Matt Barkley

[ehwq]

I know I'm a little late to the party on this but what are peoples thoughts on selecting Jordan Hill over Matt Barkley? Personally as a casual (not hardcore) Seahawks fan and NFL fan, I would feel better having Barkley as a backup so they can have potentially a Kirk Cousins esc guy to step in if Wilson goes down at any point. The way the Hawks are now with Quinn and Jackson, their season will basically be over because we all know what tose two are capable of. Also in a couple years you could trade Barkley for a higher draft pick if he can produce when called upon.

So what do all the hardcore fans think about this, do you like the Hill pick or would you rather have Barkley instead?

 

[HawkSquatch]

Jordan Hill will be a beast. TJack will be just fine. Second string QB's are all about that level. Kirk Cousins didn't start that game. I believe if he did, the Skins playoff game wouldve produced a different result. Can you name another exciting second stringer?' Foles maybe, there aint many. Not with any, or much NFL experience..

 

[Podunkparte]

You have to bolster the other positions on the field before you have the luxury of paying high for a backup QB.

Best case scenario means that guy (backup QB) never sees the field unless we're blowing teams out in the 4th Q.

 

[NinerSickness]

I was the guy being called a lunatic when I said Matt Barkley was the next Alex Smith (not in a good way; meaning mediocre talent) after the junior season that made 90% of people predict he'd be the #1 pick overall. I never fell for it.

Don't shed any tears over passing on Barkely. The guy will never win anything in the NFL. You heard it here first.

...Well, not here first. You heard it on the Niners' board first. Except you didn't hear it there, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

 

[seahawksfan234]

To disagree with NinerSickness I was shocked when Matt Barkley fell. I think that if you give him an opportunity to start he could be a top tier NFL QB.

The reasons why he fell were due to his W/L record and his injury. If he would have been able to attend the senior bowl/combine that would have helped his draft stock.

The talent is there. If the talent was not there, he would never have been considered as a #1 draft pick in the first place.

That being said DT was a bigger need for the Seahawks than QB. Even if Matt Barkley becomes the very good QB I think he could be, he would be wasting away on Seattle's bench behind Russell Wilson. Jordan Hill will actually have a chance to play and make an impact, Barkley would not.

 

[NinerSickness]

The talent is there. If the talent was not there, he would never have been considered as a #1 draft pick in the first place.

That rationale doesn't hold water (depending on what you mean by "the talent"). Jimmy Clausen & Brady Quinn (2 other QB prospects I hated from day 1) were "considered as a #1 draft pick(s)" too, but they never had the talent of a top-tier NFL prospects. Both were cases of skin-deep QB analysis IMO. None of 'em had the talent of a guy like Jake Locker or Ryan Tannehill or RGII or Andrew Luck. Those were the guys who were destined to play on Sundays.

If you want a Kevin Kolb type of QB who might beat some crappy teams and maybe even make the playoffs but get bounced in the first round, by all means go with Matt Barkley. The guy looked like an all star because he just chucked the ball up (regardless of whether the WR was open) and his great WRs made the play for him. He's not going to be able to get away with that in the NFL.

Take it from a guy who suffered through years of mediocrity at QB (Alex Smith). Barkley is Alex 2.0.

 

[seahawksfan234]

That rationale doesn't hold water (depending on what you mean by "the talent"). Jimmy Clausen & Brady Quinn (2 other QB prospects I hated from day 1) were "considered as a #1 draft pick(s)" too, but they never had the talent of a top-tier NFL prospects. Both were cases of skin-deep QB analysis IMO. None of 'em had the talent of a guy like Jake Locker or Ryan Tannehill or RGII or Andrew Luck. Those were the guys who were destined to play on Sundays.

Jake Locker does not have NFL talent.

Having watched him play every game in his University of Washington career I knew from the beginning he did not have NFL accuracy.

He was drafted because he had played in a pro-system, had NFL size, a big arm, high upside and was very athletic. If Jake Locker somehow figured out how to throw a more accurate football he would be a great QB, but he is still yet to figure that out at the pro level.

Ryan Tannehill has (IMO) done better than Jake Locker so far and shows more promise but Tannehill and Locker both are actually quite similar prospects in the fact that they are both very athletic, have good size, a big arm but not the greatest accuracy. As a prospect I would take Barkley over Locker or Tannehill any day. Barkley would be a perfect fit in a west coast offense. Locker and Tannehill are both great athletes with big arms. They have a lot to prove in my eyes.

The draft gets it wrong plenty of times. Matt Barkley has an NFL accuracy and an NFL arm. I'm not saying that he is the next coming of Peyton Manning but he compares very well with Matt Schaub. There is nothing that Matt Barkley lacked unless you're super anal on your QBs being able to run a 4.5 40.

 

[seahawksfan234]

P.S. dude you don't have to bold half your post lol

 

[NinerSickness]

P.S. dude you don't have to bold half your post lol

I don't. I just try to remember to bold the players' names so when people are skimming through posts, it's easier to see what I'm discussing. It's just a habit I've adopted.

As far as Jake Locker & Tannehill are concerned, whether they succeed or not won't be a matter of talent. It'll come down to how hard they work, how much help they have & coaching. And that has zer to do with their abilities to run the ball. I think Ryan Mallett (the slowest QB on planet earth) is more talented than Barkley, and I was never a big Mallett fan.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I don't. I just try to remember to bold the players' names so when people are skimming through posts, it's easier to see what I'm discussing. It's just a habit I've adopted.

As far as Jake Locker & Tannehill are concerned, whether they succeed or not won't be a matter of talent. It'll come down to how hard they work, how much help they have & coaching. And that has zer to do with their abilities to run the ball. I think Ryan Mallett (the slowest QB on planet earth) is more talented than Barkley, and I was never a big Mallett fan.

When it comes to Locker or Tannehill it comes down to being able to progress with reads and foot work.
Mallett IMO will never make it and I'm just undecided on Barkley. However I have no regrets on passing on Barkley because Wilson is going to be our starter and drafting a backup rather then a player who can help now is a no brainer.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I don't. I just try to remember to bold the players' names so when people are skimming through posts, it's easier to see what I'm discussing. It's just a habit I've adopted.

As far as Jake Locker & Tannehill are concerned, whether they succeed or not won't be a matter of talent. It'll come down to how hard they work, how much help they have & coaching. And that has zer to do with their abilities to run the ball. I think Ryan Mallett (the slowest QB on planet earth) is more talented than Barkley, and I was never a big Mallett fan.

Lol Ryan Mallett couldn't hit the water if he was falling out of a boat.

 

[jjames69]

weren't the seahawks one of worst passing teams in the league last year? the seahawks can win without wilson.

 

[Logicallylethal]

I think a lot of fans are enticed by the 6'3-6'5 laser rocket arm raw potential of the qbs like Jake Locker (who I am a big fan of btw) and Ryan Mallet, but when it comes to quarterbacking in the NFL I think pin point accuracy and the ability to read an NFL defense is a bit more important.

I think Matt Barkley could be a solid starter in the NFL if he's given the right system, coaching, and development...but we have our QB in Russell already so I would much prefer getting Cristine Michaels who could be groomed to replace Marshawn in a year or two from now so we can save cap and keep guys like Sherman, Russell, Okung, Earl, etc.

As for Jake Locker though...I know a lot of us in Seattle have seen how terribly inaccurate he was and how disappointing he was overall in his tenure as a Washington Husky...but I still want to see the guy succeed. He showed a lot of improvements last year despite playing behind a pretty bad oline. He has the arm (as most have mentioned), he has the 6'3 frame, he's agile and quick, can potentially run read option...so the potential is there...the accuracy just needs to be developed

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

weren't the seahawks one of worst passing teams in the league last year? the seahawks can win without wilson.

There's a difference of being a bad QB and a rookie QB being eased into the system. I expect the Seahawks to be a Top 10-12 passing team this year.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

weren't the seahawks one of worst passing teams in the league last year? the seahawks can win without wilson.

The Seahawks passed less then any team in the NFL I believe, but doesn't= worst passing team. Just means they are a running team. Wilson when needed stepped up and performed. See Bears or Falcons games as examples and while Seahawks could win some games without Wilson, they need Wilson if they want to aim for the Superbowl IMO.

 

[dredinis21]

I'm with Sick on this, Barkley is completely overhyped. You can say that you need to have NFL accuracy but ultimately you still need the arm strength to get it where you need it to go. Barkley has average arm strength and slightly above average accuracy. His decision making can be questioned, especially last season. His leadership skills could be questioned based on the "alleged" fights in the locker room at USC. Ultimately, he was overhyped coming out of Mater Dei, he was given the starting job as a freshman and has been overhyped ever since. Can he be a serviceable QB in the NFL, solid backup? Sure. But IMO he lacks the physical tools to be elite or even great. Jordan Hill OTOH is a beast. As a Niner fan, I HATED the Michael pick and I was pissed when SEA drafted Hill. I think you guys will be happy with Hill.

 

[SeattleOspreys]

I was the guy being called a lunatic when I said Matt Barkley was the next Alex Smith (not in a good way; meaning mediocre talent) after the junior season that made 90% of people predict he'd be the #1 pick overall. I never fell for it.

Don't shed any tears over passing on Barkely. The guy will never win anything in the NFL. You heard it here first.

...Well, not here first. You heard it on the Niners' board first. Except you didn't hear it there, so you'll just have to take my word for it.

NS, I agree. Barkley did go to a perfect situation in Philly, though. 3 step drop, quick short tosses and some nice RB's. McCoy, BBrown and an injury prone FJones.

I debated this Hawk blogger who runs a Hawk site that liked Barkley over Luck in 2011 for the 2012 draft. I disected the 2011 QB class because I don't care about these "so called experts" that can't pick their nose w/out a turnaquet (sp). I have a "love" breakdown of RG3 when most considered RG3 a 3rd round talent and I had him a top 10 selection. Bam!

Barkley is overrated and here's 1 of 2 delinated tape segments against Colorado in Barkley's JR year and my stance vs another guy's site.

I looked over the tape and looked for plays when Barkley went downfield and specifically, down the seam, where he doesn’t often go. His bread and butter throws are the bubble screen, the slant, the roll out fade and then ca heckdown.

Of 39 pass attempts this is what I noticed.

:06 – First pass of the game deep left to Woods was overthrown.

:25 – Rolled out right and threw a real nice ball to Woods near the sidelines.

:37 – Nice pump fake and throw deep right to Lee for the TD. Showed nice touch.

:53. Barkley is in the pocket with no pressure, you can see he’s looking at the slot receiver on the left who could be Lee to make his break.

:55. The CU defender is falling down and Lee is making his break to the center of the field and is wide open for a 1st down and running room.

:56. Barkley with no pressure decides to check down to Tellfar who comes up 4 yds short of the 1st down.
You can clearly see Barkley looking at Lee and should throw one of those anticipatory coming out of his break throws to hit his receiver in stride for a big gainer. Barkley didn’t do it and checked it down.

Barkley just doesn’t show a mastery of the middle of the field.

2:49 – Deep left to Woods but couldn’t split the defenders on an overthrow and incomplete.

3:00 – Deep left to Woods again was overthrown.

3:23 – Finally goes down the middle and ball should’ve been picked as it was in triple coverage. CU player fell on his head and was injured on the play.

4:25 – Nice look off to Woods and back to Lee who dropped the easy Td. Lofted a bit much and Lee slowed slightly.

4:54 Lee TD on another lofted touch pass.

6:00 Deep Middle pass was overthrown.

6:35 One of the better stick throws for a 1st down to Lee.

6:58 Deep TD pass to Woods on an improvised play.Nice job. Lofted pass that Woods had to hold up for. Replay at 7:20

7:35 Deep right with some mustard but went over Lee’s head and out of bounds.

I’m nit picking but of 39 passes, I saw 2 that Barkley fired in there. At :25 on the rollout to Woods and at 6:35 to Lee.

Barkley has excellent touch with the fades as demonstrated on the TD pass to Lee at :37.

When Barkley tried to drive the ball down the seam or between defenders, I did not see much success (look at the incompletions) and you’re going to need to make those throws to be more than a game managing point guard QB in the NFL that relies on a run game and defense to win games.

That is my concern and it’s nit picking but most everything Barkley completes is deep fades left or right, bubble screens left or right, some short slants and checkdowns in the middle.

Barkley is a 2nd round talent and not a top 3 or better than Luck. Heck, I love RG3 who you say won't even make it in the NFL.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwdNfoLi-7Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Matt Barkley vs Colorado 2011 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[SeattleOspreys]

2nd analysis of Barkley vs U.W. -

Another solo Barkley tape against my Dawgs in 2011. It doesn't surprise me, he turned into a 4th round draft pick. If he didn't have to be BMOC, he couldn't come out in '12 and made another $15 million.

:04 That’s a nice roll out and dart to Tellfer who Barkley really looked to in this game. Nice play.

:50 The pump fake and deep left pass to Butler was real nice. Again, Barkley shows very nice touch on the 9 route fades but NFL bread and butter? No.

3:56 Very decisive with a short bullet to Lee for the TD.

5:21 Faced pressure, hung in tough and showed good pocket awareness in a 1st down throw to Lee.

5:45 His pocket presence is impressive here on the checkdown.

Barkley displays solid fundamentals, intangibles and a grasp of what he wants to do as QB but you're going to need more than that to be a game changing QB in the NFL.

A few nit pick items to balance what I saw.

:10 Got fooled on the zone blitz as DE dropped into coverage and should’ve been picked. Looked a bit similar to ASU’s Berficts interception and return for TD.

3:05 and 3:18 Looks to be leaning and throwing off his back foot and a pass gets batted.

3:37 My main concern has been Barkley’s mastery of the middle of field and crossing routes as delineated in the Colorado write up. This was an example where he throws way behind his receiver on a middle crossing route. Replay at 3:45.

4:40 Not sure what he was doing on that throw into triple coverage.

5:13 He hesitated too long in the pocket on the skinny post and then had to fire it and overthrew his target. He had a chance to release the ball sooner and nail that for a TD.

6:32 Typically excellent on the 9 rte fades, he underthrew Woods who had to slow and had ball batted by Richardson.

There isn’t going to be perfect throws everytime so a lot is nit picking. My transition to NFL concern has been and continues to be the mastery and accuracy in the middle of the field.

I don’t like USC’s offense. When you have Tellfer, Woods and Lee running different route combinations and with their skill, why do we see so many bubble screens, sideline fades and checkdowns?

It is a reason that in the top 35 college passer rated QB’s, Barkley has the lowest y.p.a. at 7.5 despite completing 2/3rds of his passes. That and the middle of the field anticipatory stick throws still concern me.

For a top 3 pick, Barkley needs to be far more impressive. This is Mark Sanchez re-incarnated.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcQCg2IU7bE&feature=youtube_gdata_player"]Matt Barkley vs Washington 2011 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[SeattleOspreys]

Lol Ryan Mallett couldn't hit the water if he was falling out of a boat.

I actually was a fan of Mallett's game. I broke down tape of the 2011 QB draft prospects.

While I have a detailed write up on Mallet and the rest of the class, Mallett had one of the best arms in that draft class. Not shown, I called Mallett to be the next Ryan Leaf or Joe Flacco. A $1mm arm but potentially a 5 cent head.

I liked Mallett more than Barkley and I think Mallett was my 4th or 5th rated QB. This was 1 Mallett game I checked out and it was against LSU with Claiborne and Peterson, the best CB combo in the NCAA. I'm not sure if this will give you a different perspective of Mallett's arm.

I don't look at stats and declare talent. It has always been about my "EYE TEST". Stats need to
corroborate what the "eyes" see.

:47 Mallett throws a frozen rope on the sidelines for an 85 yd td that very few college QB’s can make.

1:14 6 secs left in half throws that beautiful 40 yd BB that goes for an 80 yd td when 2 LSU defenders collide. (Claiborne) Peterson can't do anything.

1:45 4th and 3, Mallett unleashes his patented deep touch pass with accuracy for his 3rd td.

2:39 For a supposed immobile QB, side steps a blitzing rusher to toss a perfect pass and completion.

2:49 Mallett has NFL play action pass ability shown at 2:49 with this misdirection play.

The other tape was deleted per copyright infringements.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZUoWL97N_A&NR=1"]Arkansas vs LSU ESPN Highlights - YouTube[/ame]

 

[NinerSickness]

Hey Osprey, do you have a designated college football / NFL draft thread on this forum? Or do the people 'round here not care about that stuff now that the Seahawks are good?

I'm starting to develop a few strong-ish opinions on some of the top prospects this year. Some random ones:

*Marqise Lee > Sammy Watkins. Watkins is like top shelf tequila, Michael Vick or a groupie: he goes down easy. I like Lee significantly more.

*Why does nobody have Donte Moncrief as one of the top WR prospects? I'm not even seeing him on top 100 lists. He's quick, graceful, big... I've been contrasting him VS Jordan Matthews (whom I like too). Moncrief is a MUCH MUCH better blocker, he seems a little quicker, he's listed at 11 pounds more than Matthews... anyway, have you seen the guy play? I think he's a diamond in the rough. At this point, I might even like him more than Watkins. However, I put a lot more emphasis on combine numbers than most people, so this could change obviously.

*I LOVE Antonio Richardson. I couldn't help but notice him when I was watching games looking at the Tennessee WRs last year (I like his teammate C James Stone too, and I'm baffled as to why nobody has taken notice of him). Dude has everything you want in a LT prospect IMO. I think Duane Brown is a good comparison. This OT class as a whole is obscene. There are tons of (literally) great prospects.

FSU DT Timmy Jernigan is a bit overrated IMO.

Anyway, do you have a thread for this kind of stuff? Or do you leave it on the college forums?