My last Paul Goerge post and trade idea

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Ben Wallace was the ultimate teammate.

But, I never got the sense Dwight was a bad teammate until the free agency drama. He was literally a mega version of Ben Wallace. Give me young Dwight all day.

The guy that played for the Lakers and Rockets? Hell no. I am taking Ben too.

When people tell you, and treat you, like you are special all your life, it's easy to believe it.

I think TF12 mentioned this earlier, the reason he didn't reach his potential is all on him.

When you have some of the greatest players ever offering to tutor you in your shortcomings, you should take probably advantage of it.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Random thought on Howard and the guys who skipped college....

IMO, Guys like Grant Hill, Bill Walton's College careers played a huge part in them making the Hall.

The straight to the NBA crowd won't have that to strengthen their claims.

The Kobe's, Lebron's, Garnett's of the world don't need it.

But, what about fringe guys like Stoudemire?

 

[trojanfan12]

It really started before his last year in Orlando when people started talking about his free agency. He handled it terribly. He answered questions he shouldn't have answered, talked out of both sides of his mouth and turned himself into a huge distraction for the team.

That's right. Forgot about that.

 

[trojanfan12]

Just my personal opinion but Dwight doesn't seem HOF-worthy to me.

You talk about HOF players and they were absolute game changers for the majority of their careers. While it was impressive he took Orlando to the finals, that's pretty much it.

Big Ben was a large factor when they beat the Lakers in the finals.

I get what you're saying. But he was a game changer in Orlando and even though it seems like a long time ago, he still was in Orlando for the majority of his career.

Eve with what's happened in his career since, he still has put up good numbers, they've just been more or less meaningless.

He may not be the stone cold lock first ballot Hall of Famer that he was in Orlando...but he'll still get in.

Ben Wallace was a large factor vs. the Lakers. But the Lakers also greatly contributed to their own demise in that series.

 

[msgkings322]

Just my personal opinion but Dwight doesn't seem HOF-worthy to me.

You talk about HOF players and they were absolute game changers for the majority of their careers. While it was impressive he took Orlando to the finals, that's pretty much it.

Big Ben was a large factor when they beat the Lakers in the finals.

That's too strict, was every HOFer a '''game changer"? James Worthy? Dave Bing? Joe Dumars? Dennis Johnson? All greats, but game changers?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

That's too strict, was every HOFer a '''game changer"? James Worthy? Dave Bing? Joe Dumars? Dennis Johnson? All greats, but game changers?

James Worthy? Yes. He was pretty much the reason the Lakers won the 1988 title.
Joe Dumars? Yes. He was pretty much the reason the Pistons won the 1989 title.

Dennis Johnson was a finals MVP too and Dave Bing was just before my time so I can't judge him for that.

 

[msgkings322]

James Worthy? Yes. He was pretty much the reason the Lakers won the 1988 title.
Joe Dumars? Yes. He was pretty much the reason the Pistons won the 1989 title.

Dennis Johnson was a finals MVP too and Dave Bing was just before my time so I can't judge him for that.

So by game changer you mean "came up big in a Finals". So, Ewing, Barkley, Stockton, Malone?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

So by game changer you mean "came up big in a Finals". So, Ewing, Barkley, Stockton, Malone?

Were they responsible for bringing a championship to their city?

 

[msgkings322]

Were they responsible for bringing a championship to their city?

Are you really saying only players on championship teams deserve to be in the Hall? I'm asking again, you would kick out Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Drexler, Mullins on and on?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Are you really saying only players on championship teams deserve to be in the Hall? I'm asking again, you would kick out Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Barkley, Drexler, Mullins on and on?

You specifically mentioned Worthy and Dumars and their finals performances.

Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Barkley etc. were superstar players the vast majority of their careers and big game changers. Dwight doesn't hold a candle against those guys.

 

[msgkings322]

You specifically mentioned Worthy and Dumars and their finals performances.

Ewing, Stockton, Malone, Barkley etc. were superstar players the vast majority of their careers and big game changers. Dwight doesn't hold a candle against those guys.

But Dwight does hold a candle to Bing, Worthy, Dumars, others. Look it's not a science, reasonable people can disagree. Sounds like for you, if you don't lead a team to a championship you better have monster numbers for a long time (like those 4) to get in the Hall. Fair enough. Your Hall would have a lot fewer people in it, and maybe that's as it should be.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

But Dwight does hold a candle to Bing, Worthy, Dumars, others. Look it's not a science, reasonable people can disagree. Sounds like for you, if you don't lead a team to a championship you better have monster numbers for a long time (like those 4) to get in the Hall. Fair enough. Your Hall would have a lot fewer people in it, and maybe that's as it should be.

Yes, that's the way I personally prefer it. These are merely my opinions.

Even guys like Worthy and Dumars are, again in my opinion, far more relevant and HOF-worthy than Dwight is.

Those guys were key reasons the team won a title.
Guys like Malone, Stockton, Barkley and Drexler were superstars and record breakers for the majority of their careers.

 

[msgkings322]

Yes, that's the way I personally prefer it. These are merely my opinions.

Even guys like Worthy and Dumars are, again in my opinion, far more relevant and HOF-worthy than Dwight is.

Those guys were key reasons the team won a title.
Guys like Malone, Stockton, Barkley and Drexler were superstars and record breakers for the majority of their careers.

So do you think any of the following deserve it?:

Vince Carter, Chris Paul (if he doesn't win a ring), Marc Gasol (if no ring)

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

So do you think any of the following deserve it?:

Vince Carter, Chris Paul (if he doesn't win a ring), Marc Gasol (if no ring)

They're pretty much in the same bracket at Dwight IMO

 

[msgkings322]

They're pretty much in the same bracket at Dwight IMO

Agreed, they probably will all get in but they wouldn't to your Hall.

How about T-Mac? Steve Nash? Grant Hill?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Agreed, they probably will all get in but they wouldn't to your Hall.

How about T-Mac? Steve Nash? Grant Hill?

Nash absolutely. I was always dubious about TMac and now Grant Hill

 

[msgkings322]

Nash absolutely. I was always dubious about TMac and now Grant Hill

Nash was a game changer? No rings, no defense...

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Nash was a game changer? No rings, no defense...

Yes he was. You saying he wasn't HOF worthy?

 

[msgkings322]

Yes he was. You saying he wasn't HOF worthy?

I'm saying if he is Dwight probably is too.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I'm saying if he is Dwight probably is too.

Nash has two (questionable at that) MVPs