My Mock 1.0 aug

[bengaldoug]

Nobody wants Trent Richardson to be our running back of the future more than I do, but it just seems unrealistic to expect the Bengals to try to move up that far to get him.....even if we do, we're never going to be successful running the ball as long as our guards are Livings and McGlynn.....

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Nobody wants Trent Richardson to be our running back of the future more than I do, but it just seems unrealistic to expect the Bengals to try to move up that far to get him.....even if we do, we're never going to be successful running the ball as long as our guards are Livings and McGlynn.....

I agree, which is why Brown has to open his wallet for at least one guard like Nicks.

If we have to trade both our first round picks, or give up too much to move from 17 to 6-8, then I would pass too. However, if the price is reasonable, you do it. Then with pick 21 you take Cordy Glenn.

LT Andrew Whitworth
LG Carl Nicks
C Kyle Cook
RG Cordy Glenn
RT Andre Smith
TE Jermaine Gresham

That would be decent enough and you stick a Richardson back there with AJ Green, a decent #2, and Shipley and Hawkins underneath...our offense could be very good.

It is all about opening up the wallet for Nicks, and maintaining that 2nd 1st round pick this year.

Maybe we trade #17, 3rd round pick, and next years 1st. We are just mortgaging a little bit of next year for this year. We have two seconds next year and hopefully we are picking in the mid to high 20's anyways if we do this offseason right.

So we then get Richardson, Glenn, and Sanu (finishes off the offense completely with teh signing of Nicks).

Then you sign a Finnegan, and a couple FA fillers, and get what you can out of the rest of the draft.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Never going to happen.

 

[flamingrey]

I consider "position" to be both the ability and the luxury/flexability to move up. Because, really, they have to be one and the same in order to really want to make the moves to do so. If you have the luxury and not the picks, it's a moot point. And visa-versa. So, these two things really have to be one and the same, in my opinion.

Brown has also moved up only 1 time in the draft. Whether or not he's tried other times is rather irrelevant because his "value" system is vastly different than the rest of the real world, as I think we can all agree on this. That may have hampered him from moving up in the past, also, it's all speculation on whether he did or didn't try and move up to grab anyone. Who knows.

I'm not saying that this kid isn't good. I'm just of the mind that the Bengals are in no position (with luxury) to move up in this draft. If we can all pretty much conceed that Brown won't do a whole hell of a lot in F/A, then you know that these picks are going to be what this team uses to fill in the holes.

I see your point, but I don't think you can link the two together because they're both subjective - though position less than luxury. If it were one way or another, then I'd agree, but it's not.

Furthermore, we as fans see holes at RB, CB, S, LB, and two at G at a minimum. But that doesn't have to be what Brown may be seeing. Apparently, there are people in the organization that are high on Livings, based on comments that have been made. If that's true or not is anyone's guess. We've also already invested in Boling, so he's waiting in the reigns. Then add the fact that history suggests that Brown doesn't care much for the o-line, and all of a sudden those two guard spots aren't looking so bad (from Brown's perspective). Then you look at the CB and S play which was serviceable prior to Leon getting hurt. In fact, our defense was playing very well even if it was against lesser competition. So, while at the very least we do need more depth, I would not be surprised if the front office doesn't see these spots as big of holes as we see them.

Point being, what may seem like a "luxury" to one person may not for another person. And in the same light, what one may see as being in a "position" to trade up based on the assets available, another may see differently. Those are four distinct positions.

Additionally, the Bengals rarely have mid-to-late round picks, let alone multiple mid-to-late round picks in multiple years. With high picks, there is little to no room to move up. The lower the pick, the more room there is to move up, and the higher the quantity of picks, you have even more room to wiggle up. It's a unique situation. The only thing that matters in THIS situation is whether history suggests the thought of moving around has crossed Brown's mind. And history does suggest it.

And btw, I'm with you. I want to stockpile on talent, not trade up. Forget the fact that I think drafting a RB in the first round is a huge mistake (minus Sanders, LT, and AP...hindsight).

 

[Cincyfan78]

I see your point, but I don't think you can link the two together because they're both subjective - though position less than luxury. If it were one way or another, then I'd agree, but it's not.

Furthermore, we as fans see holes at RB, CB, S, LB, and two at G at a minimum. But that doesn't have to be what Brown may be seeing. Apparently, there are people in the organization that are high on Livings, based on comments that have been made. If that's true or not is anyone's guess. We've also already invested in Boling, so he's waiting in the reigns. Then add the fact that history suggests that Brown doesn't care much for the o-line, and all of a sudden those two guard spots aren't looking so bad (from Brown's perspective). Then you look at the CB and S play which was serviceable prior to Leon getting hurt. In fact, our defense was playing very well even if it was against lesser competition. So, while at the very least we do need more depth, I would not be surprised if the front office doesn't see these spots as big of holes as we see them.

Point being, what may seem like a "luxury" to one person may not for another person. And in the same light, what one may see as being in a "position" to trade up based on the assets available, another may see differently. Those are four distinct positions.

Additionally, the Bengals rarely have mid-to-late round picks, let alone multiple mid-to-late round picks in multiple years. With high picks, there is little to no room to move up. The lower the pick, the more room there is to move up, and the higher the quantity of picks, you have even more room to wiggle up. It's a unique situation. The only thing that matters in THIS situation is whether history suggests the thought of moving around has crossed Brown's mind. And history does suggest it.

And btw, I'm with you. I want to stockpile on talent, not trade up. Forget the fact that I think drafting a RB in the first round is a huge mistake (minus Sanders, LT, and AP...hindsight).

I can agree on this.

Also, I agree with not moving up, in general, unless that player is going to be your "final" piece to the puzzle, and even then I would be weary. A good team displays good depth across the board. If taking a lower RB (let's just say for arguments sake) like Miller means we could then use another higher pick we wouldn't have had to upgrade at CB...then, I think that is better all around because it's kind of like hedging your bets. If you put all your draft eggs in one basket, and that guys is injured or blows....oops. Yeah, TR rates out at a 98 and Miller maybe a 89 (made up numbers from the top of my head) but if the CB or other position we get is a highly graded position, and it fills a need, then those 2 picks > 1 pick no matter what the grade is.

Just one reason why I think (as a fan) the guard play needs to be upgraded. If you can get a kick-ass OL out there, then it won't matter (too much) who your RB is, they are going to do well. If you put all your hopes on a RB, and don't upgrade the line, then how can the RB reach the full potential? He can't.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I can agree on this.

Also, I agree with not moving up, in general, unless that player is going to be your "final" piece to the puzzle, and even then I would be weary. A good team displays good depth across the board. If taking a lower RB (let's just say for arguments sake) like Miller means we could then use another higher pick we wouldn't have had to upgrade at CB...then, I think that is better all around because it's kind of like hedging your bets. If you put all your draft eggs in one basket, and that guys is injured or blows....oops. Yeah, TR rates out at a 98 and Miller maybe a 89 (made up numbers from the top of my head) but if the CB or other position we get is a highly graded position, and it fills a need, then those 2 picks > 1 pick no matter what the grade is.

Just one reason why I think (as a fan) the guard play needs to be upgraded. If you can get a kick-ass OL out there, then it won't matter (too much) who your RB is, they are going to do well. If you put all your hopes on a RB, and don't upgrade the line, then how can the RB reach the full potential? He can't.

Trade #17, next years 1st rounder, and this years 3rd rounder.

Select Richardson.
Use second 1st round pick on Cordy Glenn, RT.

Spend FA money for a change on Carl Nicks and Cortland Finnegan.

We sacrifice our first next year, to retain that first this year and fill our holes, and give a legit shot at going somewhere in the playoffs this year. Plus, hopefully we are picking in the lower part of the first round based on season performance in 2013, and we offset that loss by having two 2nd round picks.

I know Brown will never do it, but that would be the best way to rebuild this team now and for the long run.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The Bengals will never spend enough to warrant sacrificing future draft picks.

not only that, this team is not one player away, as we can all agree.

Trading up, for where the team currently sits, and based on history of F/A signings, makes 0 sense.

 

[vancelot23]

I don't want to give up future 1st round picks. I hate when teams do that. It's bad business.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

The Bengals will never spend enough to warrant sacrificing future draft picks.

not only that, this team is not one player away, as we can all agree.

Trading up, for where the team currently sits, and based on history of F/A signings, makes 0 sense.

I disagree with that. I think we are much closer than people think as long as we insert the right players where we need them.

Nicks and Finnegan would go a long ways in doing that.

Of course, if nothing is spent in FA on anyone worth while then yeah, hard to justify giving up picks as we need enough to fill out our roster.

Nicks, Finnegan, Richardson, Glenn, Sanu

Growth from Nelson, hope Wilson, Mays, Sands grow in the other S role.

Expect growth from Dunlap, Sims, Maualuga, Moch.

Make sure Howard and Lawson are resigned and I think we are right there with draft filler in the lower rounds.

We would be mortgaging a 1st next year, but hopefully it is lower 1st and 2 - 2nd round picks to offset the loss of that first by strengthening the team this year for a deeper playoff push.

 

[kramer1]

Moch? Hahahahahaha. Hilarious.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Moch? Hahahahahaha. Hilarious.

He is a project. I would like to see him help out on special teams more next year, and then continue to progress where he can be a helpful part of the LB core in 2013.

 

[vancelot23]

You might as well get the Nicks idea out of your head. I can absolutely guarantee Carl Nicks is not going to be a Bengal next season. No way. Rather than trade up for Richardson, I'd much rather:

Draft DeCastro 17th. He might go earlier, but guards just don't go top 10, so there's a legitimate shot at him. Sign a CB. Carlos Rogers is a dream scenario, but not happening. Tracy Porter or somebody in that range would be good. Draft a S and a RB with the 21st pick and our 2nd round pick. If Barron is available, then maybe draft Barron in the 1st and then somebody like David Wilson in the 2nd. That solves way more issues than giving up picks and drafting a RB and probably not addressing the guard position. If you think Mike Brown is going to sign a high-profile G, you're crazy.

 

[cincygrad]

He is a project. I would like to see him help out on special teams more next year, and then continue to progress where he can be a helpful part of the LB core in 2013.

He's more than a project.... He's a medical retirement waiting to happen. Migraine headaches and playing linebacker isn't a good combination.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Brown had a chance to sign a nicks like guard once. Instead, Steinbach went to Cleveland because Brown doesn't believe in paying high priced money for guards.

This team is not as close as some would like it to be, despite their great year.

Smoke and mirrors this year. The schedule was brutally easy, and the Bengals wilted against above average teams like Balt and PItt.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Brown had a chance to sign a nicks like guard once. Instead, Steinbach went to Cleveland because Brown doesn't believe in paying high priced money for guards.

This team is not as close as some would like it to be, despite their great year.

Smoke and mirrors this year. The schedule was brutally easy, and the Bengals wilted against above average teams like Balt and PItt.

They only got killed once this year and that was against Pitt.

In the otehr Pitt game and both Baltimore games they were in it down to the last drive.

They lost to Denver by 2, Houston by 1.

4 of the other playoff teams they played in the AFC they were within a single score or a tie or win.

The only NFC playoff team they faced, the 49ers, they were ahead most of the game and lost by less than a TD even with a couple picks by Dalton.

We were not out of any of the games we played against playoff teams, except the one Pittsburgh game.

With some seasoning, a better Oline (hopefully) and Leon Hall back to take care of one side of the field, we should be much improved just with maturity, more less any additions. We played a weaker schedule, yes, but the 7 playoff team games we played, only once did we get outscored by 8 with a rookie QB, WR and an a terrible running game and weak Oline.

Fix the oline and the running game, get Shipley back healthy along with Leon Hall and we will be a better team for it.

 

[bengaldoug]

I agree, which is why Brown has to open his wallet for at least one guard like Nicks.

If we have to trade both our first round picks, or give up too much to move from 17 to 6-8, then I would pass too. However, if the price is reasonable, you do it. Then with pick 21 you take Cordy Glenn.

LT Andrew Whitworth
LG Carl Nicks
C Kyle Cook
RG Cordy Glenn
RT Andre Smith
TE Jermaine Gresham

That would be decent enough and you stick a Richardson back there with AJ Green, a decent #2, and Shipley and Hawkins underneath...our offense could be very good.

It is all about opening up the wallet for Nicks, and maintaining that 2nd 1st round pick this year.

Maybe we trade #17, 3rd round pick, and next years 1st. We are just mortgaging a little bit of next year for this year. We have two seconds next year and hopefully we are picking in the mid to high 20's anyways if we do this offseason right.

So we then get Richardson, Glenn, and Sanu (finishes off the offense completely with teh signing of Nicks).

Then you sign a Finnegan, and a couple FA fillers, and get what you can out of the rest of the draft.

I also can't imagine why a guard of Nicks' quality would want to leave New Orleans, where he's won a ring and is a legitimate threat to win another every year to come here....it would be an enormous step down for him....

 

[Cincyfan78]

The team is not as close as you would love to believe. They may have been close in many of those games, but so what. Without upgrading those positions that need to be upgraded, they are always going to be "close" but never "win".

Guards have to be upgraded.
WR is in need of a pairing opposite of AJ
LB have to still get better, including the middle where RM was a disapointment.
You can't be 100% certain Hall will return to form, and speed was never a asset to begin with, so now you are faced with a potentially much slower Hall and an over the hill Celements at CB.
Safeties suck. There's nothing else to add to that.

The Bengals have a lot of places they need to upgrade if they want to go from "close" to winning. Because while the Bengals sit on their hands during F/A and if they trade those picks away, other teams are going to be upgrading their weaknesses as well, making the gap that much larger that the Bengals have to cover to be better than them.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I'm not saying Cincy doesn't have a shot. Pitt is going to be in deconstruct mode with their salary cap, and Baltimore's defense isn't getting any younger and the offense this year wasn't really all that great.

The Bengals can be right in there, but at the same time, they need to continue to lay the foundation for the team, and by trading draft picks away, they would negate that. Quality depth is a real need for every team. If the Bengals were 1 or 2 guys away from the S.B. that would be one thing, but they are not. They are several players away from trying to compete for the division title, let alone the super bowl. So, to put several eggs in one basket doesn't make any sense.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

The team is not as close as you would love to believe. They may have been close in many of those games, but so what. Without upgrading those positions that need to be upgraded, they are always going to be "close" but never "win".

Guards have to be upgraded.
WR is in need of a pairing opposite of AJ
LB have to still get better, including the middle where RM was a disapointment.
You can't be 100% certain Hall will return to form, and speed was never a asset to begin with, so now you are faced with a potentially much slower Hall and an over the hill Celements at CB.
Safeties suck. There's nothing else to add to that.

The Bengals have a lot of places they need to upgrade if they want to go from "close" to winning. Because while the Bengals sit on their hands during F/A and if they trade those picks away, other teams are going to be upgrading their weaknesses as well, making the gap that much larger that the Bengals have to cover to be better than them.

Acquiring draft picks is not necessarily going to help them get to "winning" either. Draft picks are rookies that are unproven in this league, especially once you get to rounds 3-7. 1st and 2nd round picks are pretty good bets, and top 10, while not always effective, it is a surer bet than outside that top 10. Richardson I believe is a can't miss prospect, and an ideal RB for this division with the defenses it boasts.

If you want to win in this division, you run the ball well and you play defense well. Eeven with as crappy as we were on defense at times last year, we finished 6th in defense. We have a lot of young talented guys who are proving themselves.

While not the most attractive destination in the world for FA, guys that have been to SB's who now want to get paid, this is an attractive alternative if Brown opens his wallet. Young, hungry team with a ton of upside and recent "minor" success. Get paid, be part of a young and up and coming team.

I am using Nicks as an example, because I think he may be the top guard available in FA, however, if we can just get an AVERAGE guard to replace Livings (maybe that is Boling still), and a guy like Cordy Glenn with the second pick in the first, stick his 345 pound ass next to Smith, that Oline is going to be pretty decent.

Now, with the second round pick, you grab a guy like Mohamed Sanu and #2 WR is now covered. Get Shipley back healthy, add Hawkins in t he slot as well. You have a pretty decent offense, minus RB.

Add a Richardson, even at the expense of next years 1st (hopefully pick 24-32), and your offense is complete.

Finnegan has not won anything in Tennessee, so why not Cincinnati if the price is right?

Defensive backs being: Leon Hall, Nate Clements, Adam Jones, Cortland Finnegan

I agree Maualuga has to step up, but seriously, if this is our draft and FA period, even if we do not sign Nicks....

Free Agency:
*DB Cortland Finnegan
*G Ryan Diem
*WR Robert Meachem
DB Adam Jones
DE/DT Johnathan Fanene
DE Frostee Rucker
TE Donald Lee
DT Pat Sims
LB Manny Lawson
S Reggie Nelson
K Mike Nugent

Draft of:
1st - RB Trent Richardson (traded 17, 3rd and next years 1st)
1st - OG Cordy Glenn
2nd - WR Mohamed Sanu
4th - S Kelcie McCray
5th - MLB Shawn Loiseau
6th - C Moe Petrus
7th - DE Scott Solomon

Next year we lose our 1st round pick (hopefully late 1st), but we have an additional 2nd and 6th round pick from Chad Johnson trade.

 

[vancelot23]

Well I vote a big fat no. And. It even consider it.