every day). The end result is that people end up with a skewed point of view because what they see can lead one to believe that all cops are bad.

 

[tlance]

The Psychology of some of these situations would be fascinating, if it wasn't so sad.

I feel like I'm in a unique situation to see things from both sides and the different points of view are astonishing.

Example: I saw a Facebook post from one of my friends relatives that stated, all restaurants in the area should refuse to serve cops.

The rub?

His Aunt, Grandfather and 2 Cousins are Deputy Sheriff's.

When pulled on the carpet he stated " Well, I didn't mean y'all".

One of my husband's friends, who works for a PD, made a post that suggested all BLM protesters should be shot on sight because blacks were born predisposed to violence and it will just lead to more rioting.

When my husband reminded him that his wife and 2 Children are black. He stated, " Yeah...But, I didn't mean them."

I think people on all sides are too emotional to step back and look at what is really going on. The violence is being perpetrated as if they are connected in some type of discriminatory pattern. The reality is that the more negative feelings people harbor against police, the less likely they are to cooperate and the more likely they are to get shot. That is equally true for people of all skin colors. But, if one race feels targeted like media wants everyone to believe, then interactions will continue to get worse. It is a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

In all honesty, I didn't realize how much of a violation profiling is until I experienced for myself. And yes a lot of the misconception of most situations is based on how the media portrays the situations and the individuals involved. I also think that many people use the "race" card to perpetuate most situations which is wrong- no matter who is doing it.

I know I could have conversations/debates on this for days- because it's always interesting to hear things from a different perspective. Being an executive assistant has literally put me in a position in corp. America that forces me to deal with every type of person. Ironically I've learned so much about myself and how my views in general were so one-sided as a young adult.

Well said.

 

[LAD]

Well said.

Thank you!

 

[trojanfan12]

Ironically I've learned so much about myself and how my views in general were so one-sided as a young adult.

I think all of us are pretty one-sided as young adults. We were all so convinced that we were right, no one else had ever experienced what we were and the older folks "just didn't get it." We also had the energy to go out and take on the world armed with our own righteousness.

Then, as we get older and have more experiences, we start getting a little wiser (most of us anyway. lol) but are now too tired to do anything with it.

Youth is wasted on the young and wisdom is wasted on the old.

 

[msgkings322]

Well unlike the NFL it is mandatory to stand in the NBA so will be interesting how they handle it if someone sits out the anthem

The teams are already talking about it, most seem to be ok with whatever the players want to do. The league is obviously the most African-American sports league in the US, both in terms of players and viewers and even owners. So they will be ok with simple actions that support AA causes. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[msgkings322]

I'd expect that there may be some NBA players who will try to join in on the protest. If the league follows it's policy, those players will be fined. The league could also choose to change the policy.

What will be interesting will be to see what the league does if players choose to raise a fist or come up with another form of protest that can be done while standing. As far as I know, the rule just states that players have to stand for the national anthem. I don't know if it says they have to stand a particular way or not.

On the protest itself. I have no issue with a players right to protest. I do have a problem with protests that aren't well thought out (which this wasn't, at least not by Kaepernick who got it started). As Wiggy said, "put your money where your mouth is, take action."

Also, I think they need to find a way to protest that doesn't involve the anthem or the flag. Kaepernick (and those following his lead) may say that the flag/anthem doesn't mean the military to them, but to millions of others, that's the first they think of. Especially those who serve, have served or have had loved ones who served. It's not dissimilar to when people in the south who wanted to fly the confederate flag said that it doesn't stand for slavery to them and were reminded that to millions of others...slavery is exactly what it stands for.

Kapernick and many other players ARE putting up cash too, just need to Google it. As far as is the anthem the right venue, that's tougher, but you have to pick something that will get noticed. If you protest something no one cares about, you aren't making an effective protest. Kap picked a way that he knew would get lots of media attention. I think it's working as intended.

 

[msgkings322]

I think all of us are pretty one-sided as young adults. We were all so convinced that we were right, no one else had ever experienced what we were and the older folks "just didn't get it." We also had the energy to go out and take on the world armed with our own righteousness.

Then, as we get older and have more experiences, we start getting a little wiser (most of us anyway. lol) but are now too tired to do anything with it.

Youth is wasted on the young and wisdom is wasted on the old.

The cliche is so true, when you are a teenager/young adult your parents (and other older adults) don't know shit. Then you become a parent and realize how wrong you were. Same as it ever was.