Kareem: Dirk is a 1 trick pony

[Clayton]

Hence, Kareem not being a 1 trick pony while Dirk is.

Its a pretty good trick. If Dirk was drafted by the Spurs or Lakers, he'd have like 4 rings by now

 

[trojanfan12]

Its a pretty good trick. If Dirk was drafted by the Spurs or Lakers, he'd have like 4 rings by now

No doubt. It's a hall of fame level trick, but it's still one trick. Had he concentrated a bit more on things like defense and rebounds, he'd be ranked higher among all-time greats. Which was Kareem's point.

And I love Dirk's game. He's been one of my favorite players to watch for years, but Kareem was correct in his assessment.

 

[fordman84]

I absolutely agree it's in poor taste of Kareem to state this but he has a point in a way. Take away Dirks fantastic shooting and nobody would have heard of him!

lel, and if Shaq were 6'1" no one would have heard of him either.

 

[fordman84]

No doubt. It's a hall of fame level trick, but it's still one trick. Had he concentrated a bit more on things like defense and rebounds, he'd be ranked higher among all-time greats. Which was Kareem's point.

And I love Dirk's game. He's been one of my favorite players to watch for years, but Kareem was correct in his assessment.

My dad says Kareem didn't work hard enough on defense.

 

[trojanfan12]

My dad says Kareem didn't work hard enough on defense.

Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes.

 

[Clayton]

No doubt. It's a hall of fame level trick, but it's still one trick. Had he concentrated a bit more on things like defense and rebounds, he'd be ranked higher among all-time greats. Which was Kareem's point.

Thats so bizarre to me because as a nation we pride specialists and I feel like you're locking out the majority of the world's population. In order to be an elite scorer, defender and rebounder then you have a win an almost impossibly slim genetic lottery that no Hispanic, Caucasian or Asian is ever going to reach. And honestly over time, the odds of an increasingly mixed African-American population hitting that mark is increasingly slim as well. You'll likely just be locking the door the throwing away the key when it comes to GOAT big men lists.

 

[fordman84]

Thats so bizarre to me because as a nation we pride specialists and I feel like you're locking out the majority of the world's population. In order to be an elite scorer, defender and rebounder then you have a win an almost impossibly slim genetic lottery that no Hispanic, Caucasian or Asian is ever going to reach. And honestly over time, the odds of an increasingly mixed African-American population hitting that mark is increasingly slim as well. You'll likely just be locking the door the throwing away the key when it comes to GOAT big men lists.

My son already hit that genetic lotto. One day you will see him anchoring the paint for the Mavs as he shoves people around with his 7' frame. Just need to feed him sticks of butter because he will weigh about 150 pounds soaking wet until he gets a desk job.

 

[LAD]

Thats so bizarre to me because as a nation we pride specialists and I feel like you're locking out the majority of the world's population. In order to be an elite scorer, defender and rebounder then you have a win an almost impossibly slim genetic lottery that no Hispanic, Caucasian or Asian is ever going to reach. And honestly over time, the odds of an increasingly mixed African-American population hitting that mark is increasingly slim as well. You'll likely just be locking the door the throwing away the key when it comes to GOAT big men lists.

What is with you and this subject being racially tied together?

 

[Clayton]

What is with you and this subject being racially tied together?

Because it is in this specific conversation. The optics on white players are different. Most of them suck at defense or are 'soft' and get called out because the media pays to much attention to them because the majority of Americans are white. In Bird's case, his body didn't hold up long enough for real legend consideration but people still give him a pass because he was on a great team.

Basically its Kareem saying that Dirk's D was soft and the 3pt shot really shouldn't matter all that much. Its actually not too terribly different than the conversation thats currently going on with Curry being ranked up with the greats.

Its also nostalgia. The quality of the game now is much better than it has ever been in every way except the big man. To a certain degree, the big man who does everything is getting left behind and has been left behind for awhile. How are people's rankings going to reflect that moving forward?

 

[fordman84]

Because it is in this specific conversation. The optics on white players are different. Most of them suck at defense or are 'soft' and get called out because the media pays to much attention to them because the majority of Americans are white. In Bird's case, his body didn't hold up long enough for real legend consideration but people still give him a pass because he was on a great team.

Basically its Kareem saying that Dirk's D was soft and the 3pt shot really shouldn't matter all that much. Its actually not too terribly different than the conversation thats currently going on with Curry being ranked up with the greats.

Its also nostalgia. The quality of the game now is much better than it has ever been in every way except the big man. To a certain degree, the big man who does everything is getting left behind and has been left behind for awhile. How are people's rankings going to reflect that moving forward?

honestly if Dirk played in Kareems era then he too would have dominated. Dirk has fast hands and is good at stripping the ball. He isn't good at stopping a driving player. He can get a hand in a jump shooters face, there were more jump shooters in Kareems day.

Different era's. I don't disagree that Dirk is one dimensional. However we have hardly seen anyone near that same level of that one dimension Dirk has.

 

[Vitamike]

Kareem's high

Probably could of stopped your sentence here tducey.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Thats so bizarre to me because as a nation we pride specialists and I feel like you're locking out the majority of the world's population. In order to be an elite scorer, defender and rebounder then you have a win an almost impossibly slim genetic lottery that no Hispanic, Caucasian or Asian is ever going to reach. And honestly over time, the odds of an increasingly mixed African-American population hitting that mark is increasingly slim as well. You'll likely just be locking the door the throwing away the key when it comes to GOAT big men lists.

Ummmm, Blake Griffin, Aaron Gordon, Zach Lavine all biracial...all athletic freaks.

I won't be naive and pretend that there isn't any truth to the thought that certain races tend to have superior skill in a particular sport.

But, it's not just the Nba.

Hockey, Soccer, Mlb, Tennis and golf are pretty slanted too.

Some of it is genetics. But, some of it has to do with cultivating skill.

There were not any soccer fields or ice rinks in the hood when I was growing up.

So, you either played Basketball or you fought all day.

Guys and gals are way for athletic these days than in the past because our bodies have changed to handle the rigors of our chosen sports.

Evolution at its finest.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

honestly if Dirk played in Kareems era then he too would have dominated. Dirk has fast hands and is good at stripping the ball. He isn't good at stopping a driving player. He can get a hand in a jump shooters face, there were more jump shooters in Kareems day.

Different era's. I don't disagree that Dirk is one dimensional. However we have hardly seen anyone near that same level of that one dimension Dirk has.

I'm Team Dirk. But, I disagree.

Had Dr. J clocked Dirk , like he did Bird, your boy would have been on the first thing smoking back to Berlin.

Not saying Dirk is a bitch. But, you had to be tough to play n those days and Dirk is....how should I put this?


A finesse guy?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

"ABDUL-JABBAR: You asked about Dirk Nowitzki. Dirk Nowitzki's shot is very hard to block, but I don't think that he was able to have a dominant career because he couldn't do other things. If he could have shot like that and rebounded and played defense and blocked shots, then he would have been all-around, and he would have gotten more credit. He was like a one-trick pony.You want guys that can shoot like that on your team. I'm not saying that he lacked value, but he would have been considered at a higher level if he had done more on the court other than just shoot the ball."


Alright, so lets unpack this. The big elephant in the room here is that Kareem played in a different era than Dirk. The 3pt shot is a very big deal. Dirk being a volume 3 pt shooter of his size at almost 40% for his career is massive. The stretch 4 allows other players to do well. Being able to do a transition 3 pt shot...thats really hard to defend. Dirk was also getting 9-10 rebounds per game in his prime. Not elite but not scrubby. Dirk led the league in Win Shares twice, PER once and Win Shares per 48 minutes 3 times. You dont do that if you're a one trick pony. Dirk made the playoffs 14 times. Never got traded to another team to join up with superstars. Had his championship team immediately disassembled. Made it to the Finals once with some scrubs and still won 2 games against DWade and Shaq.

Dirk is a top 30 player of all time. Kareem is top 3 so him talking trash on anyone is probably really easy to do.

Kareem is wrong about one thing: Dirk had a dominant career.

One trick is a little strong, but I'm going to lean more in Kareem's corner on this. There were tall jump shooters in his era (Bob McAdoo, Jack Sikma...a few more)...Dirk is better than any of them imo, but the lack of DEF, and rebounding when it matters hurts Dirk from an all around game standpoint. If we're being honest...Dirk is a specialty player...I don't think it's a slight.

 

[Clayton]

Evolution at its finest.

Not just evolution but co-evolution. Every year, competition makes the association better. Every year there are more people in the world growing up with the possibility of playing in the NBA. All of these players can go back and look at what other players have done and add it to their 'game'.

I think if Dirk had a time machine and went back to Kareem's era, he could score 100 if there was a 3pt line. What you have to do is judge each player relative to their era or else all of the GOATs would be playing today imo.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

lel, and if Shaq were 6'1" no one would have heard of him either.

Two completely different things.

 

[Vitamike]

I think if Dirk had a time machine and went back to Kareem's era, he could score 100 if there was a 3pt line.

 

[fordman84]

Two completely different things.

not in the slightest. You say that taking away the major advantage Dirk has would mean no one heard of him. Same goes true for Shaq. He can have all the other traits that made him great, but size was the thing that set him apart. Dirk is the same. He can be 7' all day long but take away his ability to shoot and he is nothing.

Just because you don't understand the conversation doesn't mean you need to be announcing it to everyone with facepalms and generic "not the same thing" statements without any backing of your claim.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

not in the slightest. You say that taking away the major advantage Dirk has would mean no one heard of him. Same goes true for Shaq. He can have all the other traits that made him great, but size was the thing that set him apart. Dirk is the same. He can be 7' all day long but take away his ability to shoot and he is nothing.

Just because you don't understand the conversation doesn't mean you need to be announcing it to everyone with facepalms and generic "not the same thing" statements without any backing of your claim.

So now physical attributes are the same as skill sets?

Take away Dirks shooting and he never even makes the NBA - which is exactly what Kareem is saying.

Take aways Shaqs size and for all we know he becomes an all-star PG.

So how is that the same?

 

[LAD]

Because it is in this specific conversation. The optics on white players are different. Most of them suck at defense or are 'soft' and get called out because the media pays to much attention to them because the majority of Americans are white. In Bird's case, his body didn't hold up long enough for real legend consideration but people still give him a pass because he was on a great team.

Basically its Kareem saying that Dirk's D was soft and the 3pt shot really shouldn't matter all that much. Its actually not too terribly different than the conversation thats currently going on with Curry being ranked up with the greats.

Its also nostalgia. The quality of the game now is much better than it has ever been in every way except the big man. To a certain degree, the big man who does everything is getting left behind and has been left behind for awhile. How are people's rankings going to reflect that moving forward?

My point was it actually wan't part of the conversation until I was accused of suggesting that-which wasn't my suggestion at all.