Kelchner's words

[WVUDAD]

From that site, the BE OOC record was MUCH improved after the defection of Miami, VPI, and BC. .621 to .678, who would have thought that

 

[WVUDAD]

DC, you cant just count wins, look at winning percentage, as the B11 gets two invites a year, deserved or not. you say the BE was "only" 5-5 after the defections, the B11 is 12-14, the B12 is 9-11, and the ACC is 3-13, so that 500 record is not bad.

BCS all-time records by school

AND there is a lowly BE team at the top of the winning percentage list for BSC bowls.

 

[bbwvfan]

Dad,

As much as you want to rag on the Big 12, it has proven to be a stronger conference than the BE in the past.

And, it is a much stronger conference than what is left of the BE today.

The Big 12 will be part of the separation from the NCAA, and it will continue to reap rewards with outstanding post-season bowls as well as some of the best money any conference could award its member schools.

The BE has died, and the new AAC media contract will pay its member schools even less than WVU made when it was a member.

If one wants to know how weak our conference was perceived while WVU was a member, a one-loss WVU was out of the BCS picture until several other one-loss teams ahead of them suffered their 2nd loss. Look at the '07 BCS Rankings Week #12

2007 NCAA College Football Polls and Rankings for Week 12 - ESPN

As much as I liked being a part of the BE... them's just the facts...

 

[Mac_Bridger]

From that site, the BE OOC record was MUCH improved after the defection of Miami, VPI, and BC. .621 to .678, who would have thought that

Miami was playing, and losing to, Florida and FSU yearly for the last few years. Not to mentions BC's annual beating by the Irish. Eliminate those games, add UofL vs hapless Kentucky... Well, I think you see the point.

 

[DCWV4life]

DC, you cant just count wins, look at winning percentage, as the B11 gets two invites a year, deserved or not. you say the BE was "only" 5-5 after the defections, the B11 is 12-14, the B12 is 9-11, and the ACC is 3-13, so that 500 record is not bad.

BCS all-time records by school

AND there is a lowly BE team at the top of the winning percentage list for BSC bowls.

If you just won't to go off of percentages then there are two teams from the big 12 tied with WVU, Kansas and Ok St. The Big East was still third behind the Pac10 and SEC.....And never played for a NC when every other conf did. .500 is not bad, but it's not good either...and those 5 wins are made up from two teams, that does not show much depth which I think was your arguement.

 

[WVUDAD]

Dad,

As much as you want to rag on the Big 12, it has proven to be a stronger conference than the BE in the past.

And, it is a much stronger conference than what is left of the BE today.

The Big 12 will be part of the separation from the NCAA, and it will continue to reap rewards with outstanding post-season bowls as well as some of the best money any conference could award its member schools.

The BE has died, and the new AAC media contract will pay its member schools even less than WVU made when it was a member.

If one wants to know how weak our conference was perceived while WVU was a member, a one-loss WVU was out of the BCS picture until several other one-loss teams ahead of them suffered their 2nd loss. Look at the '07 BCS Rankings Week #12

2007 NCAA College Football Polls and Rankings for Week 12 - ESPN

As much as I liked being a part of the BE... them's just the facts...

BB, I am not sold on the B12 being around long term. I see a management style that mirrors the BE management style, wanting things to stand pat, rather than being proactive. Right now, the B11, SEC, PAC, and ACC are behind the scenes planning on going to 16 teams, while the B12 is sitting there thinking that going back to 12 schools will make them split the money with two more. This is just my opinion, I see the PAC making a big grab for UT, OU, OSU, and TT, possibly on the same day, the B11 grabs IAST and one of the Kansas schools, the SEC and ACC will need four between them to get to 16 each, SOOOOO WVU, Baylor, TCU, the other Kansas school, and the former BE football schools Cinci, UConn, USF to vie for those spots. I would think that WVU would be the top choice and the best geographical fit for either the SEC or ACC, but we know Swofford HATES WVU. Yes, the BE is dead, but the B12 is in the hospital. AS to the BSC rankings, they are more based on the teams name than the league.... the year NW went undefeated, they were not in the championship conversation, nor was WF, or KU with one loss in 2007 as well. IF Ohio St goes undefeated out of the B11, they are in, if Iowa were to do the exact same, they would not be in without a LOT of help.

 

[DCWV4life]

BB, I am not sold on the B12 being around long term. I see a management style that mirrors the BE management style, wanting things to stand pat, rather than being proactive. Right now, the B11, SEC, PAC, and ACC are behind the scenes planning on going to 16 teams, while the B12 is sitting there thinking that going back to 12 schools will make them split the money with two more. This is just my opinion, I see the PAC making a big grab for UT, OU, OSU, and TT, possibly on the same day, the B11 grabs IAST and one of the Kansas schools, the SEC and ACC will need four between them to get to 16 each, SOOOOO WVU, Baylor, TCU, the other Kansas school, and the former BE football schools Cinci, UConn, USF to vie for those spots. I would think that WVU would be the top choice and the best geographical fit for either the SEC or ACC, but we know Swofford HATES WVU. .

I wanted the Big 12 to be more agressive last year as well...my insider said that UMD would have jumped if the rumor of the Big 12 raid of the ACC were true....last year in this area it was floated around the Big 12 going east and west with Iowa St going Big ten and UMD, FSU, Miami, Ville, Clemson, Ga Tech, and Va Tech making the Big 12 East...but as you stated we said we were happy with ten when the game is first to 16. We will see how it plays out, but in no case do i think we are left on the outside looking in.

If we are you should be happy though we will be playing that old BE schedule you like...

 

[bbwvfan]

BB, I am not sold on the B12 being around long term. I see a management style that mirrors the BE management style, wanting things to stand pat, rather than being proactive. Right now, the B11, SEC, PAC, and ACC are behind the scenes planning on going to 16 teams, while the B12 is sitting there thinking that going back to 12 schools will make them split the money with two more. This is just my opinion, I see the PAC making a big grab for UT, OU, OSU, and TT, possibly on the same day, the B11 grabs IAST and one of the Kansas schools, the SEC and ACC will need four between them to get to 16 each, SOOOOO WVU, Baylor, TCU, the other Kansas school, and the former BE football schools Cinci, UConn, USF to vie for those spots. I would think that WVU would be the top choice and the best geographical fit for either the SEC or ACC, but we know Swofford HATES WVU. Yes, the BE is dead, but the B12 is in the hospital. AS to the BSC rankings, they are more based on the teams name than the league.... the year NW went undefeated, they were not in the championship conversation, nor was WF, or KU with one loss in 2007 as well. IF Ohio St goes undefeated out of the B11, they are in, if Iowa were to do the exact same, they would not be in without a LOT of help.

We've had this discussion a half dozen times... or more.

I would have preferred seeing the Big 12 expand too... but, I wanted to see it work with the right teams. As all of us know by now... it is all about the money. FOX and ESPN are dictating expansion... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. The right teams were needed to keep the networks happy... demonstrating this by bumping up their package. Teams/schools were not going to expand just to make less.

There are rumors the Big 12 would likely expand with possible BYU and Cincy additions.

However, talk of splitting to Division 4 with 5 superconferences is all the rage.

The Big 12 is fine. For now...

At least we are not Cincy, UConn or USF... on the outside... wanting in...

 

[bbwvfan]

And, in '07... KU's loss happened at the wrong time. They lost to Mizzou late and had no time to recover.

Just like today... many of the experts have predicted that an undefeated UofL could get locked out of a BCS game by a one-loss team from one of the Big 5.

Of course, we saw an undefeated Cincy team left out of the BCSNCG recently too. Undefeated UT from the Big 12 was #2 in the final BCS poll of '09.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

BB, I am not sold on the B12 being around long term. I see a management style that mirrors the BE management style, wanting things to stand pat, rather than being proactive. Right now, the B11, SEC, PAC, and ACC are behind the scenes planning on going to 16 teams, while the B12 is sitting there thinking that going back to 12 schools will make them split the money with two more. This is just my opinion, I see the PAC making a big grab for UT, OU, OSU, and TT, possibly on the same day, the B11 grabs IAST and one of the Kansas schools, the SEC and ACC will need four between them to get to 16 each, SOOOOO WVU, Baylor, TCU, the other Kansas school, and the former BE football schools Cinci, UConn, USF to vie for those spots. I would think that WVU would be the top choice and the best geographical fit for either the SEC or ACC, but we know Swofford HATES WVU. Yes, the BE is dead, but the B12 is in the hospital. AS to the BSC rankings, they are more based on the teams name than the league.... the year NW went undefeated, they were not in the championship conversation, nor was WF, or KU with one loss in 2007 as well. IF Ohio St goes undefeated out of the B11, they are in, if Iowa were to do the exact same, they would not be in without a LOT of help.

I'm with you there. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if the Big XII was out raiding everyone else too. College football is not a landscape to sit on your laurels. I don't believe Texas or OU are going anywhere due to third tier rights issues with other conferences. I find it more likely that some of the mid-tier programs may get drawn out, like Missouri and A&M were. I sure would feel better if there was a push to 12/14 teams. UofL would have been good, but they waited too long and the ACC stepped in.

Keep an eye on the B1G though. The ACC is their best source for AAU schools. They just raided Maryland from there and it'll be interesting to see where they go in the next round of expansion. Of the major conferences left standing the ACC has the smallest bank account. Their strength is in numbers and if that starts to dwindle because of the B1G and/or SEC they'll be Big East vulnerable.

 

[WVUDAD]

With the ACC signing their GOR this spring, I really dont see anyone else leaving them, the B12 missed their chance to raid the ACC by sitting and doing nothing, just like the BE did. IF I were Cinci, UConn, or USF, IF the tier 4 happens, I would be filing damage lawsuits against ESPN, the NCAA, and every one of the big leagues, It is infuriating to see good football programs left in the dust, while the Minnesota, Iowa, Vandy, IAST, etc of the world are given a free ticket for doing NOTHING!!!

 

[Mac_Bridger]

Well, the B1G is often reactive in expansion. They won't move until someone else does, but they can afford to, they have more money than even the SEC. Also, they did raid the ACC, taking Maryland.

Ummm... You do realize that UConn and USF have nothing more than glorified FCS programs now, right? Both can be traced to firing their head coaches.

 

[DCWV4life]

Ummm... You do realize that UConn and USF have nothing more than glorified FCS programs now, right? Both can be traced to firing their head coaches.

I always look at USF with interest, they are the biggest school in Florida and have a heck of a market...with a Big 12 or any other major conf title attached to it I think the interest in it may explode.....and if women get recruits to schools they have a arsenal of them....WOW!!!!

 

[WVUDAD]

Well, the B1G is often reactive in expansion. They won't move until someone else does, but they can afford to, they have more money than even the SEC. Also, they did raid the ACC, taking Maryland.

Ummm... You do realize that UConn and USF have nothing more than glorified FCS programs now, right? Both can be traced to firing their head coaches.

MAC, then what is Minnesota? What is Iowa? What is IAST? Vandy? Take away the welfare money they receive and none of those are even NAIA level. Both USF and UConn have more to offer than many other schools, USF is a HUGE school in a HUGE media market that can get recruits if they get the right coach. UConn did NOT fire their coach, he left to go to Maryland, leaving UConn in a bind. The B11 was the first to move in the last round, grabbing Maryland and Rutgers, then the ACC reacted by taking UL.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

Dad, bad phrasing on the coach thing. I tried to change it as I realize that Randy ran away from home to play with turtles. Site wouldn't let me.

Minnesota is bad and has been bad. They are also AAU accredited. Iowa is mediocre, much like WVU. They consistently win 6-9 games. Also AAU accredited. Iowa State has been on the vanguard of suckage. Vandy and their AAU status makes them the brains of the SEC. Maybe you should have said Kentucky, since even Vandy kicks their asses every year.

And the B1G's move was a tardy reaction to the ACC taking Pitt and Syracuse, followed by the SEC gobbling in the Aggies and Mizzou. That's when the B1G took Rutgers and Maryland. They did not move first.

 

[WVUDAD]

Dad, bad phrasing on the coach thing. I tried to change it as I realize that Randy ran away from home to play with turtles. Site wouldn't let me.

Minnesota is bad and has been bad. They are also AAU accredited. Iowa is mediocre, much like WVU. They consistently win 6-9 games. Also AAU accredited. Iowa State has been on the vanguard of suckage. Vandy and their AAU status makes them the brains of the SEC. Maybe you should have said Kentucky, since even Vandy kicks their asses every year.

And the B1G's move was a tardy reaction to the ACC taking Pitt and Syracuse, followed by the SEC gobbling in the Aggies and Mizzou. That's when the B1G took Rutgers and Maryland. They did not move first.

MAC, I gave UK and Duke a pass due to their contribution on the hardwood.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

But that thinking is what killed the Big East... (Among other poor decisions)

 

[WVUDAD]

Dad, bad phrasing on the coach thing. I tried to change it as I realize that Randy ran away from home to play with turtles. Site wouldn't let me.

Minnesota is bad and has been bad. They are also AAU accredited. Iowa is mediocre, much like WVU. They consistently win 6-9 games. Also AAU accredited. Iowa State has been on the vanguard of suckage. Vandy and their AAU status makes them the brains of the SEC. Maybe you should have said Kentucky, since even Vandy kicks their asses every year.

And the B1G's move was a tardy reaction to the ACC taking Pitt and Syracuse, followed by the SEC gobbling in the Aggies and Mizzou. That's when the B1G took Rutgers and Maryland. They did not move first.

MAC. I searched and read up on it, conference realignment has been going on for as long as there has been college sports. NCAA Division I conference realignment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, I did not realize just how much has changed over the years!!!

 

[WVUDAD]

But that thinking is what killed the Big East... (Among other poor decisions)

I think that sitting and doing nothing, saying eight teams is enough is what doomed the BE just as much as the basketball/football fighting did. I think that the B12 is making a HUGE mistake right now in sitting PAT at ten schools. ESPN wants there to be four 16 team leagues with no ties to the NCAA, and the B12 would be on the outside looking in right now.

 

[Mac_Bridger]

I think that sitting and doing nothing, saying eight teams is enough is what doomed the BE just as much as the basketball/football fighting did. I think that the B12 is making a HUGE mistake right now in sitting PAT at ten schools. ESPN wants there to be four 16 team leagues with no ties to the NCAA, and the B12 would be on the outside looking in right now.

I agree for the most part, but you forgot something. MONEY! The Big XII has the 3rd largest bankroll and the top per member payout of all conferences. (Per Forbes) So the ability and resources are there to go grab whoever they want. The thing I question is the will to do so.