KC....shot player or growing pains?

[Darrell Green Fan]

Low hanging fruit. Or are you finally admitting Rg3 was just a very good RB who happens to throw passes??

Hey I got a great idea: let's spend today beating each other over the head with the same arguments like we always do. Back and forth we go with neither budging. Sound like a good way to spend a Saturday?

Or I could just play golf.

 

[Sharkinva]

Hey I got a great idea: let's spend today beating each other over the head with the same arguments like we always do. Back and forth we go with neither budging. Sound like a good way to spend a Saturday?

Or I could just play golf.

Golf sounds good. Im actually working today, so Im stuck at the desk.

 

[KickSaveDave]

Dave... again I will put it as a very simple question. In your honest estimation. Would a young QB who has played in 13 games total be benched for Colt McCoy for having the same or similar play to Cousins?? In most cases the honest answer would be no. So whats different about this situation?? If we went off of what you are saying, full HALF of the multiple Super Bowl winning QBs would have been cut or benched within three years of hitting the field.

Yes, because as I said, benching a QB is not about who his backup is. Its about his own play and Cousins wasn't playing the position correctly. He was in fact getting worse. His backup could have been a 40 year old hanger on like old Steve DeBerg, or a younger later draft pick like a Gus Frerotte, or anyone else. A QB gets benched when he doesn't perform. Who the backup is should not factor into it. Also there is nothing especially different about Colt than about KC. 3rd vs 4th rounder. Both given a modest look, a dozen starts or so, and both failed to play well enough to remain a starter. If the situation was reversed, and Colt was the incumbent backup and KC was the newbie 3rd stringer, the decision to make the switch would still have been based on Colt's play, on its own.

And I completely disagree with your "half of multiple SB winning QB's" position. We could go down the list and see where they were after their 3rd years in the league, and none of them would have looked as bad as KC did recently.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yes, because as I said, benching a QB is not about who his backup is. Its about his own play and Cousins wasn't playing the position correctly. He was in fact getting worse. His backup could have been a 40 year old hanger on like old Steve DeBerg, or a younger later draft pick like a Gus Frerotte, or anyone else. A QB gets benched when he doesn't perform. Who the backup is should not factor into it. Also there is nothing especially different about Colt than about KC. 3rd vs 4th rounder. Both given a modest look, a dozen starts or so, and both failed to play well enough to remain a starter. If the situation was reversed, and Colt was the incumbent backup and KC was the newbie 3rd stringer, the decision to make the switch would still have been based on Colt's play, on its own.

And I completely disagree with your "half of multiple SB winning QB's" position. We could go down the list and see where they were after their 3rd years in the league, and none of them would have looked as bad as KC did recently.

Most of them had alot more game experience than 13 games by year three. You want to condemn Cousins for the INTs, thats fine. You want to pretend that every other coach in the NFL would have benched him as well, thats fine too. I have looked at the stats for most of the multiple Super Bowl winning QBs. And in fact I posted links for quite a few of them showing where they were early in their careers. But the idea that in most situations Cousins would have been benched in favor of Colt McCoy is laughable. IN fact if any one had said at the beginning of the season there waas a chance Colt McCoy would be starting by week 8, most would have assumed that RG3 and Cousins had both died in the same car crash for this to be a remote possibility.

McCoy is getting the start based on some desperation hope that he can pull of a win this week and be a stopgap until RG3 returns. If there was no hope of RG3 returning, there would be no point in starting McCoy.

 

[skinsdad62]

Most of them had alot more game experience than 13 games by year three. You want to condemn Cousins for the INTs, thats fine. You want to pretend that every other coach in the NFL would have benched him as well, thats fine too. I have looked at the stats for most of the multiple Super Bowl winning QBs. And in fact I posted links for quite a few of them showing where they were early in their careers. But the idea that in most situations Cousins would have been benched in favor of Colt McCoy is laughable. IN fact if any one had said at the beginning of the season there waas a chance Colt McCoy would be starting by week 8, most would have assumed that RG3 and Cousins had both died in the same car crash for this to be a remote possibility.

McCoy is getting the start based on some desperation hope that he can pull of a win this week and be a stopgap until RG3 returns. If there was no hope of RG3 returning, there would be no point in starting McCoy.

i wont condemn KC for the picks . he is just learning what his arm can do and learning reads

see i dont see the need to bash KC to make Rg3 look good . the truth is both need work in thier games

in the end i see both being useful

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Most of them had alot more game experience than 13 games by year three. You want to condemn Cousins for the INTs, thats fine. You want to pretend that every other coach in the NFL would have benched him as well, thats fine too. I have looked at the stats for most of the multiple Super Bowl winning QBs. And in fact I posted links for quite a few of them showing where they were early in their careers. But the idea that in most situations Cousins would have been benched in favor of Colt McCoy is laughable. IN fact if any one had said at the beginning of the season there waas a chance Colt McCoy would be starting by week 8, most would have assumed that RG3 and Cousins had both died in the same car crash for this to be a remote possibility.

McCoy is getting the start based on some desperation hope that he can pull of a win this week and be a stopgap until RG3 returns. If there was no hope of RG3 returning, there would be no point in starting McCoy.

Nobody agrees with you. Interesting......

 

[Sportster 72]

i wont condemn KC for the picks . he is just learning what his arm can do and learning reads

see i dont see the need to bash KC to make Rg3 look good . the truth is both need work in thier games

in the end i see both being useful

good post dad. Fans often want to make decisions on players without knowing all the facts and they want to make those decisions way too soon. How many years did Alex Smith play while being called a bust before he got a good coach and better talent around him. He isn't Peyton Manning but he wasn't as bad as some thought.

 

[Sharkinva]

Nobody agrees with you. Interesting......

When you are saying something that goes against the popular line of thinking, you dont expect the lemmings to agree with you. And Im ok with that.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

One way to look at it I guess. Of course I could claim that Honey Boo Boo is the greatest show in TV history that is full of incredible dialog that forces its viewers to really think about important issues. Then I could claim that just because nobody believes this does not mean that I am wrong.

Back to Cousins that early swing pass he threw, Hell it was so long ago I can't remember who it went to but it was a fantastic play that went for big yards. That was as good a play as a QB can make. It's plays like that tha thsould give anyone hope that he can develop into a decent player. Starter on a playoff team? I don't see it. But I'd love to hang on to him as a backup.

 

[Sharkinva]

The difference between your Honey Boo Boo comment and everything I have said I have explained the reasoning behind it. You might not agree with the reasoning. And you have assured yourself that my reasoning stems from my hate of Rg3. But the reality is, if you looked at it objectively everything i have said is not only plausible, but very possible with this organization.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

The difference between your Honey Boo Boo comment and everything I have said I have explained the reasoning behind it. You might not agree with the reasoning. And you have assured yourself that my reasoning stems from my hate of Rg3. But the reality is, if you looked at it objectively everything i have said is not only plausible, but very possible with this organization.

And I could defend my Honey Boo Boo comment with reasoning that makes as much sense as yours does. You aren't objective about this topic, that's beyond dispute at this point, so I'm not feeling your "objectively" comment. I highly doubt neutral fans would agree with you that having an injured QB who we all agree still has things to prove on the sidelines had anything to do with replacing a QB who was giving away games with turnovers.

 

[Sharkinva]

And I could defend my Honey Boo Boo comment with reasoning that makes as much sense as yours does. You aren't objective about this topic, that's beyond dispute at this point, so I'm not feeling your "objectively" comment. I highly doubt neutral fans would agree with you that having an injured QB who we all agree still has things to prove on the sidelines had anything to do with replacing a QB who was giving away games with turnovers.

And I could say you have zero objectivity in this because you are a defender of Griffin and feel that any slight towards him must be defended. Very little if any thing is or was his fault. And thus in no way could his presence on the roster have had any impact at all in benching Cousins in favor of Colt McCoy. At least in your eyes.

 

[j_y19]

And I could say you have zero objectivity in this because you are a defender of Griffin and feel that any slight towards him must be defended. Very little if any thing is or was his fault. And thus in no way could his presence on the roster have had any impact at all in benching Cousins in favor of Colt McCoy. At least in your eyes.

Don't mean to inject myself into this so late, but are you saying rG3 was at fault for the benching on KC?

 

[Sharkinva]

Don't mean to inject myself into this so late, but are you saying rG3 was at fault for the benching on KC?

NO. But I am saying that his presence on the roster and his expected return likely played a role, if even a small one, in the decision to bench Cousins in favor of McCoy. I do believe that if Rg3 wasnt on the roster and expected to return, we would ride out the season with Kirk to try and determine IF he can get over his turn over issues.

So was Rg3 directly responsible?? Not at all. But did his presence on the roster and his expected return play into the decision to bench Cousins in favor of McCoy?? I think it did to some degree.

 

[skinsdad62]

NO. But I am saying that his presence on the roster and his expected return likely played a role, if even a small one, in the decision to bench Cousins in favor of McCoy. I do believe that if Rg3 wasnt on the roster and expected to return, we would ride out the season with Kirk to try and determine IF he can get over his turn over issues.

So was Rg3 directly responsible?? Not at all. But did his presence on the roster and his expected return play into the decision to bench Cousins in favor of McCoy?? I think it did to some degree.

i am not sure that matters does it ? i dont think KC should be benched . the more snaps he gets the better however the HC has to make a run at it

 

[Sharkinva]

i am not sure that matters does it ? i dont think KC should be benched . the more snaps he gets the better however the HC has to make a run at it

Actually I think it plays a rather larger role. We are still directionless as far as the offense. What the coach would prefer to do doesnt suite the QB that the owner, Gm and fan base would prefer to see on the field. As i stated before, Kirk would have had to come in and play like a 5th year starter in order to even be considered as the starter going forward. the fact that he played like a 1st to 2nd year starter on a bad team leaves us right where we were week 1. Only now we are 2-5 to boot.

 

[skinsdad62]

Actually I think it plays a rather larger role. We are still directionless as far as the offense. What the coach would prefer to do doesnt suite the QB that the owner, Gm and fan base would prefer to see on the field. As i stated before, Kirk would have had to come in and play like a 5th year starter in order to even be considered as the starter going forward. the fact that he played like a 1st to 2nd year starter on a bad team leaves us right where we were week 1. Only now we are 2-5 to boot.

i think most of us said if he won some games he would keep the job . he didnt and ultimately that is why he was benched

i think gruden feels safer with mccoy in there .

 

[Sharkinva]

i think most of us said if he won some games he would keep the job . he didnt and ultimately that is why he was benched

i think gruden feels safer with mccoy in there .

Normally i would agree with this. But truth is, he would have had to play well above his experience level in order to take the starting job for good and we all know it. Again I think that while many say I hold RG3 to too high a standard, its that too high a standard Kirk was expected to reach to even have a shot. To me he played like a guy with less than 10 starts under his belt. And it showed. But I honestly think that if the team didnt already have another direction in mind ( and no that direction is NOT Colt McCoy), then we would still be trying to work things with Kirk.

 

[skinsdad62]

Normally i would agree with this. But truth is, he would have had to play well above his experience level in order to take the starting job for good and we all know it. Again I think that while many say I hold RG3 to too high a standard, its that too high a standard Kirk was expected to reach to even have a shot. To me he played like a guy with less than 10 starts under his belt. And it showed. But I honestly think that if the team didnt already have another direction in mind ( and no that direction is NOT Colt McCoy), then we would still be trying to work things with Kirk.

i dont see it that way . if KC won some games and we were in contention then KC would have to be the starter .

gruden doesnt have a horse in this race . he had nothing to do with the deal . now i know people will pull a snyder out of his ass but so far it seems snyder has stayed away from calling the shots . i have seen no evidence that he has

the bottom line was KC was losing football games and he didnt take the job . he didnt do it last season and he didnt do it this season

somewhere , sometime he has to seize it . now when Rg3 comes in he will have to seize it back

this o/line doesnt help any of our qbs either

 

[Sharkinva]

i dont see it that way . if KC won some games and we were in contention then KC would have to be the starter .

gruden doesnt have a horse in this race . he had nothing to do with the deal . now i know people will pull a snyder out of his ass but so far it seems snyder has stayed away from calling the shots . i have seen no evidence that he has

the bottom line was KC was losing football games and he didnt take the job . he didnt do it last season and he didnt do it this season

somewhere , sometime he has to seize it . now when Rg3 comes in he will have to seize it back

this o/line doesnt help any of our qbs either

Skinsdad.. we both know that just because some one is not out in the open with the moves they are making does not mean that ultimately they are not pulling the strings.

Secondly I do agree Kirk needed to take the job in order to hold it. But lets be honest, RG3 has never had to take the job because it was handed to him the moment he was picked. He has never had to compete for the job because it has been widely known that its his job and it would take some one performing at a very high level for him to lose it.

As far as Rg3 having to seize the job at this point, if we are honest we both know that the only reason he wont be on the field is injury. He could come back and we could lose out horrendously and he will still be the starter next year. And while I dont think he deserves the 5th year option to be picked up, would you really be surprised when we do in fact pick it up?