Lewis extended...

[CrashDavisSports]

Whether Mike Brown is 'cheap' or not is besides the point. The point is that he is a lousy businessman. As you point out, wouldn't a good businessman want to win games to potentially increase revenue? Hasn't Mike Brown been running a team for over two decades without a single playoff victory? Seems like a bum to me.

Once again, this breaks down to him not knowing what he is doing and trying to figure thigns out on the fly. He has made too many mistakes to count over the past 20 years, things look brighter now, but until there is more consistancy there and we actually win a game, no one, including myself will give him credit for turning things around right yet. Like I said in my other post before Flaming so rudely tried to pick a fight, Mike Brown has not done the things other good owners do who can admit when they do not know what to do..they hire GM's, they hire multiple scouts, they invest more back into the team. Mike's biggest problem is, as Cincy78 pointed out, he is hard headed and going to do things his way regardless of the outcome.

By taking this approach, it makes him stubborn, and his team has suffered, but that in no way means he lacks the desire to win, only that he lacks the desire to change because he is a pig headed old man.

To his credit, the teams have looked a lot better and the drafts have been a lot better the past couple years, he has gotten a couple more scouts, they have ad good drafts, and they are locking up their good young talent early. That still has not equaled a playoff victory which is where success is measured, but the corner has been turned, even if it is a small bend in a otherwise pretty straight road. As that is said, he needs to show he is going to conitnue to do things the right way and become a more consistant franchise. That jury is still out.

My original argument stands with Flaming though, my opinion is my f'n opinion, I do not need a damn facts to support my opinion other than Mike Brown would be more wealthy if he put a winning team on the field and increased all his side revenues versus lowering 14,500 seat prices and not getting sold out stadiums. IT would just be stupid to not want to win if the only reason was money.

 

[flamingrey]

Brown does not care about winning.

That is as close to fact as you can get without it actually being one.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Brown does not care about winning.

That is as close to fact as you can get without it actually being one.

And that is about as close to an opinion as you can get without having to be told it is just that, an opinion.

 

[bengaldoug]

I can remember after the 1981 Super Bowl run(yes, I'm that old), that Paul Brown was heard complaining that he made less money with that team than others that weren't so good. So it seems that Mikey comes by his preference for mediocrity honestly.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I can remember after the 1981 Super Bowl run(yes, I'm that old), that Paul Brown was heard complaining that he made less money with that team than others that weren't so good. So it seems that Mikey comes by his preference for mediocrity honestly.

That was before the CBA and salary cap. Whole different animal now. Teams that go to the playoffs and extend their season and pack the seats on a regular basis get more money now, because the money is pretty well spread equally across all teams. Of course the big market teams will make a decent amount more than small markets, but they can't spend more either, allowing the smaller market teams a chance to compete equally.

81, yes, I can believe that was a fact indeed. Today, I don't believe that is the case.

 

[cincygrad]

And being stubborn and failing to change at the expense of business performance pretty much makes you a crappy businessman. And I'm not willing to accept that things have 'changed' all that much.... We drafted four or five good players over the past 3 years (not including this draft class). It's about time we got it right on a few guys.

 

[bengaldoug]

And being stubborn and failing to change at the expense of business performance pretty much makes you a crappy businessman. And I'm not willing to accept that things have 'changed' all that much.... We drafted four or five good players over the past 3 years (not including this draft class). It's about time we got it right on a few guys.

Correctamundo.....they actually DO appear to have learned something about running a draft....the added scout(s) has helped there.....but when the system changed, the Bengals were the very last team to learn how to use the new system.....:confused2:

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I just want people to understand, I am not arguing how inept of an owner Mike Brown has been, I agree 100%.

I am just arguing mostly with Flaming that Mike Brown wants to win, IMO only, just that he has no idea how to do it, because he is too pig headed to do anything different than what he has done.

 

[Servo]

I just want people to understand, I am not arguing how inept of an owner Mike Brown has been, I agree 100%.

I am just arguing mostly with Flaming that Mike Brown wants to win, IMO only, just that he has no idea how to do it, because he is too pig headed to do anything different than what he has done.

I think yeah, he 'wants' to win. But he has done anything to ensure that happens. that's like talking to a kid at a community college that 'wants' to be a millionare but doesnt plan to further their education. It's not about what you want...it's about what you do.

I do think there have been changes (all of them good) in the organization lately. It might not be as quickly as we would like, but I do think that Brown is loosening his grip on the franchise and making small concessions to I'm assuming Marvin and Katie. Really, none of us know what goes on there. But something does seem different.

 

[Cincyfan78]

I think yeah, he 'wants' to win. But he has done anything to ensure that happens. that's like talking to a kid at a community college that 'wants' to be a millionare but doesnt plan to further their education. It's not about what you want...it's about what you do.

I do think there have been changes (all of them good) in the organization lately. It might not be as quickly as we would like, but I do think that Brown is loosening his grip on the franchise and making small concessions to I'm assuming Marvin and Katie. Really, none of us know what goes on there. But something does seem different.

Agreed. Again, it goes back to Brown's perception of "how" to win. He's stuck in 1970 with his dad. I don't doubt he "wants" to win, but he is sacrificing a part of that "want" because of his "need" to win "his way". He does want to win, but his perception is completely skewed on what it takes in 2012 to win.

At any rate, the team/organization is moving in the right direction. It's been a slow process (understatement of the decade) but things are looking better. I'm not a huge fan of Marvin's in-game decision making, and truth be told, his record would get anyone else fired on a "normal" team, but when you consider all the obstacles that he's removed, and the new path he's been able to put this franchise on, and even getting more control of the drafting, it's really not fair to gauge Marvin on a typical standard because no other coach in the NFL has to deal with what Marvin deals with.

Anyone can argue that another coach might be able to do more on the field (I don't think many would argue) but even some of the most respected coaches around the league would find the dealings with Brown such that they probably wouldn't want to take this job unless it was their last hope.

 

[bengaldoug]

I think yeah, he 'wants' to win. But he has done anything to ensure that happens. that's like talking to a kid at a community college that 'wants' to be a millionare but doesnt plan to further their education. It's not about what you want...it's about what you do.

I do think there have been changes (all of them good) in the organization lately. It might not be as quickly as we would like, but I do think that Brown is loosening his grip on the franchise and making small concessions to I'm assuming Marvin and Katie. Really, none of us know what goes on there. But something does seem different.

Agreed, there are positive changes. It's too little though, and these are changes that should have (and could have) been made 15 years ago. Yet we come back every year to unabashedly cheer them on. Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm hooked, and I've been hooked since 12 years of age (1968). Can't stop now, even after 43 years of futility. Just one thing keeps me going, and it has nothing to do with thinking they might win a Super Bowl before I die.

 

[BigBlueNation111]

Agreed, there are positive changes. It's too little though, and these are changes that should have (and could have) been made 15 years ago. Yet we come back every year to unabashedly cheer them on. Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm hooked, and I've been hooked since 12 years of age (1968). Can't stop now, even after 43 years of futility. Just one thing keeps me going, and it has nothing to do with thinking they might win a Super Bowl before I die.

lol...yea it helps!!

 

[bengaldoug]

lol...yea it helps!!

I'm 56 years old, I've had two heart attacks and a stroke, I have a pacemaker, several angioplasty/stent procedures, I believe I'm on borrowed time, so hurry up Bengals, and win one for Doug......

 

[flamingrey]

Agreed. Again, it goes back to Brown's perception of "how" to win. He's stuck in 1970 with his dad. I don't doubt he "wants" to win, but he is sacrificing a part of that "want" because of his "need" to win "his way". He does want to win, but his perception is completely skewed on what it takes in 2012 to win.

Since when was the 1970's (or even his father's) model of winning:

1) spending $20 million below the cap year after year
2) having less scouts than every other team in the league
(Those are the big ones off the top of my head, but I'm sure this list can go on and on...)

Will people please stop making this abolutely unsubstantiated claim.

Mike doesn't care about winning. He only cares about the best way to save money.

 

[Servo]

Paul Brown was before my time but I have a hard time believing that what he did then was out of line with what all the other NFL franchises were doing. What MB did not do (and what someone who had a good head for business would never do) is fail to adapt with the best practices in the NFL over the years. A strong businessman would acknowlege what his competition is doing and push to be more innovative than his peers.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Paul Brown was before my time but I have a hard time believing that what he did then was out of line with what all the other NFL franchises were doing. What MB did not do (and what someone who had a good head for business would never do) is fail to adapt with the best practices in the NFL over the years. A strong businessman would acknowlege what his competition is doing and push to be more innovative than his peers.

I think that is exactly right. I think his failure is that he didn't want to accept that the NFL was changing from his "dad's" way to a new era. That would mean the connection he had to his dad would be further diminished.

I think this is what has caused the "He wants to win" but "His own way" kind of thought process that many see/feel.

 

[flamingrey]

In what way is he trying to win his dad's way? By being cheap...?

Please enlighten me...

 

[cincygrad]

Honestly I think Mike Brown is just a clueless douchebag that could care less about anyone but his own family. Whether he wants to win, wants to save money, wants to do things his way is completely beside the point..... He's a failure and an asshole. That is all.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

In what way is he trying to win his dad's way? By being cheap...?

Please enlighten me...

Just stop, no one cares what you think as everything we say is returned with an arguement or unheard even if it is a reasonable thought. Right? Who knows, it is an opinion on a man none of us know. So your thought process is as right or wrong as ours, whether you want to admit it or not, because it is a guess, plain and simple.

You may think your thought is an educated guess based off this or that, but you can't debate the desire, heart, drive of another man by being on the outside looking in. You have to be closer to them to make that kind of assumption, so just f'n stop with your bullshit and I will stop with my guessing as well.

 

[DanBengalfan]

you don't get rich by blowing money on a weak medium sized market team, unfortunately. I think Mike Brown would feel some satisfaction in winning, but he's not going to blow an extra million or two to make it happen.