Major Changes Needed

[SJ20]

It's about time to clean house. This season has been a disgrace. But todays loss, was just a complete embarrassment. This is sad. Just completely unacceptable.

 

[SFNL]

The good news is I don't see this team rattling off a bunch of late season worthless wins to wreck our draft position. Time to start thinking about what to do with a top 5 pick.

 

[MISKO]

on the bright side the ravens lost to the browns today

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I posted this in another thread... But this thread seems more appropriate:

Always tough... But it's clearly obvious that the team needs to move in a different direction. This team is just not good enough, personnel-wise, to run the schemes set in place. And neither coordinator seems intent on adhering to the talent at hand. It could boil down to a stubborn coach or two, but regardless of the case, this team simply just doesn't have the pieces yet.

No matter what happens to Lebeau, he will always be a steelers legend. And rightfully so!

 

[element1286]

I posted this in another thread... But this thread seems more appropriate:

Always tough... But it's clearly obvious that the team needs to move in a different direction. This team is just not good enough, personnel-wise, to run the schemes set in place. And neither coordinator seems intent on adhering to the talent at hand. It could boil down to a stubborn coach or two, but regardless of the case, this team simply just doesn't have the pieces yet.

No matter what happens to Lebeau, he will always be a steelers legend. And rightfully so!

Just curious on what you would suggest to change on defense.

Well said on Lebeau.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Just curious on what you would suggest to change on defense.

Well said on Lebeau.

I saw his post on Lebeau in the week 9 folder....agree...class act, HOFer...legend not tarnished.

Don't know if you saw my post over there regarding changes, but that's where I would start.

Transitioning to young players, we really don't need a DEF scheme that even the orchestrator says requires a 3 years learning curve to be totally versed.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

I saw his post on Lebeau in the week 9 folder....agree...class act, HOFer...legend not tarnished.

Don't know if you saw my post over there regarding changes, but that's where I would start.

Transitioning to young players, we really don't need a DEF scheme that even the orchestrator says requires a 3 years learning curve to be totally versed.

Yea I saw that post over there. I didn't feel the need to touch base on it because we had talked about it a few times before. But to clarify, I do agree with the changes you proposed. All of them seem perfect for the personnel they have. ESPECIALLY the switch to a 4-3.

Lebeau definitely has a defense that is oriented toward veteran players, which is nuts to think about. But he made it work because of the quality of players that were drafted almost 10 years ago (some even longer). A rookie coming in and trying to understand his defense all the while trying to adjust to the NFL is a recipe for disaster. That's exactly why so many people are so quick to call many drafted players a bust after a few years. Take Cam Heyward for example... The kid is starting to kill it out there and all I have read on boards about him over the last couple of seasons is that he was a waste. Granted, Lebeau has changed his d-lineman schemes a lot which helped. But it still goes to show that his scheme requires time to learn. And time, is exactly what they don't have given the cap situation and the failures in the draft.

Sorry for the rant... This is stuff we all know.

But the changes I would like to see on defense would be the same things that ATL stated. Switching to a 4-3 and rearranging the d-line would be a huge boost to that defense. As well as asking Lebeau to step aside. The "3 year learning curve" scheme is not going to work anymore. They need faster results which means they need to be able to plug younger guys in and not have it be such a problem. And as everyone else has stated, they need to weed out the 32 to 33+ year old veterans on that defense. Losing that leadership value will hurt, but new leaders will step up.

 

[Psych-Ward]

This goes deeper than Lebeau.....

yesterday was the first time ever I have seen a deffense in Pittsburgh just flat out give up on plays!!! I mean they made it painfully obvious they were just giving up on plays!!! How this is acceptable is beyond belief!!!! I am Steelers thru and thru but that shit was just to much to watch. The offense finds a weak pulse and puts up 31 points and the D rolls over and gives up 55... Fucking pathetic!!!!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

This goes deeper than Lebeau.....

yesterday was the first time ever I have seen a deffense in Pittsburgh just flat out give up on plays!!! I mean they made it painfully obvious they were just giving up on plays!!! How this is acceptable is beyond belief!!!! I am Steelers thru and thru but that shit was just to much to watch. The offense finds a weak pulse and puts up 31 points and the D rolls over and gives up 55... Fucking pathetic!!!!

It does...imo directly to Tomlin. DEF is more effort and emotion than scheme.

 

[Psych-Ward]

It does...imo directly to Tomlin. DEF is more effort and emotion than scheme.

And Im not saying your right and Im not saying your wrong..... But you know as well as any Steeler fan.... Tomlin aint going anywhere!!!! This is one team that never has and never will just start giving the ax to head coaches!!!

 

[Cali Steel]

What about the train of thought that Tomlin really isn't that great of a head coach, but inherited Cowhers team, and now there is barely a trace of that team left.
Not saying this is what's going on, just saying.

 

[Psych-Ward]

What about the train of thought that Tomlin really isn't that great of a head coach, but inherited Cowhers team, and now there is barely a trace of that team left.
Not saying this is what's going on, just saying.

But Chuck Noll went through losing seasons, Bill Cohwer went through losing seasons, and now Tomlin is.... they are not going to can him over 2 shitty seasons.... that is a fact we all have to face!!!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

And Im not saying your right and Im not saying your wrong..... But you know as well as any Steeler fan.... Tomlin aint going anywhere!!!! This is one team that never has and never will just start giving the ax to head coaches!!!

Based on past history you're right, but even when Cowher was struggling in b-t-b losing seasons the team was competitive...if this team stays competitive its highly unlikely they will fire Tomlin.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

What about the train of thought that Tomlin really isn't that great of a head coach, but inherited Cowhers team, and now there is barely a trace of that team left.
Not saying this is what's going on, just saying.

I've head that train of thought...

Not a good HC, just good players...It is a fact, the best players were inherited by Tomlin. Same with Gruden in TB, even more recent Harbaugh in SF they all took an inherited roster to the SB. Sean Payton, and McCarthy are highly thought of HCs...they've been to the big dance once...with some pretty good rosters.

Because PIT has played in 8 SBs, I'm not sure if people really appreciate how hard it is to REACH the SB. Winning with good players imo makes you a good coach...winning with marginal players (Joe Gibbs) imo makes you a great coach. Not winning with good players gets you fired. And Not winning with bad players will eventually get you fired too.

Cowher's team...I wonder if he felt that way. Yes, he wife was ill, and he wanted to spend more time with her, but it was no secret that Cowher wanted more control over personnel. Parcells, Holmgren, Shanahan, BB...these guys were all getting that kind of power on the heels of winning rings. Bill felt he earned it with a SB win, Colbert was the man the Rooneys had for the job and that was going to be the way it stayed. Bill retired.

I'm sure Cowher had some hand in bringing in the players. I think his biggest credit should be building them into winner's because he didn't feel like he had the control he wanted over the roster.

 

[FaCe-LeE-uS]

Steelers Tomlin falls on grenade, shrapnel should hit players too - Behind the Steel Curtain

Worth the read...

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Thanks...it was.

Kudos to Tomlin for not throwing LeBeau/Colbert or Haley under the bus. If he wants to put it on his shoulders that’s fine, but for someone that understands how these NFL teams work…you can’t ignore the lack of talent on the team and it’s pretty much impossible for an NFL HC to have an idea what is going on with draft prospects until after the season is over.


NT…okay they decided to cut ties with Hampton…I understand…I think they felt McLendon was a stop gap player all along, but who thought that T’aamu could be a starting NFL NT? Fangupo? Hasn't been active all year.



DE…Hood takes a lot of crap, imo he suits up every week and does his job, but he’s not a playmaker like the DEs he’s replacing. Idk why it’s taken Heyward this long to really show he needs to be on the field, but I wouldn’t give up on him.


OLB…it’s starting to look like J.Jones might a better 4-3 OLB, or maybe a ILB in a 3-4. I still believe in the player, but not sure he’s in the right position to succeed. Worilds is a serviceable NFL LB, again, not a playmaker.


ILB…no offense to him, decent player, but still depending on Foote coming into this season imo was a shame…nobody ready....yet?


TE…huge drop off behind Miller and this position is blowing up around the league with young athletic guys in the 2nd/3rd rounds.


I haven’t even touched OL yet…thanks Tomlin, but no way can Colbert be let off the hook.

 

[SJ20]

What about the train of thought that Tomlin really isn't that great of a head coach, but inherited Cowhers team, and now there is barely a trace of that team left.
Not saying this is what's going on, just saying.

I've been saying this for some time now. Still willing to give Tomlin another season. But the thing is, we still really don't know how good of a head coach Tomlin is, if at all.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I've been saying this for some time now. Still willing to give Tomlin another season. But the thing is, we still really don't know how good of a head coach Tomlin is, if at all.

Kinda...imo we know what he can do with good players...what we don't know yet is if he can build a team/coach guys up, etc...we might think otherwise because of Ben, but this is a rebuilding situation.

 

[wings-pens2166]

Thanks...it was.

Kudos to Tomlin for not throwing LeBeau/Colbert or Haley under the bus. If he wants to put it on his shoulders that’s fine, but for someone that understands how these NFL teams work…you can’t ignore the lack of talent on the team and it’s pretty much impossible for an NFL HC to have an idea what is going on with draft prospects until after the season is over.


NT…okay they decided to cut ties with Hampton…I understand…I think they felt McLendon was a stop gap player all along, but who thought that T’aamu could be a starting NFL NT? Fangupo? Hasn't been active all year.



DE…Hood takes a lot of crap, imo he suits up every week and does his job, but he’s not a playmaker like the DEs he’s replacing. Idk why it’s taken Heyward this long to really show he needs to be on the field, but I wouldn’t give up on him.


OLB…it’s starting to look like J.Jones might a better 4-3 OLB, or maybe a ILB in a 3-4. I still believe in the player, but not sure he’s in the right position to succeed. Worilds is a serviceable NFL LB, again, not a playmaker.


ILB…no offense to him, decent player, but still depending on Foote coming into this season imo was a shame…nobody ready....yet?


TE…huge drop off behind Miller and this position is blowing up around the league with young athletic guys in the 2nd/3rd rounds.


I haven’t even touched OL yet…thanks Tomlin, but no way can Colbert be let off the hook.

excellent, excellent post...I'm really begin to think Tomlin is just not a very good HC, but there is no way you cannot lay a large portion of the blame at Colbert's feet.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

excellent, excellent post...I'm really begin to think Tomlin is just not a very good HC, but there is no way you cannot lay a large portion of the blame at Colbert's feet.

Thanks...Fair statement...I'm not ready to say that, but I'm not willing to debate that he is aside from his record. For the most part I think the jury is still out. HC from DEF roots are not going to be glamour guys, so even more so the DEF side of the ball should be strong and you have to have a good OC.