Series Thread: M's @ Red Sox

[seahawksfan234]

I was thinking earlier today when I read Dipoto's comments that I am expecting a desperate trade here real soon. The Upton signing plays the same part. Desperation. Funny how Dipoto said it is too early to know anything right now and he still has the same faith in the guys and blah X 3. Then why the Upton move?

I will ask again. Why does he still have his job? Oh ya, we are Seattle. Winning isn't the barometer.

If they were serious about improving the team, you know who is still a free agent? Michael Conforto. I can't imagine he'll get anything more than a one year deal.

Honestly Conforto makes too much sense for the Mariners to sign, so it makes complete sense that they'd sign Upton instead.

Once Haniger and Lewis return to the lineup, let's just say there's no longer a spot for Conforto. Guess what you can do? Trade the excess to continue improving the farm system or flip Conforto for someone who can improve us elsewhere.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I find it incredibly ironic that the three of the positions most commonly associated with offensive output - LF, RF & DH - are where we are struggling most. Here are the numbers:

LF: .217/.309/.303
RF: .169/.223/.296
DH: .152/.256/.324

How the hell is a position literally called "Designated Hitter" somehow the biggest hole in our lineup??? An OPS of .580 from the DH position has to be at least 100 points lower than the worst output from that position in the history of baseball.

Even more comical is that the Mariners' remedy for this situation is signing a guy who is being paid $28m NOT to play for the Angels.

If you want a desperation move that might make some sense, ship our farm system to the Nats for Juan Soto. It would never happen though because the Mariners are probably too cheap to give him the contract extension he'll demand.

 

[NWinAZ]

If they were serious about improving the team, you know who is still a free agent? Michael Conforto. I can't imagine he'll get anything more than a one year deal.

Honestly Conforto makes too much sense for the Mariners to sign, so it makes complete sense that they'd sign Upton instead.

Once Haniger and Lewis return to the lineup, let's just say there's no longer a spot for Conforto. Guess what you can do? Trade the excess to continue improving the farm system or flip Conforto for someone who can improve us elsewhere.

Conforto had shoulder surgery and is out til next season.

 

[NWinAZ]

If they were serious about improving the team, you know who is still a free agent? Michael Conforto. I can't imagine he'll get anything more than a one year deal.

Honestly Conforto makes too much sense for the Mariners to sign, so it makes complete sense that they'd sign Upton instead.

Once Haniger and Lewis return to the lineup, let's just say there's no longer a spot for Conforto. Guess what you can do? Trade the excess to continue improving the farm system or flip Conforto for someone who can improve us elsewhere.

But the point of having too much talent means you have trade chips is exactly the reason you sign guys in the offseason even if you have prospects. Too many, and you trade someone. Some fail, you bring up the prospects. Do it the Mariners way, you have Souza, Haggerty, and Ford in your lineup in May.

 

[SeattleCoug]

If they were serious about improving the team, you know who is still a free agent? Michael Conforto. I can't imagine he'll get anything more than a one year deal.

Honestly Conforto makes too much sense for the Mariners to sign, so it makes complete sense that they'd sign Upton instead.

Once Haniger and Lewis return to the lineup, let's just say there's no longer a spot for Conforto. Guess what you can do? Trade the excess to continue improving the farm system or flip Conforto for someone who can improve us elsewhere.

He's not going to be healthy this year it doesnt sound like. Shoulder surgery, might make it back for September so he's not an option regardless

 

[Destroydacre]

No one in the M's farm system would be untouchable to get Soto, IMO. It'll never happen, but I'd absolutely try to get him.

 

[SeattleCoug]

What do you even say at this point.

Anyone who looked at this roster knew they were a starter short and could see a bunch of platoon guys, defensive liabilities and lack of positional flexibility. Not mention if you are a truly a contender you shouldnt be relying so heavily on kids. A real contending team has a roster where the kids are backups pushing for playing time.

I dont think a lot of this is Servais' fault but we are reaching the point where someone needs to take a fall probably and not sure who else would send any kind of message other then Dipoto.

But yeah Im just numb at this point, I didnt think it would be this bad but at the same time I knew better

 

[wazzu31]

I agree you have to give younger guys a chance to prove themselves, but not until they make you by killing it at AAA. Cards just brought up Gorman their stud 2B AFTER he hit 15 homers this season at AAA.

But that is what Kelenic has done in every minor league stop. He dominates but then has struggled with the big club then goes down and dominates. That is why pre realizing Lewis was going to be out as long as he was I thought the Avenue for JRod was if Kelenic struggled and they call him up and send Kelenic down. I still completely have faith in him because he has shown flashes in a Mariners uniform but it is all mental. And we as fans have seen countless prospects struggle offensively in a Mariners uniform then go on to become all stars. A comp is Adam Jones where he was too good for AAA but didn’t hack it when he was with the big club (though Kelenic was given rope to hang himself and Jones got screwed over by Ichiro’s drama).

 

[wazzu31]

If they were serious about improving the team, you know who is still a free agent? Michael Conforto. I can't imagine he'll get anything more than a one year deal.

Honestly Conforto makes too much sense for the Mariners to sign, so it makes complete sense that they'd sign Upton instead.

Once Haniger and Lewis return to the lineup, let's just say there's no longer a spot for Conforto. Guess what you can do? Trade the excess to continue improving the farm system or flip Conforto for someone who can improve us elsewhere.

See I disagree. If Haniger and Lewis come back Conforto makes the most sense because he is a lefty. It is nearly a must that they have a lefty who can spell Lewis and Haniger in the field. I don’t mind Upton but he is defensively an upgrade from Moore in the OF. Ideal scenario is somehow they can make White the 1B and extend France but as the DH or move him to 3B.

 

[AceKeptic]

And that's the problem RIGHT THERE. They don't WANT any free agent that "makes sense." It doesn't fit in to whatever Master Plan the front office has in mind.

I'm still convinced that if they hadn't been forced to fire Bill Bavasi, we'd have lost more than the Sonics to Oklahoma City.

No, some players are just too good for what they must be doing. Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing futility year in, year out. All it takes is someone who actually CARES about performance, not just saying they do. Action, not words.

But no, that's just not how they do things here. Just let the players we have choke every lead and game away, that's all they ever want to see them do. Last year's close bid for a spot was nothing more than a fluke, and they probably got pissed that they actually got that far.

Mariners Baseball: Welcome to Hell.

 

[WizardHawk]

We all knew coming into the season that this roster had holes and questions. We weren't blind to it.

Still, there was hope they could at least keep things around .500 while they gave the young guys some room to grow and leave them as buyers going into the trade deadline and see what happens.

I mean it's not like that is still impossible. Part of the reason you had any hope at all is we aren't exactly in a crazy good division. They could make up ground in a hurry against some of those teams. But right now it doesn't feel like they have enough going in their favor to get back in it. Haniger was a big loss. No doubt the team would have been quite a bit higher had he not at at least that second injury. Lewis might help, but does it already feel a bit too little to really change things at this point?

It isn't just one person, or one position holding them down. Starting pitching has been up and down, relievers have blown all kinds of games, the batting overall is just horrid, and those fielding and base running errors.

It is a shorter list of guys you feel solid about than those you'd blow up and try again on. That's not a place where you feel like there is a real opportunity to overcome what is already 10 games back before June 1st.

For all of the talk about the putrid batting of this team, they are still middle of the AL in runs scored.

Where they have just simply sucked ass is runs allowed. Only KC has given up more runs than the M's in the AL.

Haniger or Lewis coming back isn't going to change that.

 

[WizardHawk]

And that's the problem RIGHT THERE. They don't WANT any free agent that "makes sense." It doesn't fit in to whatever Master Plan the front office has in mind.

I'm still convinced that if they hadn't been forced to fire Bill Bavasi, we'd have lost more than the Sonics to Oklahoma City.

No, some players are just too good for what they must be doing. Otherwise we wouldn't be seeing futility year in, year out. All it takes is someone who actually CARES about performance, not just saying they do. Action, not words.

But no, that's just not how they do things here. Just let the players we have choke every lead and game away, that's all they ever want to see them do. Last year's close bid for a spot was nothing more than a fluke, and they probably got pissed that they actually got that far.

Mariners Baseball: Welcome to Hell.

Naw, the problem is enough people still go to T-mobile to watch games for there to be the real concerted effort to improve things.

It's cheaper to hold back all that payroll and deal with lower attendance, but still have enough to keep things going than what more fans would mean with bloated payroll. It absolutely has to be a financial decision purely. Nothing else makes any sense at all.

 

[wazzu31]

We all knew coming into the season that this roster had holes and questions. We weren't blind to it.

Still, there was hope they could at least keep things around .500 while they gave the young guys some room to grow and leave them as buyers going into the trade deadline and see what happens.

I mean it's not like that is still impossible. Part of the reason you had any hope at all is we aren't exactly in a crazy good division. They could make up ground in a hurry against some of those teams. But right now it doesn't feel like they have enough going in their favor to get back in it. Haniger was a big loss. No doubt the team would have been quite a bit higher had he not at at least that second injury. Lewis might help, but does it already feel a bit too little to really change things at this point?

It isn't just one person, or one position holding them down. Starting pitching has been up and down, relievers have blown all kinds of games, the batting overall is just horrid, and those fielding and base running errors.

It is a shorter list of guys you feel solid about than those you'd blow up and try again on. That's not a place where you feel like there is a real opportunity to overcome what is already 10 games back before June 1st.

For all of the talk about the putrid batting of this team, they are still middle of the AL in runs scored.

Where they have just simply sucked ass is runs allowed. Only KC has given up more runs than the M's in the AL.

Haniger or Lewis coming back isn't going to change that.

Biggest problem IMO is Jerry for some reason disliked/hated/didn’t respect or some adjective for Kyle Seager and they are seeing it right now. Wasn’t rah rah dude but he was a consistent and productive player plus a clubhouse leader as we all saw with the reaction to their final game last season. At least in Seattle sports we have never seen a management person disrespect a player so harshly. The only other person that is close is Payton and Howard Schultz but the Glove fired the first shot, Seager never said anything negative about the Mariners until the Graveman trade then he kind of went nuclear with saying how Jerry hasn’t talked to him in however many years it was.

 

[PolarVortex]

If they were serious about improving the team, you know who is still a free agent? Michael Conforto. I can't imagine he'll get anything more than a one year deal.

Honestly Conforto makes too much sense for the Mariners to sign, so it makes complete sense that they'd sign Upton instead.

Once Haniger and Lewis return to the lineup, let's just say there's no longer a spot for Conforto. Guess what you can do? Trade the excess to continue improving the farm system or flip Conforto for someone who can improve us elsewhere.

Conforto is not a bad idea at all. But I don't think they will make an impactful outfield move until they see what Kyle Lewis does up here. He really hasn't performed that well since the first half (30 games) of the 2020 season, so it will be interesting to see if he can return to the form that got him the RoY. If Lewis does well, and Haniger and Kelenic return, then we already have five outfielders who should be starters. Factor in the DH and there is still one guy on the bench. Bring in Conforto and now we have two guys on the bench.

Of course, my scenario presents a lot of 'ifs' and wishful thinking, but that is sorta where DiPoto's mind seems to go.

What I'd really like to see is a better hitter taking Toro's at bats. And Dylan Moore's.

 

[SeattleCoug]

Biggest problem IMO is Jerry for some reason disliked/hated/didn’t respect or some adjective for Kyle Seager and they are seeing it right now. Wasn’t rah rah dude but he was a consistent and productive player plus a clubhouse leader as we all saw with the reaction to their final game last season. At least in Seattle sports we have never seen a management person disrespect a player so harshly. The only other person that is close is Payton and Howard Schultz but the Glove fired the first shot, Seager never said anything negative about the Mariners until the Graveman trade then he kind of went nuclear with saying how Jerry hasn’t talked to him in however many years it was.

Seeing how the Felix situation was handled I kinda had an idea about this already.

Regardless win games and it doesnt but they arent winning games so its fair to call anything and everything into question.

 

[Msfann]

Oh look, Dipoto signed another .200 hitter. not the same one as yesterday. Andrew Knapp

"Knapp has hit only .210/.310/.315 over 862 MLB plate appearances".

 

[megalodon30]

Oh look, Dipoto signed another .200 hitter. not the same one as yesterday. Andrew Knapp

"Knapp has hit only .210/.310/.315 over 862 MLB plate appearances".

Sacramento guy. I approve. Would prefer Rhys Hoskins but whatever.

 

[NWinAZ]

But that is what Kelenic has done in every minor league stop. He dominates but then has struggled with the big club then goes down and dominates. That is why pre realizing Lewis was going to be out as long as he was I thought the Avenue for JRod was if Kelenic struggled and they call him up and send Kelenic down. I still completely have faith in him because he has shown flashes in a Mariners uniform but it is all mental. And we as fans have seen countless prospects struggle offensively in a Mariners uniform then go on to become all stars. A comp is Adam Jones where he was too good for AAA but didn’t hack it when he was with the big club (though Kelenic was given rope to hang himself and Jones got screwed over by Ichiro’s drama).

I get your point to a degree but he only spent 125 AB's in Tacoma in 2021. That isn't time enough to slump and work your way out of it or not slump and give the big club no reason not to bring you up. Like everyone else before him, I think they screwed up his time frame. It can still be fixed, but harder now.

 

[NWinAZ]

What do you even say at this point.

Anyone who looked at this roster knew they were a starter short and could see a bunch of platoon guys, defensive liabilities and lack of positional flexibility. Not mention if you are a truly a contender you shouldnt be relying so heavily on kids. A real contending team has a roster where the kids are backups pushing for playing time.

I dont think a lot of this is Servais' fault but we are reaching the point where someone needs to take a fall probably and not sure who else would send any kind of message other then Dipoto.

But yeah Im just numb at this point, I didnt think it would be this bad but at the same time I knew better

Ya but we have players that are flexible defensively...

I will take one guy that can really hit but only plays one position over ten guys that play 3+ positions but can't hit squat.

 

[NWinAZ]

I know this was already mentioned, but worth posting again because only desperate teams make moves in May for guys like this. This goes back to the old saying, "When you fail to plan, you plan to fail". The Mariners creed at this point in life for the umpteenth year. I guess we can look at the bright side, they will probably trade him to the Giants in a month for a little spending cash.

Mariners signed C Andrew Knapp to a minor league contract.​

The 30-year-old backstop was designated for assignment earlier in the week after slashing .129/.229/.161 in 35 plate appearances with the Pirates. He elected free agency on Saturday and it didn't take him long to find a new opportunity. He'll report to Triple-A Tacoma where he'll function as extra catching depth for the Mariners.