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My New Mock - Bored

DanBengalfan

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The Bengals really make things hard by relying on good drafts to build a playoff team, and being fairly conservative in free agency.
 

BKBroiler9000

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This could’ve easily been solved if this idiot front office would’ve signed a veteran WR or starting Guard in FA. Could’ve opened themselves up to take BPA/whoever they wanted.

Instead they created 2.5 months of anguish over taking Penei Sewell and having the slowest WR core in the NFL. Or taking Ja’Marr Chase to replace AJ Green, and rolling the dice that 8 starting OL don’t go off the board right before #38 and being left holding the bag...
 

Cincyfan78

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My ode to Crash to show I'm not Anti-Chase - just really hoping that the draft breaks for the Bengals if they decide to stick at 5 and take Chase. In this instance, Sewell went 4th to ATL anyway - and instead of trading back, I stuck with Chase. The draft broke about as perfect as it could.

1619388828780.png
 

cincygrad

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Here's the thing.... The Bengals had the right idea back in 2015. Aging players on the line - They take two tackles in the first two rounds.

The idea was right. The execution was wrong.
 

CrashDavisSports

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Best WR we'll ever see...

Come on man, remove the glasses. You love chase...that's all good, but you're teetering on nonsensical at this point. Green was a 6'4" nearly freak of nature at the draft. I mean, he and Julio were clear cut #1's...And Chase may be good, but I don't hear near the chatter from him than I did either of those guys.

This team absolutely needs OL help in the worst way, and there are many who project Sewell as an AP lineman.

Maybe ATL decides to take Chase to pair up on that offense with Ryan - and removes the temptation from the Bengals to ignore the best player available and one who actually fits a need. After all, Julio isn't getting any younger, and he would pair nicely with the WR they got last year.

As for actual Best Player Available - I think you are splitting hairs with Chase/Sewell - even if you believe that Sewell is a nudge behind, the fact that he fills a giant hole can't be ignored. It's not like they are reaching 9, 10, 11 picks above where he's projected to go in many, many mocks. He's right there in line with the 5th pick.

At this point, Chase is a luxury pick the Bengals really cannot afford, IMO. They risk not landing enough impact OL to help them, and I fear at this point they will reap what they sow. Burrow injured another year - and quickly losing interest in trusting this organization has his best interest at heart in protecting him. Hard to see it any other way after running out that group they did last year knowing they were going to select him #1 overall. Had they done their job last year and beefed up the OL - maybe Joe wouldn't be injured, and maybe the Bengals could actually take a Chase this year instead of needing more OL work....again. As it has been since 2016.
How tall and good was Antonio Brown before he lost his mind? I am still routing for Chase. But like I said, I will still be content with Pitts or Sewell. A giant hole at guard? Because they already said that Williams is their LT and Reiff is their right. So is our first round pick a backup in year one or is he a starting guard out of position?
 

CrashDavisSports

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Best WR we'll ever see...

Come on man, remove the glasses. You love chase...that's all good, but you're teetering on nonsensical at this point. Green was a 6'4" nearly freak of nature at the draft. I mean, he and Julio were clear cut #1's...And Chase may be good, but I don't hear near the chatter from him than I did either of those guys.

This team absolutely needs OL help in the worst way, and there are many who project Sewell as an AP lineman.

Maybe ATL decides to take Chase to pair up on that offense with Ryan - and removes the temptation from the Bengals to ignore the best player available and one who actually fits a need. After all, Julio isn't getting any younger, and he would pair nicely with the WR they got last year.

As for actual Best Player Available - I think you are splitting hairs with Chase/Sewell - even if you believe that Sewell is a nudge behind, the fact that he fills a giant hole can't be ignored. It's not like they are reaching 9, 10, 11 picks above where he's projected to go in many, many mocks. He's right there in line with the 5th pick.

At this point, Chase is a luxury pick the Bengals really cannot afford, IMO. They risk not landing enough impact OL to help them, and I fear at this point they will reap what they sow. Burrow injured another year - and quickly losing interest in trusting this organization has his best interest at heart in protecting him. Hard to see it any other way after running out that group they did last year knowing they were going to select him #1 overall. Had they done their job last year and beefed up the OL - maybe Joe wouldn't be injured, and maybe the Bengals could actually take a Chase this year instead of needing more OL work....again. As it has been since 2016.
I still consider what happened to Burrow a freak accident and if they had a great oline, there is a possibility Burrow still gets hurt like that as no offensive line is going to stonewall the competition 100% of the time. Granted, you can have some better players to minimize the number of opportunities of hitting Burrow, but that doesn't necessarily remove the possible of a freak accident from happening either.

I still make the luxury pick with options in round 2 and 3 on tackles and guards. Once again, whoever we draft at this point is going to be a guard or a backup. I am looking for immediate impact starter, and with Boyd and Higgins also running routes beside Chase, Chase could end up with 1200-1400 yards in his rookie season.
 

Cincyfan78

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I still consider what happened to Burrow a freak accident and if they had a great oline, there is a possibility Burrow still gets hurt like that as no offensive line is going to stonewall the competition 100% of the time. Granted, you can have some better players to minimize the number of opportunities of hitting Burrow, but that doesn't necessarily remove the possible of a freak accident from happening either.

I still make the luxury pick with options in round 2 and 3 on tackles and guards. Once again, whoever we draft at this point is going to be a guard or a backup. I am looking for immediate impact starter, and with Boyd and Higgins also running routes beside Chase, Chase could end up with 1200-1400 yards in his rookie season.
Sure, it can be a freak accident, but you know what helps prevent those from happening? Ensuring that the line is better. The better the line, the less likely you are to have those accidents occur. It's about being able to hedge that bet - not about eliminating the threat entirely.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Chase, IMO, is not AJ Green or Julio Jones and the Bengals are not in the position to risk not getting an impact OL. IF they didn't have Boyd or Higgins, I'd be more agreeable but they do. And guys like the kid from UNC and others will also be there in round 2 to help fill in that THIRD role as the WR....which is exactly why taking a WR at 5 is a luxury pick unless you are set at other positions (which they are not) or there isn't a fit/need combo available (which there is) or if you don't have a true #1 type WR and need a WR (But they do).....
 

Cincyfan78

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Here's the thing.... The Bengals had the right idea back in 2015. Aging players on the line - They take two tackles in the first two rounds.

The idea was right. The execution was wrong.
They did. They mis-calculated on their scouting and/or reached - not sure which.

Their biggest crime, though, wasn't that they missed on these guys but that when they KNEW - THEY KNEW - they weren't any good - they doubled down on them and let guys like Whit walk.

Teams miss on draft picks all the time. That happens. What kept the Bengals from sustaining their momentum on offense was their stubbornness to admit that they missed, even when the evidence was right in front of them, and either take addition OL or re-sign the guys they had until they could find replacements.
 

CrashDavisSports

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Sure, it can be a freak accident, but you know what helps prevent those from happening? Ensuring that the line is better. The better the line, the less likely you are to have those accidents occur. It's about being able to hedge that bet - not about eliminating the threat entirely.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this point. Chase, IMO, is not AJ Green or Julio Jones and the Bengals are not in the position to risk not getting an impact OL. IF they didn't have Boyd or Higgins, I'd be more agreeable but they do. And guys like the kid from UNC and others will also be there in round 2 to help fill in that THIRD role as the WR....which is exactly why taking a WR at 5 is a luxury pick unless you are set at other positions (which they are not) or there isn't a fit/need combo available (which there is) or if you don't have a true #1 type WR and need a WR (But they do).....
I am just not sold on him, and stuff like this doesn't help:

With the Falcons still publicly undecided on the fourth overall pick, the draft’s top offensive lineman has been occasionally connected to Atlanta. After all, look at what the Titans did to help Arthur Smith put together a dominant offense. They drafted offensive linemen high and often. Why not add the top tackle in the draft who should help the offense for the next decade?

“I put the tape on expecting to see Jonathan Ogden or Joe Thomas or Walter Jones or Orlando Pace, and I didn’t see it,” one longtime scout said. “But he’s going high because there’s nobody else.”

Another scout said Sewell projects to be a good player but not a “generational” talent. The term generational seems to be thrown around a lot but Kyle Pitts is expected to be a generational talent, however, tight ends have never been drafted as early as the Falcons’ pick. If Sewell goes as high as 4, you would hope he becomes a great player, if not borderline generational.


I completely disagree with you on Chase. I believe he is every bit as good if not better than Green or Jones. He doesn't have the size, but overall he is an absolute beast because he is a guy who would be willing to hit someone on the outside in running plays. He loves to play physical, wins 9 out of 10 jump balls, can make circus catches, the routine is nothing, premium route runner, fast and creates seperation with his agility and route running, can play any of the positions at WR and is familiar for Burrow who had the best season of his college career with Chase, who also excelled. In my opinion, Chase is the best player in this draft, but with so many teams needing QB's and him opting out for a year, we could get lucky he drops to #5.
 

Cincyfan78

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I am just not sold on him, and stuff like this doesn't help:

With the Falcons still publicly undecided on the fourth overall pick, the draft’s top offensive lineman has been occasionally connected to Atlanta. After all, look at what the Titans did to help Arthur Smith put together a dominant offense. They drafted offensive linemen high and often. Why not add the top tackle in the draft who should help the offense for the next decade?



Another scout said Sewell projects to be a good player but not a “generational” talent. The term generational seems to be thrown around a lot but Kyle Pitts is expected to be a generational talent, however, tight ends have never been drafted as early as the Falcons’ pick. If Sewell goes as high as 4, you would hope he becomes a great player, if not borderline generational.


I completely disagree with you on Chase. I believe he is every bit as good if not better than Green or Jones. He doesn't have the size, but overall he is an absolute beast because he is a guy who would be willing to hit someone on the outside in running plays. He loves to play physical, wins 9 out of 10 jump balls, can make circus catches, the routine is nothing, premium route runner, fast and creates seperation with his agility and route running, can play any of the positions at WR and is familiar for Burrow who had the best season of his college career with Chase, who also excelled. In my opinion, Chase is the best player in this draft, but with so many teams needing QB's and him opting out for a year, we could get lucky he drops to #5.
You take me wanting Sewell like I think he's the best of the best. I'm already on record as saying they should drop back, get extra picks, and select Darrisaw in that 9-12 range.

The issue to me comes that you are going to be making a solid position better, while not doing anything to help the weakest position immediately. If the Bengals get lucky and land an impact OL (Cosmi, Leatherwood, Jenkins) in round 2 then great...and it worked out. But you could still do so much better by looking at the full needs of this team and passing on Chase.
 

Cincyfan78

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And while the return of the OL coach is nice - the issue, IMO, isn't just coaching. It's a pure lack of talent across the board at the OL positions excluding Williams and Reiff (who is playing RT and I think will do well there, but still a new position). So, I don't think anyone can fault some real hesitancy with how much of an impact Pollack can make with this OL - I mean, at the end of the day, crap is still crap.
 

CrashDavisSports

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#1 - Ja'Marr Chase, WR, LSU
#2 - Quinn Meinerz, OG/C, Wisconsin-Whitewater
#3 - Walker Little, OT, Stanford
#4 - Jaylen Twyman, DE, Pittsburgh
#5 - Tay Gowan, CB, UFC
#6 - Tre' McKitty, TE, Georgia
#7 - Buddy Johnson, LB, Texas A&M
 

CrashDavisSports

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You take me wanting Sewell like I think he's the best of the best. I'm already on record as saying they should drop back, get extra picks, and select Darrisaw in that 9-12 range.

The issue to me comes that you are going to be making a solid position better, while not doing anything to help the weakest position immediately. If the Bengals get lucky and land an impact OL (Cosmi, Leatherwood, Jenkins) in round 2 then great...and it worked out. But you could still do so much better by looking at the full needs of this team and passing on Chase.
I still think Meinerz is the pick in round 2, OG/C that can make an immediate impact on the oline, and should easily be there with our 2nd round pick, as he is projected later in the second. Walker Little was projected to be a top 5 pick prior to him getting hurt two years ago and then opting out last year. Guy has played in 1 college game in 2 years, but has elite skills and could drop all t he way down to our 3rd round pick potentially because of that separation of game tape to current year. He is a risk, but a high reward, low risk guy especially in the 3rd round.

I think our biggest improvement on our oline is going to be health and Reiff. You get rid of Bobby freaking Hart and put a "quality RT" in his place, and now you have guys starting to heal up like Williams, Su'a-Filo, and a year in the system, Spain improved each week it seemed. While I am a little concerned about the line and its depth, I think we can nab a starter in round 2, and some depth in round 3 to grow on. Plus, I don't think cuts of decent offensive lineman are done yet, and after the draft I can picture a couple guys hitting FA that could possibly be looked at by management with a 1 year deal to prove it.

I really don't think we are as "desperate" as you and some experts are making this out to be. Concerned a little? Yes, indeed. We need guys to stay healthy, and we need to create a little depth. But I don't think transitioning a college tackle to guard and hope the transition takes affect while leaving the best WR on the board in the last decade is a smart decision. Does it make a position of somewhat strength much better while leaving an area of concern unattended in the 1st round..yes. Is it smart to draft based off need instead of best player available? No.
 

Cincyfan78

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I still think Meinerz is the pick in round 2, OG/C that can make an immediate impact on the oline, and should easily be there with our 2nd round pick, as he is projected later in the second. Walker Little was projected to be a top 5 pick prior to him getting hurt two years ago and then opting out last year. Guy has played in 1 college game in 2 years, but has elite skills and could drop all t he way down to our 3rd round pick potentially because of that separation of game tape to current year. He is a risk, but a high reward, low risk guy especially in the 3rd round.

I think our biggest improvement on our oline is going to be health and Reiff. You get rid of Bobby freaking Hart and put a "quality RT" in his place, and now you have guys starting to heal up like Williams, Su'a-Filo, and a year in the system, Spain improved each week it seemed. While I am a little concerned about the line and its depth, I think we can nab a starter in round 2, and some depth in round 3 to grow on. Plus, I don't think cuts of decent offensive lineman are done yet, and after the draft I can picture a couple guys hitting FA that could possibly be looked at by management with a 1 year deal to prove it.

I really don't think we are as "desperate" as you and some experts are making this out to be. Concerned a little? Yes, indeed. We need guys to stay healthy, and we need to create a little depth. But I don't think transitioning a college tackle to guard and hope the transition takes affect while leaving the best WR on the board in the last decade is a smart decision. Does it make a position of somewhat strength much better while leaving an area of concern unattended in the 1st round..yes. Is it smart to draft based off need instead of best player available? No.
I don't think they are desperate, but I don't think they can simply just count on Health and Pollack. They were 30th ranked OL by PFF. Health an a coach isn't going to cut it. To get into that top 15 range, and push top 10 where Burrow and Mixon can really explode and carry this team - they need to be top 10. That may not change in 1 draft, but they can make massive strides right now to move in that direction, IMO.

Sua was allowed to leave Dallas for a reason. Spain got paid, but got cut for a reason. I'm all for taking a shot on these guys, but the problem is they are simply the next guys in a long list of guys who are being given shots who have not worked out well, or at all.

I think they need to play the smart card and that is get an OL in the 1st round. If that's Sewell, then fine. Again, I'd prefer a potential trade back (if possible) and grab Darrisaw and extra 2nd round pick where you can still land a WR and another OL. Suddenly, you've added Reiff, Meinerz (or other) and Brown from UNC (for example).

You've infused talent and depth across the OL, added potential starters from day 1, and still upgraded the WR position.

Chase helps the WR position, but if you put your chips into a guy who hasn't played in 2+ years in Little (not a fan) or a smaller time college with lesser competition and they flame out - you get Chase, and almost no immediate OL help AND then what? Sua goes down with another injury and you're back to plugging in Jordan or Price at OG? No thanks.

I'll say this, though as someone else said - this shouldn't even be a debate. There should have 100% been another signing on that OL in F/A prior to the draft to shore up that line and allow them the freedom to sign Chase. Maybe they still sign someone after the fact, but again - you can only make the decision with the information on hand at that time, and that is - this OL is still a mess no matter how much anyone tries to sugar coat it. Maybe not 30th bad if healthy, but they still aren't in that top 20 with the lack of talent they are showing from LG/C/RG right now, and Hopkins coming off an ACL.
 

CrashDavisSports

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I don't think they are desperate, but I don't think they can simply just count on Health and Pollack. They were 30th ranked OL by PFF. Health an a coach isn't going to cut it. To get into that top 15 range, and push top 10 where Burrow and Mixon can really explode and carry this team - they need to be top 10. That may not change in 1 draft, but they can make massive strides right now to move in that direction, IMO.

Sua was allowed to leave Dallas for a reason. Spain got paid, but got cut for a reason. I'm all for taking a shot on these guys, but the problem is they are simply the next guys in a long list of guys who are being given shots who have not worked out well, or at all.

I think they need to play the smart card and that is get an OL in the 1st round. If that's Sewell, then fine. Again, I'd prefer a potential trade back (if possible) and grab Darrisaw and extra 2nd round pick where you can still land a WR and another OL. Suddenly, you've added Reiff, Meinerz (or other) and Brown from UNC (for example).

You've infused talent and depth across the OL, added potential starters from day 1, and still upgraded the WR position.

Chase helps the WR position, but if you put your chips into a guy who hasn't played in 2+ years in Little (not a fan) or a smaller time college with lesser competition and they flame out - you get Chase, and almost no immediate OL help AND then what? Sua goes down with another injury and you're back to plugging in Jordan or Price at OG? No thanks.

I'll say this, though as someone else said - this shouldn't even be a debate. There should have 100% been another signing on that OL in F/A prior to the draft to shore up that line and allow them the freedom to sign Chase. Maybe they still sign someone after the fact, but again - you can only make the decision with the information on hand at that time, and that is - this OL is still a mess no matter how much anyone tries to sugar coat it. Maybe not 30th bad if healthy, but they still aren't in that top 20 with the lack of talent they are showing from LG/C/RG right now, and Hopkins coming off an ACL.
So I see our best trade partner as New England, as they have been reporting they are really wanting Justin Fields. So now in order to make that deal you are moving back 10 spots. You get New England's pick at #15 and #46, along with New England #1 pick next year.

So now you just moved down 10 spots, possibly still losing out on Darrisaw, collecting that extra second, but having to wait until next year to get that other rookie in 2022 to try and help and it is likely going to be a pick in the 24 to 30 range.

So now who do you trade with to pick more for this year? Because now you are far enough back your target has to become Teven Jenkins in the 1st round, maybe going as high as 19.

If Chase was not on this board, there is no question, trading back is ideal. I think the way Tobin is saying, they are not going to move down. If they are not moving down to collect more value in picks and target a guy like Jenkins/Darrisaw, then it has to be Chase over Sewell in my opinion.
 

CrashDavisSports

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1619464236959.png

The Eagles took Ja'Marr Chase at #5.
The Vikings took Patrick Surtain III at #12.
The Dolphins took Rashawn Slater at #14.

Two extra 2nd round picks this year, and two extra 1st round picks next year. I would be okay with this draft, and the only consolation I have is that Chase is in the NFC and not playing with the Dolphins.
 

cincygrad

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I still consider what happened to Burrow a freak accident and if they had a great oline, there is a possibility Burrow still gets hurt like that as no offensive line is going to stonewall the competition 100% of the time. Granted, you can have some better players to minimize the number of opportunities of hitting Burrow, but that doesn't necessarily remove the possible of a freak accident from happening either.

I still make the luxury pick with options in round 2 and 3 on tackles and guards. Once again, whoever we draft at this point is going to be a guard or a backup. I am looking for immediate impact starter, and with Boyd and Higgins also running routes beside Chase, Chase could end up with 1200-1400 yards in his rookie season.

There are two things that bother me about the Burrow injury. First, starting with the Pittsburgh game immediately after the bye (week before injury), he was getting drilled. He took some serious hits in that Pittsburgh game and that had carried over to the first half of the Washington game. Even though he was shredding the Washington D, he was getting pummeled. Yet, we continued the three WR sets and over-emphasis on passing. The second issue I have is that on the play he got injured, he got hurt because an offensive lineman went to the ground. I remember Marvin Lewis talking about players keeping their feet and the importance of this for injury.... An offensive lineman as big as Michael Jordan, should not be bull-rushed to the ground. And that got him hurt.
 

CrashDavisSports

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There are two things that bother me about the Burrow injury. First, starting with the Pittsburgh game immediately after the bye (week before injury), he was getting drilled. He took some serious hits in that Pittsburgh game and that had carried over to the first half of the Washington game. Even though he was shredding the Washington D, he was getting pummeled. Yet, we continued the three WR sets and over-emphasis on passing. The second issue I have is that on the play he got injured, he got hurt because an offensive lineman went to the ground. I remember Marvin Lewis talking about players keeping their feet and the importance of this for injury.... An offensive lineman as big as Michael Jordan, should not be bull-rushed to the ground. And that got him hurt.
100% agree. Michael Jordan is not even on the team anymore. Bobby "the Whiff" Hart is gone now too. Look, I am not sitting here trying to blow smoke up any knowledgeable fans ass. I get it. The offensive line is suspect. We are also not going to remake the oline in a season.

What I do think, our offensive line coach, Pollack, will keep things like what happen to Jordan on the Burrow injury from happening. He will scheme things to keep guys from falling around Burrows legs, and open more holes for Mixon.

I also think that health in general and addition by subtraction is going to also help us.

Add in a little talent in rounds 2 and 3 for potential starter/depth.

Add in possible cuts after the draft on olineman.

This is a passing league, it has morphed entirely into that, which was the allure of drafting a guy like Burrow after the season he had at LSU to hang the ball up nearly 600 times in a season. That is about 35 throws a game. He is the point guard and going to direct the traffic. It doesn't always have to be deep tosses, it can be quick pitches, quick under routes, sideline throws, QB draw plays, screens, swing passes, etc. It is like a fast paced pro basketball team on offense. Get the ball out and into playmaker hands quickly. That also minimizes the damage that can happen to an offensive line also.

A guy like Chase in those 3 WR sets with Boyd and Higgins would be freaking lethal. There are a ton of quality offensive line guys in the draft this year within the first 3 rounds. If we are at least trying with our 2nd and 3rd round picks to improve that line, then I am okay with taking the best player in the draft who fell to 5 to us, and has an unbelievable history with our young talented QB.

Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw, Jenkins, etc. None of these guys in my eyes are guaranteed to be elite, they could be, but none that you go, holy shit my eyes just got too big for my stomach. Chase has that kind of film. I really think Chase is a pro-bowler in year one, and he never looks back. He has that kind of talent, highest ceiling, highest floor. Take Chase...don't flinch.
 

Cincyfan78

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100% agree. Michael Jordan is not even on the team anymore. Bobby "the Whiff" Hart is gone now too. Look, I am not sitting here trying to blow smoke up any knowledgeable fans ass. I get it. The offensive line is suspect. We are also not going to remake the oline in a season.

What I do think, our offensive line coach, Pollack, will keep things like what happen to Jordan on the Burrow injury from happening. He will scheme things to keep guys from falling around Burrows legs, and open more holes for Mixon.

I also think that health in general and addition by subtraction is going to also help us.

Add in a little talent in rounds 2 and 3 for potential starter/depth.

Add in possible cuts after the draft on olineman.

This is a passing league, it has morphed entirely into that, which was the allure of drafting a guy like Burrow after the season he had at LSU to hang the ball up nearly 600 times in a season. That is about 35 throws a game. He is the point guard and going to direct the traffic. It doesn't always have to be deep tosses, it can be quick pitches, quick under routes, sideline throws, QB draw plays, screens, swing passes, etc. It is like a fast paced pro basketball team on offense. Get the ball out and into playmaker hands quickly. That also minimizes the damage that can happen to an offensive line also.

A guy like Chase in those 3 WR sets with Boyd and Higgins would be freaking lethal. There are a ton of quality offensive line guys in the draft this year within the first 3 rounds. If we are at least trying with our 2nd and 3rd round picks to improve that line, then I am okay with taking the best player in the draft who fell to 5 to us, and has an unbelievable history with our young talented QB.

Sewell, Slater, Darrisaw, Jenkins, etc. None of these guys in my eyes are guaranteed to be elite, they could be, but none that you go, holy shit my eyes just got too big for my stomach. Chase has that kind of film. I really think Chase is a pro-bowler in year one, and he never looks back. He has that kind of talent, highest ceiling, highest floor. Take Chase...don't flinch.
You can't poo-poo someone else's ability to potentially be elite and then say Chase is 100% guaranteed to be elite.

The Bengals are likely going to pick Chase because...well, they're the Bengals. It may work out. But if the OL sucks again, or the draft doesn't break their way to land better impact guys, or better yet (worse) Burrow suffers another injury...

Chase is a luxury pick for a team that knows what it is doing. That's not the Bengals.
 
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