My Top 68 as of right now

[ericd7633]

Gonzaga played 1 team in the top 20 and lost. They've beatin a few teams hovering around #25 and their conference schedule.

Gonzaga scheduled SMU, St. Joe's, UGA, St. John's, UCLA, Arizona and Memphis. They also have a rivalry series with Washington State. They can't help it that St. Joe's, UCLA and Memphis are having down years.

Even still they have a top 20 non conference SOS.

 

[SJ76]

Gonzaga scheduled SMU, St. Joe's, UGA, St. John's, UCLA, Arizona and Memphis. They also have a rivalry series with Washington State. They can't help it that St. Joe's, UCLA and Memphis are having down years.

Even still they have a top 20 non conference SOS.

When is the last time St. Joe got to the dance and when's the last time Memphis got to the sweet 16? UCLA sure they're down this year. UGA? Not a basketball school at all. SMU has a pretty good team, but haven't been to the dance for awhile too.

I'm not saying Gonzaga isn't good, but you and I both know they're not going anywhere in the tourney. They never do. Bottom line they are MAYBE a top 10 basketball squad this year.

 

[SJ76]

And yes, they played a significantly better non conference schedule than Illinois did.

Cincy's Non Conf SOS = 20
Illinois' Non Conf SOS = 171

Whoever is doing the non-conf SoS is smoking crack.

Cincy with NC St, Ole Miss, SDSU, VCU, Nebraska = #20?
Illinois with Baylor, Nova, Oregon, Miami - 171??

I must be missing something.

 

[ericd7633]

When is the last time St. Joe got to the dance and when's the last time Memphis got to the sweet 16? UCLA sure they're down this year. UGA? Not a basketball school at all. SMU has a pretty good team, but haven't been to the dance for awhile too.

I'm not saying Gonzaga isn't good, but you and I both know they're not going anywhere in the tourney. They never do. Bottom line they are MAYBE a top 10 basketball squad this year.

St Joe's made the tournament last year, you can argue they gave Uconn their toughest game as well. Memphis is down this year, but they've made 4 tournaments in a row and have been a top 35, team the last 4 years. UGA is basically no different than Oregon this year, who you've been pimping. And Baylor and SMU are only about a 1 seed line difference.

And who cares what they do in the tournament? You can play the toughest schedule in the world, like Kansas last year, and get knocked out in the 2nd round, or you can play an easier schedule, like Gonzaga in 2013 and get knocked out in the 2nd round. Duke lost as a 2 seed a couple years back, I guess they shouldn't have been a 2 seed then?

 

[ericd7633]

Whoever is doing the non-conf SoS is smoking crack.

Cincy with NC St, Ole Miss, SDSU, VCU, Nebraska = #20?
Illinois with Baylor, Nova, Oregon, Miami - 171??

I must be missing something.

Yes, you are, it's called the rest of the games. And that is the RPI's SOS, which is used by the committee, FWIW. Also, Cincy played Xavier, who you are conveniently leaving out of this.

 

[SJ76]

St Joe's made the tournament last year, you can argue they gave Uconn their toughest game as well. Memphis is down this year, but they've made 4 tournaments in a row and have been a top 35, team the last 4 years. UGA is basically no different than Oregon this year, who you've been pimping. And Baylor and SMU are only about a 1 seed line difference.

And who cares what they do in the tournament? You can play the toughest schedule in the world, like Kansas last year, and get knocked out in the 2nd round, or you can play an easier schedule, like Gonzaga in 2013 and get knocked out in the 2nd round. Duke lost as a 2 seed a couple years back, I guess they shouldn't have been a 2 seed then?

Who cares what they do in the tournament? So how do you judge teams year after year?? By height? Duke may have lost in the 2nd round 1 year, but they don't consistently lose early in the tourney. Gonzaga does. I said Gonzaga isn't bad.. They just don't deserve a #1 seed in my eyes. AZ beat them and they really haven't played a top 20 school besides them.

My bad on St. Joe. But Oregon just beat Utah my man. Who's Georgia beat? Bama, Ole Miss, and A&M? No difference? I don't have to pimp anyone, the schedule and W/L's pimp themselves.

And like I said, when has Memphis been to round 2 of the dance?

 

[SJ76]

Yes, you are, it's called the rest of the games. And that is the RPI's SOS, which is used by the committee, FWIW. Also, Cincy played Xavier, who you are conveniently leaving out of this.

Fuck these conferences switch teams in and out like crazy. Xavier isn't bad. But when you lose to Tulane and East Carolina in late Jan and FEB, it's not good.

We'll just have to disagree. It happens

 

[ericd7633]

Who cares what they do in the tournament? So how do you judge teams year after year?? By height? Duke may have lost in the 2nd round 1 year, but they don't consistently lose early in the tourney. Gonzaga does.

My bad on St. Joe. But Oregon just beat Utah my man. Who's Georgia beat? Bama, Ole Miss, and A&M? No difference? I don't have to pimp anyone, the schedule and W/L's pimp themselves.

And like I said, when has Memphis been to round 2 of the dance?

I'm saying you can't judge a team as being overrated, or over seeded based on what they do in the tournament. It's a one and done format. Upsets happen more in this tournament than in any other postseason format. And Duke, outside of their title run in 2010 has lost early in the tournament more times than not, were they overrated in 2007, 2008, 2012 and 2014 when they couldn't get past the 2nd weekend, no, they just got upset.

Yes, Oregon beat Utah, it's one game, damn. lol. You know what else they did? Lost to Ole Miss, who lost to UGA. Bringing up one game, is extremely weak when there have been close to 30 played.

Gonzaga and Cincy both have played top 25 Non Conf SOS's. I don't see how you can argue otherwise when it's a FACT.

 

[rmilia1]

While I think the good teams on Illinois ooc schedule were better than the good teams on Cincinnati the illini played 6 ooc games vs 200 plus rpi teams. Too put it simply Illinois played better top teams by a little and played wayyyy worse bad teams. It's about the ooc as a whole, not just select games

 

[ericd7633]

Fuck these conferences switch teams in and out like crazy. Xavier isn't bad. But when you lose to Tulane and East Carolina in late Jan and FEB, it's not good.

We'll just have to disagree. It happens

Yes, those are bad losses. You have to judge the whole body of work. Cincy's resume is slightly better than Illinois' is at this point. That could certainly change, however. They could both play themselves in the field, and both out of the field. It's still very fluid.

 

[SJ76]

I'm smellin what your steppin in man!

But If Nebraska, NC St, VCU, Ole Miss, SDSU, Xavier are the 20th best SoS and Nova, Baylor, Miami, Oregon are 171 then someone's computer has a bug. Nova will be a 2 seed and Baylor a 3 seed most likely. Miami has a good team in a tough conference. Oregon is 3rd in the Pac 12 with a top 10 victory.

Duke may had a few years where they got bounced early, but it's not every year like the Zags. If you're sticking up for that sorry ass schedule, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[SJ76]

While I think the good teams on Illinois ooc schedule were better than the good teams on Cincinnati the illini played 6 ooc games vs 200 plus rpi teams. Too put it simply Illinois played better top teams by a little and played wayyyy worse bad teams. It's about the ooc as a whole, not just select games

Wish I had time to break it all down. I just know we really don't have any bad losses like Tulane and East Carolina. And we've played some dam good teams, not a weak ass schedule. Rmilia, always the voice of reason.

 

[ericd7633]

While I think the good teams on Illinois ooc schedule were better than the good teams on Cincinnati the illini played 6 ooc games vs 200 plus rpi teams. Too put it simply Illinois played better top teams by a little and played wayyyy worse bad teams. It's about the ooc as a whole, not just select games

Exactly, Illinois, out of the two teams, played the best two teams in Nova and Baylor. With that said, Cincy played the next best FIVE teams with VCU, SDSU, Ole Miss, Xavier and NC State. I mean just look at the 5th best team(RPI wise) both teams played. Illinois' 5th toughest game was Georgia Southern(140) and Cincy's was NC State(48) that's a pretty sizable gap.

Illinois loaded up on TERRIBLE teams. I will say Mizzou sucking definitely hurt the Illini schedule, but the same could be said for Cincy and Nebraska.

 

[uncfan103]

Wofford has an RPI of 53. Out of the 1 bid leagues that is fantastic. They really only have one truly bad loss. They also have two top 50 RPI wins. The committee isn't seeding the conference, it's seeding the AQ from that conference. If Wofford wins the league they will be in that 12/13 range. I'd be stunned if they were on the 14 line. If Chattanooga wins the league I could see them possibly being a 14. Everybody else would more than likely be a 16.

If any power 5 team lost to Chattanooga it'd be considered a bad loss. Just because Chattanooga is doing good in a bad conference does not make it a good loss for Wofford. It's a bad loss. But, the more I think about Wofford will probably be around the 12/13 seed because that's about where teams that finish around .500 in a power conference with a couple bad losses will get seeded.

 

[Smart]

Whoever is doing the non-conf SoS is smoking crack.

Cincy with NC St, Ole Miss, SDSU, VCU, Nebraska = #20?
Illinois with Baylor, Nova, Oregon, Miami - 171??

I must be missing something.

Illinois made the million-dollar mistake of playing extra-shitty shitty opponents. If you only played regular shitty opponents, you would be fine. You guys played four teams ranked below 300. If you had played, North Florida instead of Kennesaw, Norfolk State instead of Hampton, Hofstra instead of Coppin State, and Eastern Illinois instead of Austin Peay, your RPI would be much better.

It's why RPI sucks. It places way too much value on the strength of your shitty opponents even if neither shitty opponent was a threat. Efficiency stats at least reward teams for beating down the super-shitters (like you did in your 58 point win over Coppin). That's one reason why it is much more effective ranker of teams.

Ranking Team X over Team Y because Team X beat #155 by 12 and Team Y beat #287 by 31 is a major, possibly fatal flaw with RPI.

 

[ericd7633]

I'm smellin what your steppin in man!

But If Nebraska, NC St, VCU, Ole Miss, SDSU, Xavier are the 20th best SoS and Nova, Baylor, Miami, Oregon are 171 then someone's computer has a bug. Nova will be a 2 seed and Baylor a 3 seed most likely. Miami has a good team in a tough conference. Oregon is 3rd in the Pac 12 with a top 10 victory.

Duke may had a few years where they got bounced early, but it's not every year like the Zags. If you're sticking up for that sorry ass schedule, then I don't know what to tell you.

Illinois ALSO scheduled: Coppin State, Austin Peay, Brown, Indiana State, American, Hampton, Missouri, and Kennesaw State, four of which have an RPI over 300.

By comparison Cincy scheduled ZERO teams with an RPI over 300. Do you see why the difference is huge in Cincy's favor?

I'm not sticking up for their sorry ass schedule. Their conference schedule is not good. I've admitted that, but it won't be the reason they lose early in the tournament if they do. Duke and Kansas played ridiculously hard schedules last year and that got them a first and second round loss respectively.

 

[ericd7633]

If any power 5 team lost to Chattanooga it'd be considered a bad loss. Just because Chattanooga is doing good in a bad conference does not make it a good loss for Wofford. It's a bad loss. But, the more I think about Wofford will probably be around the 12/13 seed because that's about where teams that finish around .500 in a power conference with a couple bad losses will get seeded.

Sure losing to them is a bad loss, but it's not as if it will hurt them in terms of selection because they need to win the auto bid to get in. That loss won't hurt their seeding, I guess is what I meant to say. The Citadel loss could conceivably drop them a seed line, however, because it's a terrible loss.

 

[TrollyMcTroller]

While I think the good teams on Illinois ooc schedule were better than the good teams on Cincinnati the illini played 6 ooc games vs 200 plus rpi teams. Too put it simply Illinois played better top teams by a little and played wayyyy worse bad teams. It's about the ooc as a whole, not just select games

Yes, and no.

Trying to distill how good one's schedule is down to a single number is pointless. That number by itself is only good for comparing two teams that on paper have otherwise very similar resumes. Other than that it's pretty pointless.

You can break up the upper portion of your competition into however levels you want (Elite, really good, good, decent, etc) but once you get past the decent teams, I don't think it really matters much.

If team A plays 10 games against literally the ten worst teams in the country, and Team B plays 10 games against competition in the 200s They're still all garbage teams as far as resume goes, they are all, cupcakes that should be won by any tournament team, so it doesn't matter how crappy your crappy games are. All those games do is skew the already meaningless SOS number.

Unless you're losing to the crappy teams, those games really shouldn't matter. They're just filler on the schedule.
How you play against the good teams should matter much more.

If you're going to use a single number to quantify a schedule (which I still think is a bad idea since we have computers now and can compare any two teams with a couple of clicks) I'd rather see something like COS (challenge of schedule) where it is based on where your competition is ranked relative to your ranking. That way you'd get more credit for actually scheduling challenging and winnable games. The weighting would basically be like a bell curve with your ranking at the center of the curve. The teams you play that are ranked closest to you (that should provide the best challenge) would be weighted more than the teams ranked way above or below. Gonzaga wouldn't necessarily be punished for playing a bunch of bad teams, but they wouldn't be rewarded unless they played some good ones too. And Long Beach State wouldn't be rewarded for scheduling a bunch of hopeless games against teams they have no prayer of beating.

 

[ericd7633]

Illinois made the million-dollar mistake of playing extra-shitty shitty opponents. If you only played regular shitty opponents, you would be fine. You guys played four teams ranked below 300. If you had played, North Florida instead of Kennesaw, Norfolk State instead of Hampton, Hofstra instead of Coppin State, and Eastern Illinois instead of Austin Peay, your RPI would be much better.

It's why RPI sucks. It places way too much value on the strength of your shitty opponents even if neither shitty opponent was a threat. Efficiency stats at least reward teams for beating down the super-shitters (like you did in your 58 point win over Coppin). That's one reason why it is much more effective ranker of teams.

Ranking Team X over Team Y because Team X beat #155 by 12 and Team Y beat #287 by 31 is a major, possibly fatal flaw with RPI.

I don't feel bad for Illinois at all. If you knowingly schedule MEAC teams there is a possibility they will finish 250+ in the RPI. If you're fortunate enough to schedule a MEAC team that finishes in the top 2 it won't hurt you as much, but that's the risk you take. Also, the same can be said for scheduling an A-Sun team, unless you get the best team in that conference(regular season wise) you're getting a guarantee game against a team that more than likely will be 200+ and a good chance of it being 250+. Same with Austin Peay. They scheduled BAD teams in BAD leagues. And it hurt them that Indiana State and Missouri are worse than usual this year. And I'll even throw Brown into that equation. If you schedule an IVY league school and it's not Harvard, chances are that's going to be a 200+ game as well.

 

[SJ76]

We need another year anyway. I just hate being like a Cubs fan.