Mayhew may franchise Suh

[RobBase]

Franchising Suh doesn't affect those guys being here. Not 1 bit.

Suh is also the centerpiece to which all those players feed off of. No way those guys play the same with an Andre Fluellen instead of Suh anchoring the D line. Or even a Fairley.

 

[TBBishop]

Franchising Suh doesn't affect those guys being here. Not 1 bit.

Didn't say that they were affected at all. I said this defense isn't all about Suh. If you used that money on the right free agents and draft properly then the D doesn't miss a beat.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

TBbishop.....


are you going to trust Fairley to keep up with his diet, workout, training, maturity issues once he gets another meaningful contract... say 3-4 years.... A lot of players similar to Fairley in that final contract year do the total reversal from previous years display of on/off field characteristics.


I like Fairley but in the same breath he just might become the much cheaper version of Haynesworth.... back to his lazy ways. he had 4 years to get out of that shit frame of mind

 

[TwoCents22]

You don't typically see the Patriots, the Ravens, the stankin' ass Packers overpaying players. They just keep it moving and end up in pretty much the same place every year, at the top of the league in some way, shape or form. The teams that overpay "irreplaceable" players

Again, to anyone saying the Patriots wouldn't tag Suh in this situation: THEY TAGGED A BACKUP QB FOR $14.65 MILLION!!!

And don't tell me "they knew the could trade him" BS. They didnt know just like we don't know if we can trade Suh. They didn't know he wouldn't sign the tender be a backup and leave the next year, just like we don't know if Suh would just leave next year. Same dam thing. Except Suh would actually PLAY, and at an AllPro level at that.

 

[Naughtymax]

TBbishop.....


are you going to trust Fairley to keep up with his diet, workout, training, maturity issues once he gets another meaningful contract... say 3-4 years.... A lot of players similar to Fairley in that final contract year do the total reversal from previous years display of on/off field characteristics.


I like Fairley but in the same breath he just might become the much cheaper version of Haynesworth.... back to his lazy ways. he had 4 years to get out of that shit frame of mind

Yup. Contract would definitely need to be light on signing bonus and heavy on workout, weight, and performance bonuses. Under those circumstances, though, I might be pretty happy paying $6MM per year for 4 years.

 

[Naughtymax]

Again, to anyone saying the Patriots wouldn't tag Suh in this situation: THEY TAGGED A BACKUP QB FOR $14.65 MILLION!!!

And don't tell me "they knew the could trade him" BS. They didnt know just like we don't know if we can trade Suh. They didn't know he wouldn't sign the tender be a backup and leave the next year, just like we don't know if Suh would just leave next year. Same dam thing. Except Suh would actually PLAY, and at an AllPro level at that.

No, no. They knew they could RELEASE him if they couldn't trade him.

 

[Microwahevo]

Again, to anyone saying the Patriots wouldn't tag Suh in this situation: THEY TAGGED A BACKUP QB FOR $14.65 MILLION!!!

Yes, but that was b/c they weren't sure if Brady would be back for the '09 season in time. Then, they traded Cassell to the Chiefs and they didn't have to deal with that $14mil cap hit.

And looking at the salaries for the Patriots in 2009, they had plenty of room to spare as Brady and Moss took up only $23 million of the available $128 million cap. And that $14 mil then never even was a bother b/c Cassell took his services elsewhere.

 

[TBBishop]

TBbishop.....


are you going to trust Fairley to keep up with his diet, workout, training, maturity issues once he gets another meaningful contract... say 3-4 years.... A lot of players similar to Fairley in that final contract year do the total reversal from previous years display of on/off field characteristics.


I like Fairley but in the same breath he just might become the much cheaper version of Haynesworth.... back to his lazy ways. he had 4 years to get out of that shit frame of mind

I can't sit here and act like I trust Fairley, like I know that he'll keep it up, but maybe he actually has matured and understands what he needs to do to have a long and successful career. We'll see. But letting Suh AND Fairley walk would be painful. Give him an incentive laden contract, have an out clause if he doesn't live up to his side of the bargain. But they can't lose Suh and Fairley right now.

 

[TBBishop]

Again, to anyone saying the Patriots wouldn't tag Suh in this situation: THEY TAGGED A BACKUP QB FOR $14.65 MILLION!!!

And don't tell me "they knew the could trade him" BS. They didnt know just like we don't know if we can trade Suh. They didn't know he wouldn't sign the tender be a backup and leave the next year, just like we don't know if Suh would just leave next year. Same dam thing. Except Suh would actually PLAY, and at an AllPro level at that.

Did franchising Cassel cripple them? Did it put them over the cap? Were they able to sign other players to fill needs and keep their other important free agents? So, no, it's not even close to the same thing.

 

[TwoCents22]

Yes, but that was b/c they weren't sure if Brady would be back for the '09 season in time. Then, they traded Cassell to the Chiefs and they didn't have to deal with that $14mil cap hit.

And looking at the salaries for the Patriots in 2009, they had plenty of room to spare as Brady and Moss took up only $23 million of the available $128 million cap. And that $14 mil then never even was a bother b/c Cassell took his services elsewhere.

They weren't sure if Brady would be back a year later? $14 mil for a couple game replacements still a lot.

As for TBB saying franchising Suh would "cripple" us, how? What significant contributors to this team would we have to cut? I'm pretty sure we could keep everybody significant. I think we would be "crippled" if Suh left and we failed to get significant guys to replace him.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

I agree with 2 cents. If they can't sign him...franchise him. They cannot break up this D. Even if it's only for 1 more year. WE (Lions fans) have never seen a D like this in the D. Suh is 100% the centerpoint in that. Not to mention the fact we will have Tulloch back and Van Noy, I think this D can be better next year. Draft well and we could make a good run next year. The window to win in the NFL is small for most teams, they must capitalize on that now...IMHO

 

[TBBishop]

Yes, when they franchised Cassel they weren't sure at that point what would happen with Brady's knee. They could speculate but they didn't know. That's why they tagged him. Still it's $13 less than it would take to tag Suh. The cap is expected to be $140-143 mil. Lets just say $143. We have over $124 mil committed already. That's $19 mil clear with Suh counting for $27 mil. We would have to cut $8 mil in salaries. So Bush is gone, Tulloch is gone, Jones is gone, Dom is gone which needs to happen regardless. That would put us at about even. But that leaves no room for free agents and cuts will still have to be made to sign draft picks. So I don't know who would end up being the casualties but there would be more. Who do we pair Suh with, Reid? We can't resign Fairly, Mosely or even Fluellen. Are we playing Suh and Reid all game because we have no one behind them unless we get a couple of rookies. Can't bring back Tapp or Johnson and we've cut Jones. So we have Reid, Suh, Ansah and Taylor and no one behind them unless we draft all defensive linemen. And that's just the Dline. The defense will be in shambles if this is our Dline. That's good GMing to you, 22?

 

[TBBishop]

I agree with 2 cents. If they can't sign him...franchise him. They cannot break up this D. Even if it's only for 1 more year. WE (Lions fans) have never seen a D like this in the D. Suh is 100% the centerpoint in that. Not to mention the fact we will have Tulloch back and Van Noy, I think this D can be better next year. Draft well and we could make a good run next year. The window to win in the NFL is small for most teams, they must capitalize on that now...IMHO

It will not BE the same D if Suh is tagged.

 

[Dr. Evil-er]

Disagree. If future cap increases and future contract restructuring are needed to secure Suh long term then that's the deal you agree to. Tag now then begin work on a long term deal doing what needs to be done to get there.

I'm not feeling the paranoia about him here that others feel. I believe he wants to play here no reason for me to think Mayhew is lying.

Disagree. They can work the expected cap increases and likely restructuring scenarios into the structure of the deal they would sign now, not next year.

If he really wants to play here this deal gets done before March 2. If he really wants to be here then he also wants to win, and that means giving the front office enough time to game plan for players other than just himself.

It is beyond idiotic for the Lions to tag and then try again (for the third time) to get a deal done the year after. Actions speak way louder than words so if he is telling the truth about wanting to be here the deal gets done within the next 6 weeks.

Anything less and he is just blowing smoke and the Lions need to be smart enough to see that and walk away.

 

[jdwills126]

For everyone saying tag him don't even bring up a subject of lets sign another free agent later.

The Lions were not good enough to get past the first round this year and minus a couple of draft picks it's not going to be as strong next year if Bush, Matthias Tulloch, Fairley, Sims all leave. So sign Suh and not have enough to sign any of our own free agents or bring in new ones. And if you try to defer those contracts we face the same problem when it's time to sign Levy or Warford.

Suh had a great year. He also had a great rookie year sandwiched around 2 so so years. Everyone is just assuming the Lions are getting last years Suh. What happens if he sulks because he can't test free agency and mails it in? If he wants to leave forcing him to stay would not even be remotely a good thing.

As for the Patriots don't even compare one of the best ran franchises in the NFL to Detroit. They have the ability to bring in guys like Revis, Talib, Lloyd, and Dillion because they know how to work the salary cap. if detroit had space to tag Suh and pickup depth then it would be doable but Detroit doesn't have cap space.

Greg Hardy CAR
Jason Pierre-Paul NYG
Nick Fairley DET
Jared Odrick MIA
Jerry Hughes BUF
B.J. Raji GB
Adrian Clayborn TB
Osi Umenyiora ATL
Anthony Spencer DAL
Tommy Kelly ARI
Cory Redding IND
Dan Williams ARI
Corey Peters ATL
Terrence Cody BAL
Stephen Paea CHI
Ahtyba Rubin CLE
Terrance Knighton DEN
C.J. Mosley DET
Letroy Guion GB
Alan Branch NE
Kevin Williams SEA

2015 DL Free agents. How many could we sign for 26 million? Have depth and sign 1-3 more guys to keep the defense strong and with depth?

 

[jdwills126]

I'm not feeling the paranoia about him here that others feel. I believe he wants to play here no reason for me to think Mayhew is lying.

Not lying but Mayhew is the same guy that believed Ebron would be a difference maker and Young, LeShoure, and Broyles would be success. I think Mayhew says what fans want to hear.

 

[broncosmitty]

Jdw, Why can't we bring up sign a FA later?

Suh is the FA Id have at the top of any list. And it doesn't even require his consent to keep him.

 

[jdwills126]

Jdw, Why can't we bring up sign a FA later?

Suh is the FA Id have at the top of any list. And it doesn't even require his consent to keep him.

I am not against Suh. I am against a team already against the cap paying 35 million on one player. Thats the 26 the tag cost and the 9 deferred.

If we have to cut 5-7 guys or not resign them, then we have to have 3-4 depth players fill in and have 3-4 draft picks make contributions.

If we loose Fairley, Sims, Bush, Tulloch, and keep guys like Orvlosky and yes Dominic Raiola for 1 guy, will the Lions be better next season?

Or do we keep mortgaging the future by getting long term deals where they can't cut or trade a guy do to the deferred compensation?

IMO the Lions tie a chance on Raji and 1-2 more guys, find a good serviceable CB, and solid O-line depth they and bring back a couple of are own FA and they will be better.

Is Suh worth 26 million a year if he performs like he did 2 years ago? Or 3? For 26 million you have to not only get the absolute best at their position but they have to play like it and not get injured. And then you have to hope everyone else plays well and stays healthy.

About the ply guy I would think is worth that and it's no sure thing is JJ Watt.

 

[broncosmitty]

I guess I just don't see tagging him as mortgaging the future. This is definitely the franchise at a crossroads. If he's not back, I'll definitely have thoughts on how the excess money should be doled out.

And I don't want Bush back regardless. Riddick brings everything Reggie does, and isn't a walking injury report. (He also plays when it matters already.). Either way Id like to see a running back drafted that's more of lead back with Bell dropping back to what he is, a secondary guy.

Under no circumstances do I want Ravioli on the team. He's a loser. Should have been shed years ago IMO.

Fairley is done here IMO. Unless Suh is done here. Same with Tully. Unless he wants to take significantly less money. (He'll be the highest paid guy on defense that is on the roster if he isn't cut. Did fine without him.)

And to your post earlier, yeah, I long ago realized Mayhew is a liar, but I buy into what makes me happy.

 

[TwoCents22]

If we can't sign Suh to s longterm deal:

Plan A)

Franchise him @ $27 million. Won't be able to sign high price free agents. Tulloch, and most likely Bush, Broyles, and Jones will have to go. Calvin and Stafford may have to restructure meaning on the hook for Stafford for longer. But for the most part, all important players from last year return.

Plan B)

Let him walk. Use money to sign major upgrades. Get top Free Agents at OG, DT, and Cornerback. No DTs available are near Suh's caliber, so still have a hole at position. Also not much better CBs available than Mathis, but we will be able to get younger.

Plan C)

Let him walk. Unable to sign any major contributors via free agency. Would be able to add depth. Or if anyone gets hurt mid season, we'll be able to sign one of the top free agents that are always available mid season. So team is the same, maybe more depth, as last year, just minus Suh.


Those are the scenarios could play out. While plan B sounds great, it's the one we have no control of. Plan A we can make happen. Plan C we can make happen, also, but its obviously the worst.

*note: I put nothing about the draft because it has no more or less affect on any plan. Obviously if we draft well it would help any plan.