Michael Sam Documentary

[RamCub]

Caynine -

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Even putting aside how people feel personally about the homosexual issue, Sam seems to be providing plenty of other reasons to dislike him at this point. Seems his attitude is extremely selfish and self-serving. He must have had some idea already that he was going to be at least some distraction for the team, and yet he went ahead with his agenda anyway, not caring about adding gasoline to the fire. He's been very deceitful up to this point.

 

[Retroram52]

Typical of many gays that I have contact with over the years.

 

[Chilipepper]

Just a maybe. Sams love interest also might be pushing Sam to bring a spotlight to this whole look at me I'm gay and proud to the world of Football?????? Sam might have been egged on to announce this whole gay thing for awhile by him.

 

[Caynine29]

Even putting aside He how people feel personally about the homosexual issue, Sam seems to be providing plenty of other reasons to dislike him at this point. Seems his attitude is extremely selfish and self-serving. He must have had some idea already that he was going to be at least some distraction for the team, and yet he went ahead with his agenda anyway, not caring about adding gasoline to the fire. He's been very deceitful up to this point.

I think "naive" would be a more apt description. He hasn't exactly been deceitful about anything.

 

[Caynine29]

Typical of many gays that I have contact with over the years.

Not me. Every homosexual I've ever met, to a man, has been a kind, upstanding and genuine individual. A better track record than straight people, if we're being honest.

Well... except for one guy who was a bartender at a restaurant I worked at, years ago. He was pretty much a jerk. Lol.

 

[Retroram52]

I think "naive" would be a more apt description. He hasn't exactly been deceitful about anything.

I am not sure Caynine. Sam stated that he wanted to concentrate on football and lay low knowing full well that he had signed a deal with Oprah contingent on being drafted. That is not exactly being NOT deceitful about anything. Didn't say a thing to the Rams or the NFL either because both were surprised when the info got out and the Rams cut it right off.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Naïve fits a description of you more than Sam Caynine. Or maybe just plain ignorant. I'd really like to hear your definition of deceitful if this isn't it. Please see Retro's post above this one.

 

[Caynine29]

I read Retro's response above (btw, thanks for keeping things classy and to the point as always, Retro)

So... name calling aside, BOSS. Lol... being deceitful would be overtly lying to the team, which is why I used the phrase "hasn't exactly". Choosing the word "deceitful" only serves to makes things sound a lot more damning than they actually are. Which, no doubt, is the angle you were going for. Buzz-words and subtext don't really work on me, though. Sure, he comes off a bit disingenuous with his statements, but that's about it. If the Rams had asked, him pre-draft if he had a TV deal in the works and he said "no"... that would be being deceitful. If he no intention of playing football and just wanted to get drafted to make a point... that would be being deceitful. Had he petitioned to press forward with the program despite the Rams' protests, I'd be a lot more suspect.

He unwisely ran with a poor idea presented by his representation thinking it could further his cause and could be done with minor inconvenience to the team. That's being naive. So far, he's guilty of poor judgement. That's it. The Rams checked him on it and he desisted without no resistance, whatsoever.

You're making this out to be a bigger deal than it actually is, because you want it to be a bigger deal than it actually is, BOSS. Sounds like Oprah isn't the only one out there with an agenda.

 

[redseat]

The Rams and the NFL are discovering that all of sudden Redseat.

I am wondering if all other teams somehow knew this was coming and didn't take a chance with Sam. Granted they also could have just thought he wasn't that good and not worth the risk. I just see something really bad happenign with this IF he either gets cut or has limited playing time. It might not come from him per sa but it might come in the form of speculation from the media and the Rams and any other team does not need that to worry about!

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

I read Retro's response above (btw, thanks for keeping things classy and to the point as always, Retro)

So... name calling aside, BOSS. Lol... being deceitful would be overtly lying to the team, which is why I used the phrase "hasn't exactly". Choosing the word "deceitful" only serves to makes things sound a lot more damning than they actually are. Which, no doubt, is the angle you were going for. Buzz-words and subtext don't really work on me, though. Sure, he comes off a bit disingenuous with his statements, but that's about it. If the Rams had asked, him pre-draft if he had a TV deal in the works and he said "no"... that would be being deceitful. If he no intention of playing football and just wanted to get drafted to make a point... that would be being deceitful. Had he petitioned to press forward with the program despite the Rams' protests, I'd be a lot more suspect.

He unwisely ran with a poor idea presented by his representation thinking it could further his cause and could be done with minor inconvenience to the team. That's being naive. So far, he's guilty of poor judgement. That's it. The Rams checked him on it and he desisted without no resistance, whatsoever.

You're making this out to be a bigger deal than it actually is, because you want it to be a bigger deal than it actually is, BOSS. Sounds like Oprah isn't the only one out there with an agenda.

There is no name calling Caynine. For somebody who wants us to think he is so articulate with his words, perhaps you should look up the definition of ignorant and naïve. Neither are derogatory terms, just descriptions of a particular state of mind. And again I will say the only one here that is naïve is you, and you also make a deliberate choice to be ignorant by ignoring the facts. If the Rams asked him if he had a TV deal in the works before the draft and he said no that's your definition of deceitful??? That's the definition of out right lying! And nobody is going to ask such an obscure question like that anyway so I guess that means he can be deceitful and be left off the hook according to your way of thinking. So unless your spouse asks you directly if you have had an affair, and you never mention it I guess you think that isn't being deceitful either huh?

And of course to quote you directly, "The Rams checked him on it and he desisted without no resistance whatsoever" Your 3rd grade grammar aside, I still understand what you mean, and what exactly did you expect him to do when confronted about something he obviously was instrumental in, pretend he didn't know about it???

I don't care what semantics you use to describe Sam's behavior, he was by definition deceitful. He knew what he was doing, he had the whole thing planned out in advance of being drafted, he DELIBERATELY misled people by subterfuge.

Your fancy words don't work on me either when all you're doing is trying to confuse the issue. I'm beginning to suspect that you and Shopson are one and the same. At least you both went to the same school for logic. If you want to stick up for the gays of the world that's your business. You should really try to be a little more subtle though with your agenda.

 

[Chilipepper]

Well Sam did say he didn't mention that he was going to make a documentary because he thought it would hurt his chances of being drafted. So how about a glaring omission? Which is just a hair away from deceitful. Bottom line, Sam wasn't on the up and up with teams because he thought it would be a distraction for the organization. Not good in my book. It's a form of backstabbing.

 

[Caynine29]

There is no name calling Caynine. For somebody who wants us to think he is so articulate with his words, perhaps you should look up the definition of ignorant and naïve. Neither are derogatory terms, just descriptions of a particular state of mind. And again I will say the only one here that is naïve is you, and you also make a deliberate choice to be ignorant by ignoring the facts. If the Rams asked him if he had a TV deal in the works before the draft and he said no that's your definition of deceitful??? That's the definition of out right lying! And nobody is going to ask such an obscure question like that anyway so I guess that means he can be deceitful and be left off the hook according to your way of thinking. So unless your spouse asks you directly if you have had an affair, and you never mention it I guess you think that isn't being deceitful either huh?

And of course to quote you directly, "The Rams checked him on it and he desisted without no resistance whatsoever" Your 3rd grade grammar aside, I still understand what you mean, and what exactly did you expect him to do when confronted about something he obviously was instrumental in, pretend he didn't know about it???

I don't care what semantics you use to describe Sam's behavior, he was by definition deceitful. He knew what he was doing, he had the whole thing planned out in advance of being drafted, he DELIBERATELY misled people by subterfuge.

Your fancy words don't work on me either when all you're doing is trying to confuse the issue. I'm beginning to suspect that you and Shopson are one and the same. At least you both went to the same school for logic. If you want to stick up for the gays of the world that's your business. You should really try to be a little more subtle though with your agenda.

First off... my apologies for the "3rd grade grammar". The sentence was originally written; "The Rams checked him on it and he desisted without resistance." I didn't like the cadence of that sentence (it read kind of sing-songy. Lol), so I changed it to "The Rams checked him on it and he desisted with no resistance, whatsoever." Unfortunately, I left the "soever" on after the edit. It happens.

Look... I get it... you don't like homosexuals and you don't want them on your team. The difference between you and me is, if it means helping the Rams win, I'm willing to give the guy a chance, regardless. If you want to root against a Rams player over something that doesn't negatively affect your life, other than the fact that you fear change, that's your prerogative. However... what's done is done. The wheels are already in motion and you don't have a brake. Michael Sam was drafted and is in rookie camp as we speak. Jeff Fisher, Les Snead, Kevin Demoff, Stan Kroenke, the Rams, St. Louis, the United States, and the world are moving forward with, or without you. Sorry 'bout your luck, man.

 

[shopson67]

Boss, you seem to be the one with the agenda, anti-gay. I could care less if a player is gay, bi, green or purple. You're the one singling out a player for whom he decides to have a relationship with. I just want to improve the roster, and if Sam can do that, great. If not, he'll be cut and someone else will.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

I think the ORIGINAL discussion or argument, whichever you prefer, was about whether Sam was being deceitful or not. It's obvious you lost that debate. Now on to your next retort.....I do not hate Sam or other homosexuals per se as you imply. I do not deny that I don't agree with their lifestyle but I also believe we live in a free country. But living in a free country affords me the same freedoms as everybody else. And with that freedom I choose not to participate in helping, condoning, or in any way promoting their beliefs or agenda because I believe it is morally wrong, and I believe it is against God's word. Whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant, I'm not really looking for your approval. You have your right to believe what you choose as well as I do. But typical of the homosexual agenda, you also try to confuse the issue with superfluous fundamentally untrue.....crap, for lack of a better word. Don't feed me lies and tell me I have to accept them because it's "fair" or if I don't I'm being a racist. Look in the Bible Caynine, if you even know what that is. I guess God must be a racist then as well huh.

 

[shopson67]

Well Sam did say he didn't mention that he was going to make a documentary because he thought it would hurt his chances of being drafted. So how about a glaring omission? Which is just a hair away from deceitful. Bottom line, Sam wasn't on the up and up with teams because he thought it would be a distraction for the organization. Not good in my book. It's a form of backstabbing.

Sure, that was deceitful, but the documentary is going away at least temporarily, so the issue is gone. Somehow, I doubt Sam pitched the documentary to Oprah; I'm sure it was a combination of big money being thrown at him and his interest in helping his cause. It's not like he's waiting to pounce with his documentary once the Rams have been tricked into drafting him.

 

[Retroram52]

I am wondering if all other teams somehow knew this was coming and didn't take a chance with Sam. Granted they also could have just thought he wasn't that good and not worth the risk. I just see something really bad happenign with this IF he either gets cut or has limited playing time. It might not come from him per sa but it might come in the form of speculation from the media and the Rams and any other team does not need that to worry about!

I suspect they might have Redseat or they didn't want the associated media blitz which the Rams experienced with Oprah and Sam's documentary. At any rate, this may end badly for the Rams on both scenarios. If he gets cut, the speculation and second guessing will commence. If he earns a roster spot, then we shall see how players react to his notoriety and extra exposure that some are starting to envy.

Sure players are ususally PC when the cameras are on but when they are off, the players talk and the trash talking on the field will remain nasty and may be even increased for general purposes just to get inside people's heads. Whatever occurs, I think many amy realize that they didn't exactly think this one through compared to the potential headache they may have to endure.

 

[Caynine29]

Lol. "Morality"? In defense of the NFL?? You can shelve your morality argument, BOSS. I think this guy says it best.

Dale Hansen on Michael Sam Coming Out as Gay - YouTube

And yes... I know the Bible. It's a poor tool for debate, if you have to cherry-pick your passages and ignore half of it just to keep your argument from falling apart.

But, I'm sure there's something in there saying r*pe, assault, drug use, obstruction and murder are A-okay with the Lord... right?

 

[Retroram52]

Isn't one of the mantras of gay supporters is that of tolerance? I suspect that tolerance can be universal but recently it has been anything but for a lot of reasons. You can claim you don't care whether someone is gay and the true interest is only if they can help the team win with their talent.

You cannot tease out one's behaviors from the football skills because we are not dissectable, categorized creatures that compartmetalizes brain activity or behavior entirely in isolation. Our brains work in a coordinated fashion, not in sections in a herky-jerky fashion. That would be a disability.

In other words, in this life, nothing happens in a vacuum and everything has consequences. Things thought, stated, and done in private affect public life. We have data on that one if anyone is interested, but I suspect if I presented it folks would question its authenticity so I'll leave it at that.

 

[BOSS429Mustang]

Lol. "Morality"? In defense of the NFL?? You can shelve your morality argument, BOSS. I think this guy says it best.

Dale Hansen on Michael Sam Coming Out as Gay - YouTube

And yes... I know the Bible. It's a poor tool for debate, if you have to cherry-pick your passages and ignore half of it just to keep your argument from falling apart.

But, I'm sure there's something in there saying r*pe, assault, drug use, obstruction and murder are A-okay with the Lord... right?

Sorry, I don't bother with links to gay sites. If you have an argument, say it yourself, don't try to get others to say what you're incapable of articulating.

The Bible is a poor tool for debate?? Well, I guess it is when it doesn't support your argument. And who said anything about condoning drug use or r*pe or whatever else you mentioned? Obviously the Bible doesn't condone any of that---- typical more irrelevant crap from you to cloud the issue in true homosexual agenda fashion.

As I said earlier, I could care less if you agree with my reasons or not. In order for me to care your opinion would have to mean something to me, which it does not. You obviously have your liberal way of seeing things and I have my conservative viewpoint. I'm not going to change your perspective or lifestyle and you're certainly not going to convince me of yours. About the only thing we have in common is that we're both Rams fans. But I doubt we'll be tail-gating together anytime soon.