Monday Afternoon thoughts.

[ehb5]

i dont need to fib about anything . do i have to go back through another quote a thon to make my point yet again ? i certainly can if needs be

and the stat that is most telling is the QBR a rating of all things a qb does

Do it if you want but it didnt prove anything for you last time and I already found you the quote. I mean feel free but its a waste of time IMO.

Quality decision there to stake your claim on the stat that says Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Tom Brady. You're definitely not picking and choosing details to make your argument. Noooo.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

I'm honestly not a fan of QBR myself

QBR: ESPN's Deeply Flawed Made-For-TV Stat

 

[skinsdad62]

I kind of agree (at least on McCown), but its funny to me that they are viewed so differently. In terms of what they are right now its possible Cousins is the worst of the 3.

your words not mine

 

[Sportster 72]

I'm honestly not a fan of QBR myself

QBR: ESPN's Deeply Flawed Made-For-TV Stat

IMO that article is how I feel. QBR is a trumped up useless stat invented by ESPN and trumpeted as the accurate assessment for QBs. I couldn't disagree more, it's a piece of crap. QB rating while not perfect by any means gives a better assessment than QBR.

 

[ehb5]

I kind of agree (at least on McCown), but its funny to me that they are viewed so differently. In terms of what they are right now its possible Cousins is the worst of the 3.

your words not mine

Do you understand what "possible" means?

And even if you want to take that as me saying he's better, the stats back that up anyways so I dont care.

Again, Id like to point out you're only defense of Cousins being better than McCown so far is to use the same stat that says Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers and that Ryan Mallet is better than Cam Newton. Im just going to assume from now on that you also believe all of that.

 

[Sharkinva]

OK.. this thread has progressed about as well as Hillary Clinton in a Veterans Day parade.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

First I understand you, and ehb5, aren't advocating dumping Gruden. And I also understand and agree that we have done a poor job of finding suitable candidates as well as agree that suitable candidates probably do exist. Where we diverge is our ability to land these suitable candidates. I maintain that our history of going through coaches will severely hamper our ability to land these suitable candidates. The good ones will have options and I have to believe we are their last choice. Let's face it, we only landed Gruden because he had no other offers and we still had to give him a 5 year guaranteed deal, which is highly unusual for an unproven HC. Consequently, if we were to dump Gruden after 2 years, we only lend credence to the wide spread belief that this has historically been the worst job for a coach in the league over the last 15 years. Primarily because we have had an impatient owner who never gives a HC a chance to implement his plan, without meddling from the FO, and then gets dumped when failure happens in the first few years.

Think if you were looking to switch jobs. Would you take a job with a company that is known to be headed by a micromanager who fires employees before they can prove their capabilities? Unless you were desperate, probably not.

So - if a certain candidate had a choice between the Titans, Lions and Redskins job he would automatically put the Redskins last on the list? I don't think so. Other teams looking for new coaches typically also have characteristics that make them less than desirable.

When you state that "the good ones will have options" are you implying that Gruden was/is not one of the good ones? If so then why should he be retained? You can't have it both ways. Again - with SM at the helm along with the fanbase & the willingness of the team to spend $$ this will in no way be viewed as one of the worst coaching jobs in the NFL. Stop believing the crap that is spewed by the media.

IMO - the failures of this team are based on a lot more than the frequent coaching turnover. Specifically - the poor problems from the recent past can be tied to:

1. Trading way too many high picks for RG3
2. Huge contracts for high profile, aging FAs
3. Hiring Shanahan in a head coach - pseudo GM role
4. Having other unqualified people serve as GM

If they are sincere in using SM as advertised issues similar to this will diminish or disappear. More than likely SM, Snyder & co will retain Gruden barring an atrocious remainder of the season. However - even if he is replaced I still believe that they will be successful and yes find a decent coaching replacement since these other factors should not be in play. The changing culture is in the beginning stages & should ultimately prove to turn this team around. If not then a lot of us probably won't live long enough to see this franchise achieve glory again.

 

[skinsdad62]

Do you understand what "possible" means?

And even if you want to take that as me saying he's better, the stats back that up anyways so I dont care.

Again, Id like to point out you're only defense of Cousins being better than McCown so far is to use the same stat that says Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers and that Ryan Mallet is better than Cam Newton. Im just going to assume from now on that you also believe all of that.

Possible is code for" i really believe it but i dont have the sack to say it ". your writing actions tell a different story

have the courage to stand up for your belief's and give up names when you are asked instead of hiding behind "possibles " and mystery coaches and players we can get

you have been asked numerous times to give up names and all you do is dodge , deflect and deny or in essence cop out

 

[SoCalWizFan]

OK.. this thread has progressed about as well as Hillary Clinton in a Veterans Day parade.

Nah - it's all good. People need to stop taking some of this so personally. It is all just our opinions & nobody is really right or wrong. Again - please understand that we are dealing with frustrated fans - lets all just chill out a bit.

 

[j_y19]

So - if a certain candidate had a choice between the Titans, Lions and Redskins job he would automatically put the Redskins last on the list? I don't think so. Other teams looking for new coaches typically also have characteristics that make them less than desirable.

When you state that "the good ones will have options" are you implying that Gruden was/is not one of the good ones? If so then why should he be retained? You can't have it both ways. Again - with SM at the helm along with the fanbase & the willingness of the team to spend $$ this will in no way be viewed as one of the worst coaching jobs in the NFL. Stop believing the crap that is spewed by the media.

IMO - the failures of this team are based on a lot more than the frequent coaching turnover. Specifically - the poor problems from the recent past can be tied to:

1. Trading way too many high picks for RG3
2. Huge contracts for high profile, aging FAs
3. Hiring Shanahan in a head coach - pseudo GM role
4. Having other unqualified people serve as GM

If they are sincere in using SM as advertised issues similar to this will diminish or disappear. More than likely SM, Snyder & co will retain Gruden barring an atrocious remainder of the season. However - even if he is replaced I still believe that they will be successful and yes find a decent coaching replacement since these other factors should not be in play. The changing culture is in the beginning stages & should ultimately prove to turn this team around. If not then a lot of us probably won't live long enough to see this franchise achieve glory again.

Yes, I do believe that the Titans and possibly even the lions would be viewed as better career moves only in that both of those franchises have historically given new coaches time to succeed or fail. Do I think Gruden is not one of the good ones? I have my concerns as I have stated, but I also believe he needs an unimpeded chance to implement his plan with his people before passing final judgement. The fact is he had no other offers and we had to give him a 5 year deal to come here which is very unusual for first time HCs. Of course there are a myriad of reasons why we have been the second worst team in the league over the last decade, some of which you listed and I agree with. But name one franchise that has been a sucess while reloading on coaches as much as we have. There isn't one. Clearly continuity and a stable environment is very important to winning. Maybe the most important. Remember, Zorn was a terrible hire, and was never intended to be the HC, but we couldn't find anyone else to take the job. That is proof that right there of what we are talking about.

I also have the same hopes about SM that you do. But I'm not convinced yet that even he will have complete autonomy in his job. I'll need a to actually see it before I believe it. Just don't trust Danny to keep his hand out of the cookie jar.

 

[Sharkinva]

IM going to simply point out what appears to be a common misconception around here.

We were Grudens FIRST offer, and he was in fact one of the top names on the coaching short list going into 2014. It was assumed by most that he would get a HC offer some where. Which likely played a role in us giving him a 5 year deal. Now I consider 2014 a complete waste as far as setting up his system and getting the players he would want/need to run his system. I also consider off season 2015 a partial waste, for similar reasons. I think Gruden should get next year at minimum.. and actually I think its not really fair to judge him until we see what he has fielded for the 2016 season. He was asked to field a Super Bowl contender with one hand tied behind his back to a degree.

 

[ehb5]

Possible is code for" i really believe it but i dont have the sack to say it ". your writing actions tell a different story

have the courage to stand up for your belief's and give up names when you are asked instead of hiding behind "possibles " and mystery coaches and players we can get

you have been asked numerous times to give up names and all you do is dodge , deflect and deny or in essence cop out

Possible means I glanced at the stats and McCown was right there with Cousins. I havent watched McCown play this year much. But the stats largely say hes been better so I really dont understand why this is an issue. Is it crazy if I think McCown is better?

Ive explained the not giving names for you. And I did mention one name regardless. You want more? Here

Greg Olson
Doug Pederson
Frank Reich
Tom Clements
Harold Goodwin
Mike Shula
Sean McDermott
Dennis Thurman
Matt Patricia
Kacy Rodgers
Keith Butler
Rich Bissaccia

Im sure there are more possibilities in college and non OC/DC positions but thats a pretty big list so when Im done interviewing them and getting bacground info Ill narrow it down for you.

 

[ehb5]

Nah - it's all good. People need to stop taking some of this so personally. It is all just our opinions & nobody is really right or wrong. Again - please understand that we are dealing with frustrated fans - lets all just chill out a bit.

Im probably as guilty of this as anybody but I do agree. I think its just easy to get frustrated especially when people (whether deliberate or not) put words in your mouth and get upset at you for things you never said. But overall I think we're civil enough. I dont have any problems with anybody on these forums. Like you said, we're all just frustrated Skins fans.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Yes, I do believe that the Titans and possibly even the lions would be viewed as better career moves only in that both of those franchises have historically given new coaches time to succeed or fail. Do I think Gruden is not one of the good ones? I have my concerns as I have stated, but I also believe he needs an unimpeded chance to implement his plan with his people before passing final judgement. The fact is he had no other offers and we had to give him a 5 year deal to come here which is very unusual for first time HCs. Of course there are a myriad of reasons why we have been the second worst team in the league over the last decade, some of which you listed and I agree with. But name one franchise that has been a sucess while reloading on coaches as much as we have. There isn't one. Clearly continuity and a stable environment is very important to winning. Maybe the most important. Remember, Zorn was a terrible hire, and was never intended to be the HC, but we couldn't find anyone else to take the job. That is proof that right there of what we are talking about.

I also have the same hopes about SM that you do. But I'm not convinced yet that even he will have complete autonomy in his job. I'll need a to actually see it before I believe it. Just don't trust Danny to keep his hand out of the cookie jar.

Really? The same Titans who are now on their 3rd coach in 4 years? They had continuity with Fisher but certainly not after that time. The Lions just cleaned house & are not the same team with the widow running the show & won't be since she won't be around long. These teams have very similar concerns with continuity as do the Redskins. It is naive to believe that the Redskins are the only team with these concerns & this is especially true with teams looking for a new coach. Again - probably a moot pt since Gruden will likely be retained.

We have to believe that SM will be given the freedom to do his job (& have seen absolutely nothing to indicate otherwise & trust me the media would exploit that condition if it existed). We better believe that - if Snyder tries to run things again then I believe that many of us will bail on this franchise.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

IM going to simply point out what appears to be a common misconception around here.

We were Grudens FIRST offer, and he was in fact one of the top names on the coaching short list going into 2014. It was assumed by most that he would get a HC offer some where. Which likely played a role in us giving him a 5 year deal. Now I consider 2014 a complete waste as far as setting up his system and getting the players he would want/need to run his system. I also consider off season 2015 a partial waste, for similar reasons. I think Gruden should get next year at minimum.. and actually I think its not really fair to judge him until we see what he has fielded for the 2016 season. He was asked to field a Super Bowl contender with one hand tied behind his back to a degree.

Great - bring him back next season unless they don't win another game this season. Now if say next season they go 6-10 or worse then no way in hell should he be brought back for another year. Sooner or later the coach has to be accountable for something.

 

[skinsdad62]

well there we go ebb now we are talking now we can work off that list and see who would come here

 

[Sharkinva]

Great - bring him back next season unless they don't win another game this season. Now if say next season they go 6-10 or worse then no way in hell should he be brought back for another year. Sooner or later the coach has to be accountable for something.

Totally agree. But there were fans both here and in the general public calling for Gruden to be fired LAST year. The noise for that got even louder in August of this year after he named his starting QB. Yes I have seen fans AT the game calling for Grudens head and hoping Cousins fails. I can only think of one remotely logical reason for these sorts of statements. But bottom line is, even if we dont win another game, I think firing Gruden would do more harm than good at this point.

 

[j_y19]

Really? The same Titans who are now on their 3rd coach in 4 years? They had continuity with Fisher but certainly not after that time. The Lions just cleaned house & are not the same team with the widow running the show & won't be since she won't be around long. These teams have very similar concerns with continuity as do the Redskins. It is naive to believe that the Redskins are the only team with these concerns & this is especially true with teams looking for a new coach. Again - probably a moot pt since Gruden will likely be retained.

We have to believe that SM will be given the freedom to do his job (& have seen absolutely nothing to indicate otherwise & trust me the media would exploit that condition if it existed). We better believe that - if Snyder tries to run things again then I believe that many of us will bail on this franchise.

Wisenhut is the only one who coached less that 3 years. Muncheck had 3 full seasons before he got the axe, the same. Time that some of us say all HC deserve. Now they have an interim HC. He may or may not be made permanent. Much more stable environment than the skins job.

 

[skinsdad62]

socal i am as guilty as anyone as well . i have been a real hard ass on ebb . i was trying to draw out what his plan was . ebb is a great poster and i like how he fires back . i have no issue with him

 

[ehb5]

socal i am as guilty as anyone as well . i have been a real hard ass on ebb . i was trying to draw out what his plan was . ebb is a great poster and i like how he fires back . i have no issue with him

Same to you. Idk if people remember me from the espn days but I was around back then and ive always thought you were one of my favorite posters. We just haven't been agreeing much lately lol. In the end the point of the forums is really debating anyways and we're all in this shit together.