MNF...

[vancelot23]

WTF was KC doing. Ridiculous clock management there.

 

[cincygrad]

What do you think Rivers would be doing if he played in the AFC-N or the NFC-N? He's had the benefit of playing his entire career in a weak division and in great weather. He puts up great numbers, but doesn't win when it counts. He's played on teams with the leagues best defense and can't even make the playoffs. He's had all-pros surrounding him at every key position. What am I missing?

 

[Tubbs1518]

Peyton Manning was being talked about as a HOFer before he won the big game. Rivers also led his team to the #1 offense last year. You can't blame them not making the playoffs on him. He played hurt and led his team to the AFCCG. Lots of QBs have great players around them. Rivers has been a top 5 QB for years.

 

[flamingrey]

After this post I'm going to avoid this debate like the plague, but Peyton has always been mentioned before winning the big one because of everything he does and is capable of doing that doesn't necessarily show up on the stat sheet. He also hasn't been littered with great-to-HOF players/coaches around him like many other top QBs.

 

[futballiscool]

What do you think Rivers would be doing if he played in the AFC-N or the NFC-N? He's had the benefit of playing his entire career in a weak division and in great weather. He puts up great numbers, but doesn't win when it counts. He's played on teams with the leagues best defense and can't even make the playoffs. He's had all-pros surrounding him at every key position. What am I missing?

last yr he put-up elite numbers with Vincent Jackson, Gates, Malcom Floyd all missing signifigant time. I don't think there's anyway to argue he's a product of surrounding talent. and as great as Drew Brees is as a QB, they got better when Rivers replaced him. I'm not saying he's better than Brees (although I think he's close), but I'm not sure he inherited a team on the verge of a dynasty that he's been holding back

I wouln'd put him the Rodgers/Brady tier until he wins a SB, but he's still a top 5 or 6 QB in my book

 

[cincygrad]

Peyton Manning was being talked about as a HOFer before he won the big game. Rivers also led his team to the #1 offense last year. You can't blame them not making the playoffs on him. He played hurt and led his team to the AFCCG. Lots of QBs have great players around them. Rivers has been a top 5 QB for years.

Lots of guys play hurt. That means very little to me. My point remains - Rivers wins a lot of games against a lot of bad teams. He also has the luxury of playing in flawless conditions for 3/4 of his games. He's played with a future HOF running back and a one-of-a-kind tight end. His head coach has made an all-pro out of Brad Johnson. In sum -- He's a great bet if you like to play fantasy football. He hasn't won anything and I don't expect him to do so anytime soon. Go Phil!

 

[flamingrey]

Baldwin has to come up with that.

 

[flamingrey]

Lots of guys play hurt. That means very little to me. My point remains - Rivers wins a lot of games against a lot of bad teams. He also has the luxury of playing in flawless conditions for 3/4 of his games. He's played with a future HOF running back and a one-of-a-kind tight end. His head coach has made an all-pro out of Brad Johnson. In sum -- He's a great bet if you like to play fantasy football. He hasn't won anything and I don't expect him to do so anytime soon. Go Phil!

The only critique I can give your post is if you're going to put that much stock in the coach, then it's only fair to mention his coach is also a big-time choker in the big games.

 

[vancelot23]

KC trying to keep SD in it.

 

[futballiscool]

Lots of guys play hurt. That means very little to me. My point remains - Rivers wins a lot of games against a lot of bad teams. He also has the luxury of playing in flawless conditions for 3/4 of his games. He's played with a future HOF running back and a one-of-a-kind tight end. His head coach has made an all-pro out of Brad Johnson. In sum -- He's a great bet if you like to play fantasy football. He hasn't won anything and I don't expect him to do so anytime soon. Go Phil!

His offense's score more points per game than any QB in NFL history. That's good for fantasy, but it helps in real football too.

only a handful of active starting QBs in the NFL have won a SB in their career. I'm not sure why that's held against Rivers

 

[cincygrad]

last yr he put-up elite numbers with Vincent Jackson, Gates, Malcom Floyd all missing signifigant time. I don't think there's anyway to argue he's a product of surrounding talent. and as great as Drew Brees is as a QB, they got better when Rivers replaced him. I'm not saying he's better than Brees (although I think he's close), but I'm not sure he inherited a team on the verge of a dynasty that he's been holding back

I wouln'd put him the Rodgers/Brady tier until he wins a SB, but he's still a top 5 or 6 QB in my book

While he was putting up 'elite' numbers in 2010, he led a team that started 2-5. In 4 out of 5 of those losses they scored less than 21 points. Then with the season on the line, he loses a home game to Oakland where he puts up 13 and then lays an egg against the previously comatose Bengals. Let's put him in the HOF!!!

 

[vancelot23]

To be fair, I think a few of those games still would have been wins if not for crappy ST.

 

[cincygrad]

His offense's score more points per game than any QB in NFL history. That's good for fantasy, but it helps in real football too.

only a handful of active starting QBs in the NFL have won a SB in their career. I'm not sure why that's held against Rivers

I think his stats are inflated and I don't think he is as good as his rep - That's my only point.

 

[flamingrey]

I think his stats are inflated and I don't think he is as good as his rep - That's my only point.

You could make the same case for a number of posters on this board as well...

 

[cincygrad]

To be fair, I think a few of those games still would have been wins if not for crappy ST.

Could be..... But the Steelers have been plagued by some ST issues in their history and that hasn't kept Big Ben from winning. But, given that he doesn't put up big FF numbers there are plenty of folks around here that will claim he isn't any good.

 

[SportsGuy305]

This game sucks..

 

[cincygrad]

You could make the same case about a number of posters on this board as well...

LOL!

 

[futballiscool]

While he was putting up 'elite' numbers in 2010, he led a team that started 2-5. In 4 out of 5 of those losses they scored less than 21 points. Then with the season on the line, he loses a home game to Oakland where he puts up 13 and then lays an egg against the previously comatose Bengals. Let's put him in the HOF!!!

you could cherry pick a handful of games and hold them against any QB.

the guy's career speaks for itself. he's been an elite passer. his offense's score a ton of points... and he has a better career passer rating in games OUTSIDE of his division (not entirely suprsing since Bailey and Asomugha have been in his division before this season)..

he's a great QB. a few guys are better... and there are a couple of other ones you can argue.. but he's unquestionably in the discussion with the topflight QBs

 

[cincygrad]

And let's be honest. Rivers is a douchebag.

 

[vancelot23]

And let's be honest. Rivers is a douchebag.

Now this is definitely true. He's a gigantic dick. But a great QB.