More damning info about Kelly.

[I miss Dawkins]

found it: The Eagles holiday party contributed to Chip Kelly getting fired

Also Brandon Boykin weighed in:
“You can't trick players or pretend to be someone you're not if the results aren't there,”Boykin told the Pittsburgh Tribune. “The guys who were man enough to make a difference and do something about it were axed or (Kelly) acted like there were sour grapes or whatever.”

Boykin didn’t hold any punches when asked to compare Kelly to Mike Tomlin, his current head coach.

“Tomlin treats players like professionals and grown men,” Boykin said, adding that Kelly didn’t respect many of his players. “He acted like he was better and smarter than people at his level, and that's where the respect was lost.”

"He can't relate, and that makes him uncomfortable. He likes total control of everything, and he don’t like to be uncomfortable,” Boykin said in a text message. “Players excel when you let them naturally be who they are, and in my experience that hasn’t been important to him, but you guys have heard this before me.”

Boykin later clarified that he didn’t think Kelly was a racist, but that Kelly had a problem relating to and interacting with a number of players.

Boykin rips Chip Kelly for

Altho a full Chip supporter when he got here.. I repeatedly said... this was my #1 concern... he treated players like college kids..... not professional grown men. And that he got rid of players that did not say 'how high' when asked to jump. He created holes in this organization faster than he could fill them. His treatment and use of Murrey could not be more obvious. His decimation of the OL lead to the results of this season more than anything else. You don't have to be a fan of a player or even like the guy - but if he performs on the field and makes you a better team - you man up and use them to win! I still say getting rid of DJax was one of the biggest mistakes that took us years to get over. I honestly don't mind the Maclin loss at all - I still think he is not worthy of being a #1. McCoy - I would not have gotten rid of - but I'd have brought in competition to try and out perform him (McCoy was getting to the point that he couldn't keep up with his ego and mouth). But you don't get rid of players without having better replacements already in hand. But his handling of the OL (getting rid of the guards AND not drafting OL) was the final straw imho of the skillset of this organization being undermined.

It's time for Chip to go. It would have been tough to watch another season of leading the NFL in 3 and outs.

Unfort, we still need a quarterback now as well.

Will we ever stop rebuilding??

 

[I miss Dawkins]

Sorry don't buy it. Lurie decided to go all in on Kelly and only four months ago is out there talking about a what a fine caring coach he is..and you say he was giving him a pep talk? I find it much more likely he is lieing on December 30 than on September 11.

so your admitting he is lying.. but chosing to believe the lie that supports your position best.. instead of any substance like... the LAST thing he said.. which was followed by ACTIONS (ie, firing him) or the supporting cast of players now saying all of this about Chip that contradiction what you want to believe about him (like the open door, great team builder and such). Lets ignore the flood of evidence, and the players we saw let go - lets just buy the soundbite that needed no action and has no support, because it supports your previous views??? Do you EVER admit you were wrong???

 

[DutchBird]

I didn't bring up the Christmas Party. It was brought up by others as the "Damning evidence" against Chip Kelly. I agree it is irrelevant or should be. Others seem to think that proper attendance at Christmas Parties is necessary to be a good football coach and show those "Leadership" and "Social Skills" that are so necessary. {I bet Belicheck is a blast at social functions.)

Not sure where I heared it, but someone (well informed journalist) argued that outside of the media, BB is actually quite a sociable person. Nobody has described Chip Kelly as a sociable person.

You also completely miss the point. The Christmas party is NOT irrelevant in this case. Had it been the only thing, then you would have had a point. It is indicative, however, of what seems to be a primary problem for Chip Kelly - his complete absence of people and group management skills, at least those needed to work in an environment like the NFL.

Kelce was damning as well - he pointed at himself that he did little to create a team spirit, a group feeling, but he (and others) also clearly pointed out that the way Chip Kelly had organised things this was almost impossible.

Kelly seems to have implemented to perfection a management style preferred by corporate and managerial dictators that are perfect for them, but are disastrous for the atmosphere on the workfloor as a whole, disastrous for team spirit, and counterproductive; I have had the unfortunate experience of working in such environments (in one place where such system was implemented when I was there) - quality of work plummeted, sick-rate sky-rocketed, friction increased, nobody was willing to put in extra effort, and if people saw an opportunity to get away, they actually did. Hell, in one place it ended up in at least one assault upon a manager and another where there was no assault (as she was a woman), but slashed tires, a number of near strikes, and a whole lot of friction.

I just can't believe how quickly people around here seem to be to buy into the company line here? I have been accused for years of secretly being Dave Spadaro for my support of the Eagles Organization, and yet I am hugely skeptical of what I am hearing here. As Peter King stated, can that much really have changed over the last few months? Did Chip suddenly install a Dungeon after being described in September as a players coach by the team's owner?

Well, I can only speak for myself, but I am far from buying into the company line - hell, I am extremely skeptical of Roseman and the functioning of the Eagles organization.

But it was very evident that something was seriously wrong; that Kelly f'ed up his management of the O-line, probably also the WR's. It is also clear that there was something fundamentally wrong with the way he ran his offense, and had been for two seasons, with no improvement (other than the QB) - things only got worse.

With what has been coming out, from (ex-)players, what could be observed on the field (including Sunday) weighs much more than whatever Lurie and Roseman are spouting.

Perhaps Lurie did the right thing? Who knows. I view this as a step back for the organization either way. Either Lurie screwed up now or screwed up a couple of years ago and just cut his losses. Not good either way.

I still think that it will be telling if Kelly has job offers or not.

So far reports are he has none: San Francisco is him reaching out, and so far Tennessee does not seem to want him.

There are three possible outcomes here.

(1) Kelly is Jon Gruden. A good football coach but a horrible person and will be essentially blackballed from the league. or
(2) Kelly is Bill Belicheck. A good coach, that given a second chance could prove to be a great coach with the right support and players. or
(3) Kelly is Steve Spurrier. Simply better in College than the pros.

We can all speculate, but really won't know until we see what happens next.

How it works out, we will see. But Kelly has to look really hard at himself if he does not want to end up as 1 or 3.

 

[deerpathdave]

so your admitting he is lying.. but chosing to believe the lie that supports your position best.. instead of any substance like... the LAST thing he said.. which was followed by ACTIONS (ie, firing him) or the supporting cast of players now saying all of this about Chip that contradiction what you want to believe about him (like the open door, great team builder and such). Lets ignore the flood of evidence, and the players we saw let go - lets just buy the soundbite that needed no action and has no support, because it supports your previous views??? Do you EVER admit you were wrong???

Let's examine these "Things of substance".

the LAST thing he said.. Why would the last thing he said be more likely to be true than what he said earlier? Did you watch that presser? Lurie was clearly being evasive.

which was followed by ACTIONS (ie, firing him) Why does the firing make him suddenly honest? His previous statement was preceded by a decision to give him full control.

or the supporting cast of players now saying all of this about Chip that contradiction what you want to believe about him (like the open door, great team builder and such). How many players have really commented? 2? 3? I am not convinced that Lane Johnson speaks for the team. Bradford seemed very supportive of Kelly and Jenkins seemed somewhat ambivalent...both slamming Lane Johnson and not fully supporting Kelly. Can't imagine it would be in a current players best interest to be endorsing Kelly about now.

and the players we saw let go. Let's not forget that virtually every player let go other than McCoy and DJAX has been whoafully unsuccessful. Mathis, Foles, Fletcher, Williams, Herremans, Cole.

And BTW, where did I say that I was convinced Kelly was right here? You can find several lengthy posts where I rip the guy. I have been consistently saying that I am just not sold on the company line here and more than anything I feel that with a little more patience this could have worked out well...as opposed to the firing which is clearly a setback.

 

[PhillyGreen]

DPD from what I am reading you have become quite the Kelly apologist and took this firing personal. That may not be the case but the tone of your posts sure suggest that. This is from a person who felt up until the Redskins game that Kelly deserved one more year to get it right.

It was the Redskins game that changed my entire outlook at Kelly. I have never seen a team with so much on the line completely shit the bed like the Eagles did. They were dominated on just about every facet and at this level you just cannot have teams perform like that. I could see if it was an anomaly and just a one time fluke thing but this happened just about every week this season.

It is my personal opinion that CK will never be successful at the NFL level unless he makes changes like Coughlin did in NY. Instead Chip's ego is so big he can't admit is wrong and is actually contacting teams himself.

 

[eaglesnut]

Isn't that more your owners fault?

Not at all. Reid was here long enough. But the point is that Reid left a pretty good foundation and talented offensive players that helped mask Chip's deficiencies for a couple years.

 

[eaglesnut]

I didn't bring up the Christmas Party. It was brought up by others as the "Damning evidence" against Chip Kelly. I agree it is irrelevant or should be. Others seem to think that proper attendance at Christmas Parties is necessary to be a good football coach and show those "Leadership" and "Social Skills" that are so necessary. {I bet Belicheck is a blast at social functions.)

I just can't believe how quickly people around here seem to be to buy into the company line here? I have been accused for years of secretly being Dave Spadaro for my support of the Eagles Organization, and yet I am hugely skeptical of what I am hearing here. As Peter King stated, can that much really have changed over the last few months? Did Chip suddenly install a Dungeon after being described in September as a players coach by the team's owner?

Perhaps Lurie did the right thing? Who knows. I view this as a step back for the organization either way. Either Lurie screwed up now or screwed up a couple of years ago and just cut his losses. Not good either way.

I still think that it will be telling if Kelly has job offers or not. There are three possible outcomes here.

(1) Kelly is Jon Gruden. A good football coach but a horrible person and will be essentially blackballed from the league. or
(2) Kelly is Bill Belicheck. A good coach, that given a second chance could prove to be a great coach with the right support and players. or
(3) Kelly is Steve Spurrier. Simply better in College than the pros.

We can all speculate, but really won't know until we see what happens next.

One more time since you missed it on Sunday and apparently just missed it as it was explained to you...

"Peters was a beast on Sunday. Demarco ran for a 54 yard touchdown with the QB under center. Chip's WR prize, Jordan Mathews, failed to reach 1000 yards on the season because of brutal, embarrassing, "children could have caught it" kind of drops. Sam Bradford audibled successfully multiple times and in the redzone as well."

That's damning.

BTW, way to disparage Jon Gruden's character for no reason.

 

[Birds4life81]

One more time since you missed it on Sunday and apparently just missed it as it was explained to you...

"Peters was a beast on Sunday. Demarco ran for a 54 yard touchdown with the QB under center. Chip's WR prize, Jordan Mathews, failed to reach 1000 yards on the season because of brutal, embarrassing, "children could have caught it" kind of drops. Sam Bradford audibled successfully multiple times and in the redzone as well."

That's damning.

BTW, way to disparage Jon Gruden's character for no reason.

It's hard to evaluate your offense when it faces the 32nd ranked NYG defense who give up a league high 420 yards per game and 3rd worst PPG….but I did chuckle to myself when I saw us line up under center and watch Murray take off lol.

 

[northeastphillyguy]

If Kelly was not the GM or acting GM he would have been forced to treat the players better. Since he had control
he would punish everyone that he wanted to at the expense of the team and its moral as well. People point out his two 10 win seasons, but that was with players he could not hire or fire. Kelly let power go to his egotistical head!

 

[ctc]

Not sure where I heared it, but someone (well informed journalist) argued that outside of the media, BB is actually quite a sociable person. Nobody has described Chip Kelly as a sociable person.

You also completely miss the point. The Christmas party is NOT irrelevant in this case. Had it been the only thing, then you would have had a point. It is indicative, however, of what seems to be a primary problem for Chip Kelly - his complete absence of people and group management skills, at least those needed to work in an environment like the NFL.

Kelce was damning as well - he pointed at himself that he did little to create a team spirit, a group feeling, but he (and others) also clearly pointed out that the way Chip Kelly had organised things this was almost impossible.

Kelly seems to have implemented to perfection a management style preferred by corporate and managerial dictators that are perfect for them, but are disastrous for the atmosphere on the workfloor as a whole, disastrous for team spirit, and counterproductive; I have had the unfortunate experience of working in such environments (in one place where such system was implemented when I was there) - quality of work plummeted, sick-rate sky-rocketed, friction increased, nobody was willing to put in extra effort, and if people saw an opportunity to get away, they actually did. Hell, in one place it ended up in at least one assault upon a manager and another where there was no assault (as she was a woman), but slashed tires, a number of near strikes, and a whole lot of friction.



Well, I can only speak for myself, but I am far from buying into the company line - hell, I am extremely skeptical of Roseman and the functioning of the Eagles organization.

But it was very evident that something was seriously wrong; that Kelly f'ed up his management of the O-line, probably also the WR's. It is also clear that there was something fundamentally wrong with the way he ran his offense, and had been for two seasons, with no improvement (other than the QB) - things only got worse.

With what has been coming out, from (ex-)players, what could be observed on the field (including Sunday) weighs much more than whatever Lurie and Roseman are spouting.



So far reports are he has none: San Francisco is him reaching out, and so far Tennessee does not seem to want him.



How it works out, we will see. But Kelly has to look really hard at himself if he does not want to end up as 1 or 3.

Ya know you and I don't agree on much but for an ESL guy you've gotten quite proficient over the years and props are in order. Well done.

 

[L.Freamon]

Give me an effing break. You guys really support getting rid of a good to maybe great coach because he pissed off a few people at a Christmas Party? I really don't give a ff if no one liked the guy. He was there to coach football.

Can't be a dick to everyone in the organization if you're not coaching winning football. Nobody anywhere is putting up with that shit for long.

 

[L.Freamon]

About money? You are kidding I hope. It cost the Eagles 13 million dollars to fire Kelly! If you are right then Howie would have to cut the payroll next year by 10 million in order to save the eagles 3.5 million dollars.
You are saying that Lurie did this whole thing in order to lower the payroll. You have twisted logic and you are in denial about Kelly!

new to the dpd logic i see.

buckle up!

 

[deerpathdave]

It's hard to evaluate your offense when it faces the 32nd ranked NYG defense who give up a league high 420 yards per game and 3rd worst PPG….but I did chuckle to myself when I saw us line up under center and watch Murray take off lol.

Nice moment...followed by 11 carries for 15 yards the rest of the game.

 

[deerpathdave]

Can't be a dick to everyone in the organization if you're not coaching winning football. Nobody anywhere is putting up with that shit for long.

So true, but way to extrapolate several random quotes (most from disgruntled ex-players) into "Everyone in the organization". To be fair obviously he pissed off Roseman and Lurie and that is all really needed to do to get fired. And Lurie didn't put up with his shit...I get that...but perhaps to the detriment of the organization.

I really can't see how people are giving a Lurie a pass here? One way or another this is a sad day for the Eagles organization. They are much worse off than they were before and Lurie is clearly responsible for the mess...either because of the decision he made last week or the decision he made last year.

 

[L.Freamon]

I'm still impressed he turned your 4 win team into a playoff team in one year. Lions fans would KILL for back to back 10 win seasons. Like great college players, I'm sure CK would evolve and improve in time. The level of expectations in Philly are obviously a lot higher than in other cities.

that's the first right thing you've said in this thread. Lions fans i guess are used to coaches coming in, poisoning the water supply, dousing everything in gasoline with a lit match in their mouth and then dropping a nuclear bomb for good measure and then pissing on the ashes...before getting fired. We ain't bout that life (except for the Suxers. We're being held hostage there)

 

[L.Freamon]

I didn't bring up the Christmas Party. It was brought up by others as the "Damning evidence" against Chip Kelly. I agree it is irrelevant or should be. Others seem to think that proper attendance at Christmas Parties is necessary to be a good football coach and show those "Leadership" and "Social Skills" that are so necessary. {I bet Belicheck is a blast at social functions.)

Belichick is known to be engaging and even funny behind closed doors. He's a dick to the media. More importantly he wins games. Big games. Rather frequently.

 

[L.Freamon]

(1) Kelly is Jon Gruden. A good football coach but a horrible person and will be essentially blackballed from the league.

Gruden isn't blackballed you dope! He makes at least twice as much in the booth (he's the 2nd highest employee at ESPN iirc) as he would coaching--and he runs his FCA in his free time. He won't be back until coaching money catches up with TV money and/or he just has a major hankering to coach, money be damned. Those are facts. I'm sure you will duely ignore them.

 

[L.Freamon]

So true, but way to extrapolate several random quotes (most from disgruntled ex-players) into "Everyone in the organization". To be fair obviously he pissed off Roseman and Lurie and that is all really needed to do to get fired. And Lurie didn't put up with his shit...I get that...but perhaps to the detriment of the organization.

I would gladly bet $10,000,000,000 his poor treatment extended beyond Lurie and Roseman to the secretaries, food service people, trainers, bus drivers, towel boys, grounds crew. The sentiment around NovaCare...not just the lockerroom and not simply the owners box--is that EVERYONE HATED HIM. Andy was the complete opposite with everyone. Ray Rhoades too.

I really can't see how people are giving a Lurie a pass here? One way or another this is a sad day for the Eagles organization. They are much worse off than they were before and Lurie is clearly responsible for the mess...either because of the decision he made last week or the decision he made last year.

Lurie doesn't get a complete pass from me. I honestly would have been satisfied and had more respect for Lurie had he told Chip to pack up 12/31/14 when Chip pulled his power play. Instead Lurie allowed himself to be bamboozled by that charlatan. I said as much in the months following Chip's takeover.

Last Tuesday was not a sad day at all. It was the best move to get us back on track to being in contention again. We were better with Chip gone 12/31/15 than we were 12/31/14 when Chip stole the team.

 

[eaglesnut]

I really can't see how people are giving a Lurie a pass here? One way or another this is a sad day for the Eagles organization. They are much worse off than they were before and Lurie is clearly responsible for the mess...either because of the decision he made last week or the decision he made last year.

If Chip demands control and then sucks with all the control Lurie may have made a good decision by not prolonging the process. Chip might not get it. He obviously did a lot that did not work.

 

[eaglesnut]

Lurie doesn't get a complete pass from me. I honestly would have been satisfied and had more respect for Lurie had he told Chip to pack up 12/31/14 when Chip pulled his power play. Instead Lurie allowed himself to be bamboozled by that charlatan. I said as much in the months following Chip's takeover.

Last Tuesday was not a sad day at all. It was the best move to get us back on track to being in contention again. We were better with Chip gone 12/31/15 than we were 12/31/14 when Chip stole the team.

Ultimately we don't know if Lurie was actually just bamboozled by a charlatan... A Howie Roseman that wanted to be more in charge than Chip wanted him to be, fired Chip's personnel guy, and whispered in Lurie's ear all year. Just saying.