KC....shot player or growing pains?

[Darrell Green Fan]

I get your position, if the team had considered Kirk Cousins their future they would have allowed him to continue to play through his growing pains. But that's never been the case here. He has always been a backup and we are seeing why. Now you can spin that to put it on the fact that Griffn is waiting in the wings but that's just spin. The truth is Cousins has never earned the right to compete for the starting job and most coaches would not allow their team's chance to win constantly derailed by one guy and his mistakes.

 

[KickSaveDave]

I think its clear, if KC had played well, passing properly, making good decisions, avoiding turnovers, and winning games, he'd have a real good shot to stick as the starter even after Griff comes back. But he didn't do that. He turned the ball over more than any other QB in the league and we lost games because of it. He had his shot, he blew it. Him being benched was the final straw in him playing his way out of a starting gig in the NFL. He literally got worse every game he played.

 

[Sharkinva]

I think its clear, if KC had played well, passing properly, making good decisions, avoiding turnovers, and winning games, he'd have a real good shot to stick as the starter even after Griff comes back. But he didn't do that. He turned the ball over more than any other QB in the league and we lost games because of it. He had his shot, he blew it. Him being benched was the final straw in him playing his way out of a starting gig in the NFL. He literally got worse every game he played.

Name me another 4th round QB who ANYONE would put these strictures on in ANY other situation?? Much less a guy who to this point has played in a total of 13 games. Aside from the turnovers Cousins has played well. He passes for almost 300 yards a game, puts up points and moves tha ball. If we are going to say you cant hold RG3 totally responsible for the 10 games we lost last year with him as the starter, you would have to use the same logic for Cousins and the 4 games we have lost with him as a starter this year. Im willing to admit his turnovers likely have more to do with him being benched at this point. But you also have to admit that in likely any other situation, a young QB who is moving the team, and putting up points would not be benched for a journeyman QB after 5 starts. In any other situation the focus would be on getting Kirk to reduce or eliminate the turnovers at this point. And the only realistic reason to give up on Kirk at this point is if you think you might have a better option in the wings. And i think we all can agree that Colt McCoy is NOT the guy you bench a young QB for in any situation.

 

[KickSaveDave]

Name me another 4th round QB who ANYONE would put these strictures on in ANY other situation?? Much less a guy who to this point has played in a total of 13 games. Aside from the turnovers Cousins has played well. He passes for almost 300 yards a game, puts up points and moves tha ball. If we are going to say you cant hold RG3 totally responsible for the 10 games we lost last year with him as the starter, you would have to use the same logic for Cousins and the 4 games we have lost with him as a starter this year. Im willing to admit his turnovers likely have more to do with him being benched at this point. But you also have to admit that in likely any other situation, a young QB who is moving the team, and putting up points would not be benched for a journeyman QB after 5 starts. In any other situation the focus would be on getting Kirk to reduce or eliminate the turnovers at this point. And the only realistic reason to give up on Kirk at this point is if you think you might have a better option in the wings. And i think we all can agree that Colt McCoy is NOT the guy you bench a young QB for in any situation.

Two things: "Aside from the turnovers, Norv Turner was a great coach" would have been equally as valid as Kirk Cousins "playing well aside from turnovers". The fact that he turned the ball over meant he was NOT playing well. Not making the right reads or throws, and not winning games.

As far as him being a 4th rounder, if this was his rookie year and we tabbed him to be our starter, then he would be graded differently, based more on development than on results. But this is his 3rd season, and he's been given a chance to show he should be a starter, if not for us, for anyone else. He failed completely to show he deserves to start in the NFL. He got worse from season to season and game to game. He failed to develop. He's not a starter in the NFL right now.

The reason you bench a guy is not because of who his backup is. You bench him because he's not playing the position correctly. Gruden even said his interception vs Tenn was one of the worst reads ever, that he practiced that play and read and did it right then completely botched it in the game. Thats why he's on the bench, he wasn't playing properly... not because Colt is our future or any other reason. Colt is a stopgap til RGIII comes back. KC has his chance. He blew it.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

What does being a 4th rounder have to do with anything other than fuel the argument that he didn't have the goods from the very beginning? The market has spoken, last off season when any number of teams in need of a QB had the chance to make a deal for him. Nobody bit because they saw what a lot of us saw last year. Then he comes in this year with a golden opportunity, just as he did at the end of last year, to show the world that he was in fact a starting NFL QB and once again he shit the bed. Now every one of those teams that needed a QB is glad they didn't invest in Kirk Cousins.

There isn't an argument to be made that his benching was undeserved or related in any way to the fact that the team has Griffin. Kirk Cousins would be sitting on the bench for every NFL team this week due to his play, nothing more.

 

[Sharkinva]

Dave... again I will put it as a very simple question. In your honest estimation. Would a young QB who has played in 13 games total be benched for Colt McCoy for having the same or similar play to Cousins?? In most cases the honest answer would be no. So whats different about this situation?? If we went off of what you are saying, full HALF of the multiple Super Bowl winning QBs would have been cut or benched within three years of hitting the field.

 

[Sharkinva]

What does being a 4th rounder have to do with anything other than fuel the argument that he didn't have the goods from the very beginning of his NFL career? The market has spoken, last offseason when any number of teams in need of a QB had the chance to make a deal for him. Nobody bit, then he proceeded to play even worse this year and every one of those teams are glad they didn't invest in Kirk Cousins. There isn't an argument to be made that his benching was undeserved or to put any of this on the fact that they have Griffin. With or without Griffin Kirk Cousins would be sitting on the bench for every NFL team this week.

Like i said dude, based off of that kind of logic, fully half of the multiple super bowl winning QBs would have been out of the league by year three. Fine forget that he was a 4th rounder, forget that he has only played 13 games total. If you really LOOK at the history of the position, and where MOST of the "good to great" Qbs were in terms of performance and turn overs early in their career, you would realize that most teams actually DONT give up on guys after 5-8 games started, even when they are turn over machines and the team is losing. Then you ask yourself whats really different in our situation.


You obviously just dont want to accept the answer. But its ok, I fully understand.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Dave... again I will put it as a very simple question. In your honest estimation. Would a young QB who has played in 13 games total be benched for Colt McCoy for having the same or similar play to Cousins?? In most cases the honest answer would be no. So whats different about this situation?? If we went off of what you are saying, full HALF of the multiple Super Bowl winning QBs would have been cut or benched within three years of hitting the field.

The QBs you keep referring to were mostly very high draft picks, QBs with a lot of upside (your favorite word). Teams give QBs like that a longer leash than mid round or FA QBs because they feel they have much more talent and have a better chance to be good. That is obvious and there is nothing unfair about it.

Kirk Cousins is not in that position. He is a marginal prospect much like all middle round QBs. So naturally he will not get the same leash as a John Elway. Do you honestly believe that Nick Foles would have been given the leash you are proposing Kirk get if he had this many turnovers last year? Or Tony Romo when he first came in? Not a chance, both would have been put on the bench for the next guy in line in both instances.

So I guess that answers your question. Yes I believe every young marginal QB would be say down after the turnovers that Cousins committed over and over again.

 

[Sharkinva]

The QBs you keep referring to were mostly very high draft picks, QBs with a lot of upside (your favorite word). Teams give QBs like that a longer leash than mid round or FA QBs because they feel they have much more talent and have a better chance to be good. That is obvious and there is nothing unfair about it.

Kirk Cousins is not in that position. He is a marginal prospect much like all middle round QBs. So naturally he will not get the same leash as a John Elway. Do you honestly believe that Nick Foles would have been given the leash you are proposing Kirk get if he had this many turnovers last year? Or Tony Romo when he first came in? Not a chance, both would have been put on the bench for the next guy in line in both instances.

So I guess that answers your question. Yes I believe every young marginal QB would be say down after the turnovers that Cousins committed over and over again.

DG... actually UPSIDE, Potential and ceiling are my least favorite buzz words. Because they are used to justify keeping guys around who arent getting it done, but if they could just get it together, people feel they could be something special. In fact, I think more often than not those words are used to bolster the value of seriously flawed players in most cases. But I get it, we are more willing to give a longer leash to a higher draft pick based on inflated buzz word values. thanks for the clarification.


And by the way, you still ducked the question. If Rg3 were not on the roster, do you seriously think Cousins would be benched for Colt McCoy for any reason other than Injury?? Deep down you know Im right, and the coaches would be singing the tune of we have to try and keep Kirk out of those situations.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

DG... actually UPSIDE, Potential and ceiling are my least favorite buzz words. Because they are used to justify keeping guys around who arent getting it done, but if they could just get it together, people feel they could be something special. In fact, I think more often than not those words are used to bolster the value of seriously flawed players in most cases. But I get it, we are more willing to give a longer leash to a higher draft pick based on inflated buzz word values. thanks for the clarification.


And by the way, you still ducked the question. If Rg3 were not on the roster, do you seriously think Cousins would be benched for Colt McCoy for any reason other than Injury?? Deep down you know Im right, and the coaches would be singing the tune of we have to try and keep Kirk out of those situations.

I thought I answered it. Twice actually. My answer is yes, absolutely I believe he would have been benched in every city in the NFL. Coaches do not last long keeping in players who are costing his team games. And Gruden was rewarded as Colt pulled out a win in the 4th quarter, something Cousins has yet to prove he can do despite several opportunities.

 

[Sharkinva]

I thought I answered it. Twice actually. My answer is yes, absolutely I believe he would have been benched in every city in the NFL. Coaches do not last long keeping in players who are costing his team games. And Gruden was rewarded as Colt pulled out a win in the 4th quarter, something Cousins has yet to prove he can do despite several opportunities.

So then your assessment is that Jeff Fischer, and a host of other coaches should be fired?? I have shown you the players that prove that line of thinking suspect at best. I have also pointed out why I think the prospect of Rg3 coming back and the hope that some how McCoy can pull out a win this week has more to do with Cousins being benched than his TD/INT ratio.

But you know I give. Hopefully it all works out since we just benched Cousins for a shorter version of himself.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

DG... actually UPSIDE, Potential and ceiling are my least favorite buzz words. Because they are used to justify keeping guys around who arent getting it done, but if they could just get it together, people feel they could be something special. In fact, I think more often than not those words are used to bolster the value of seriously flawed players in most cases. But I get it, we are more willing to give a longer leash to a higher draft pick based on inflated buzz word values. thanks for the clarification.


And by the way, you still ducked the question. If Rg3 were not on the roster, do you seriously think Cousins would be benched for Colt McCoy for any reason other than Injury?? Deep down you know Im right, and the coaches would be singing the tune of we have to try and keep Kirk out of those situations.

As for the first part of this post the QB examples you keep using are all examples of highly rated players with upside. Teams were patient with these players and their patience was rewarded. That is the exact formula I am proposing we use for Griffin. If those teams had not looked at the upside and gone with your strategy they would have benched Troy Aikman and gone with Steve Walsh benched Peyton and gone with Tim Hauk (had to look that one up).

You act as if giving a top pick more chances than a marginal prospect is some crazy notion when it's not. It makes all the sense in the world

 

[Sharkinva]

As for the first part of this post the QB examples you keep using are all examples of highly rated players with upside. Teams were patient with these players and their patience was rewarded. That is the exact formula I am proposing we use for Griffin. If those teams had not looked at the upside and gone with your strategy they would have benched Troy Aikman and gone with Steve Walsh benched Peyton and gone with Tim Hauk (had to look that one up).

You act as if giving a top pick more chances than a marginal prospect is some crazy notion when it's not. It makes all the sense in the world

I act as if Im used to this team and fan base betting on the wrong horse more often than not. And in this particular instance I thought from day one it would be a spectacular failure of history making proportions. My bet is, 20 years from now when teams are considering trading up for a QB, the term getting Griffin'd will be common place.

 

[skinsdad62]

my honest opinion is the o/line sucks causing both qbs issues that manifest itself differently

i also believe we should have started KC vs dallas and if he struggles then bring in colt

KC succeeds when he is good at pre snap . the more stuff he sees the better he will be

my beef with colt is he doesnt drive the ball deep . most of the rest of his game i like but he is a BU type guy

 

[Stymietee]

my honest opinion is the o/line sucks causing both qbs issues that manifest itself differently

i also believe we should have started KC vs dallas and if he struggles then bring in colt

KC succeeds when he is good at pre snap . the more stuff he sees the better he will be

my beef with colt is he doesnt drive the ball deep . most of the rest of his game i like but he is a BU type guy

Dad, I'm so surprised that many here just don't get it. Great offensive and defensive lines are the keys to victory, now, in the past and until the end of time. They look at Dallas and note that they arguably could have the very best offensive line in the business, yet as fans of this team can't or won't make the connection! I remember when there was just the two of us insisting to almost anyone who would listen that our OL need upgrades, some are coming around to understanding this while others still look elsewhere for answers.

On your second point, I had a premonition when J. Gruden named C. McCoy starter for Monday and that is, we will see KC in this game. I'm not sure how that manifests itself but I'm trusting my instincts.

 

[skinsdad62]

people get strung out by the (franchise qb )

the LOS is the most important

imagine what our young qbs could do with a clean pocket

 

[Sharkinva]

people get strung out by the (franchise qb )

the LOS is the most important

imagine what our young qbs could do with a clean pocket

You mean the one's who actually work from within the pocket right??

Sorry, couldnt resist.

 

[Stymietee]

You mean the one's who actually work from within the pocket right??

Sorry, couldnt resist.

Yep......that 3-0 fastball down the middle of the plate is extremely hard to resist!

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Dad, I'm so surprised that many here just don't get it. Great offensive and defensive lines are the keys to victory, now, in the past and until the end of time. They look at Dallas and note that they arguably could have the very best offensive line in the business, yet as fans of this team can't or won't make the connection! I remember when there was just the two of us insisting to almost anyone who would listen that our OL need upgrades, some are coming around to understanding this while others still look elsewhere for answers.

On your second point, I had a premonition when J. Gruden named C. McCoy starter for Monday and that is, we will see KC in this game. I'm not sure how that manifests itself but I'm trusting my instincts.

I am really surprised to read that you 2 were the few critical of the OL heere. Polumbus has been a whipping boy in DC for a while, at KFFL we have been complaining for years about the OL Nobody thought it was any good, it was the only subject that we all agreed on. It seemed pretty clear to most fans that this OL was built to run the stretch and that was it.

Funny how Robert Griffin was able to take that very same OL to the playoffs. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Sharkinva]

I am really surprised to read that you 2 were the few critical of the OL heere. Polumbus has been a whipping boy in DC for a while, at KFFL we have been complaining for years about the OL Nobody thought it was any good, it was the only subject that we all agreed on. It seemed pretty clear to most fans that this OL was built to run the stretch and that was it.

Funny how Robert Griffin was able to take that very same OL to the playoffs. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Low hanging fruit. Or are you finally admitting Rg3 was just a very good RB who happens to throw passes??