Justin Smith

[Crimsoncrew]

Cap space rolls over. It's not a compelling reason to want to see him walk, but it's a factor.

I don't disagree with the pro-Tomsula argument, per se, but Tomsula should have a lot more support in the locker room than most new HCs. He's been with this organization for years. All the guys except the rookies know him, and five of the DL who should be staples have played under him for several years. I hate to see Justin go, but it does make sense. We're unlikely to be competitive next year. We should be trying to move away from older players where possible.

Oh, and in terms of who we're signing:

Aldon should be extended. We may want to extend Boone (not confident this will happen). We may want to extend Boldin, who I would put in the same boat as Smith except we haven't been grooming talent at the position. We'll need to re-sign or replace Vernon. Michael Wilhoite may get an extension. And then there are the guys who will be FAs in 2017 who we may want to extend now.

 

[dredinis21]

Cap space rolls over. It's not a compelling reason to want to see him walk, but it's a factor.

I don't disagree with the pro-Tomsula argument, per se, but Tomsula should have a lot more support in the locker room than most new HCs. He's been with this organization for years. All the guys except the rookies know him, and five of the DL who should be staples have played under him for several years. I hate to see Justin go, but it does make sense. We're unlikely to be competitive next year. We should be trying to move away from older players where possible.

Dorsey, Williams, Tank, Dial, Jerod-Eddie aren't exactly veteran leaders.

 

[deep9er]

Dockett, Smith, Armstead, Tank, Dial, Dorsey, Williams

There is my 7. Dial swings to emergency NT, but otherwise in a DE rotation.

ok, so in your scenario we lose Jerrod-Eddie, Ramsey, and Okoye. This wouldn't be a disaster, but if a "lost season" is say a 7-9 record, what did keeping Justin do for us?

again, don't think we keep seven on opening day, so you MIGHT have to remove another DL? Since you said Dial swings to NT, my guess is you'd remove Williams?

 

[deep9er]

What cap room do you need? Who are we signing? He's off the books next season anyways. Considering the upheaval that just occurred with the roster, we need as many pro-Tomsula veterans on board that can set the tone for the rest of the season and beyond and Justin Smith commands respect across the league and adds validity to what Tomsula is trying to accomplish. This goes beyond his play in the field.

you could use it to extend a vet player or two, front load it a little bit.

with all the 'upheaval', why wouldn't Jerrod Eddie, Ramsey, and Okoye be Pro Tomsula too? all three have been with Tomsula.

 

[deep9er]

Who do you cut? Both with and without Smith.

hey, this is MY question, why are you asking it of me?

 

[deep9er]

Dorsey, Williams, Tank, Dial, Jerod-Eddie aren't exactly veteran leaders.

how do you know?

in any case, Justin Smith isn't known to be a rah rah guy either.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

hey, this is MY question, why are you asking it of me?

If Smith leaves, six is possible with jerod-Eddie leaving. If Smith stays, I can't see who we cut. Dockett, Armstead, Carradine, and Dial all virtually assured a spot. That's five DEs. I just can't see us cutting either Dorsey or Williams. This is without injury. So deep, take a stand here. No one cares if you're wrong, but who doesn't stick?

 

[deep9er]

If Smith leaves, six is possible with jerod-Eddie leaving. If Smith stays, I can't see who we cut. Dockett, Armstead, Carradine, and Dial all virtually assured a spot. That's five DEs. I just can't see us cutting either Dorsey or Williams. This is without injury. So deep, take a stand here. No one cares if you're wrong, but who doesn't stick?

i did take a stand, read my first post. Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not (not likely), but you've been repeating my opinion all thread. So don't really get the above post?

i asked this question of others who want Justin to remain. The point being maybe THEY need to see actual names? Anyway, to answer the question, i see us keeping six DL to start the season.

Justin Smith
Dockett
Carradine
Dial
Armstead
Dorsey

i chose Dorsey over Williams at NT, partly due to Williams injury (yes, past injury), and partly due to Dorsey being extended previous season.

i allowed others to name seven, so my 7th would be Jerrod-Eddie.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i did take a stand, read my first post. Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not (not likely), but you've been repeating my opinion all thread. So don't really get the above post?

i asked this question of others who want Justin to remain. The point being maybe THEY need to see actual names? Anyway, to answer the question, i see us keeping six DL to start the season.

Justin Smith
Dockett
Carradine
Dial
Armstead
Dorsey

i chose Dorsey over Williams at NT, partly due to Williams injury (yes, past injury), and partly due to Dorsey being extended previous season.

i allowed others to name seven, so my 7th would be Jerrod-Eddie.

When both Dorsey and Williams have been healthy, Williams has been starting over him. Dial can play NT, but he's not a true NT. I just can't see them cutting Williams unless he gets hurt again. Dorsey for the starting spot in 2013 and has been effective when on the field. He's also four years younger than Dorsey, and likely cheaper. Though he is staring at an "injury prone" label if he can't stay healthy this year.

If we're going a little heavy at a position, I think a position with two starters who will be in the mid-30s and one who will be 30 at season's start is a good place to do so. And the former DL coach has a little more sway than he used to....

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i did take a stand, read my first post. Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not (not likely), but you've been repeating my opinion all thread. So don't really get the above post?

i asked this question of others who want Justin to remain. The point being maybe THEY need to see actual names? Anyway, to answer the question, i see us keeping six DL to start the season.

Justin Smith
Dockett
Carradine
Dial
Armstead
Dorsey

i chose Dorsey over Williams at NT, partly due to Williams injury (yes, past injury), and partly due to Dorsey being extended previous season.

i allowed others to name seven, so my 7th would be Jerrod-Eddie.

When both Dorsey and Williams have been healthy, Williams has been starting over him. Dial can play NT, but he's not a true NT. I just can't see them cutting Williams unless he gets hurt again. Dorsey for the starting spot in 2013 and has been effective when on the field. He's also four years younger than Dorsey, and likely cheaper. Though he is staring at an "injury prone" label if he can't stay healthy this year.

If we're going a little heavy at a position, I think a position with two starters who will be in the mid-30s and one who will be 30 at season's start is a good place to do so. And the former DL coach has a little more sway than he used to....

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i did take a stand, read my first post. Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not (not likely), but you've been repeating my opinion all thread. So don't really get the above post?

i asked this question of others who want Justin to remain. The point being maybe THEY need to see actual names? Anyway, to answer the question, i see us keeping six DL to start the season.

Justin Smith
Dockett
Carradine
Dial
Armstead
Dorsey

i chose Dorsey over Williams at NT, partly due to Williams injury (yes, past injury), and partly due to Dorsey being extended previous season.

i allowed others to name seven, so my 7th would be Jerrod-Eddie.

When both Dorsey and Williams have been healthy, Williams has been starting over him. Dial can play NT, but he's not a true NT. I just can't see them cutting Williams unless he gets hurt again. Dorsey for the starting spot in 2013 and has been effective when on the field. He's also four years younger than Dorsey, and likely cheaper. Though he is staring at an "injury prone" label if he can't stay healthy this year.

If we're going a little heavy at a position, I think a position with two starters who will be in the mid-30s and one who will be 30 at season's start is a good place to do so. And the former DL coach has a little more sway than he used to....

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Sorry for the multiple posts. Computer was acting up.

 

[Gold Rush 86]

As much as I like Justin Smith I agree its time to move on. Last year we kept 7 guys on the D-Line Smith, McDonald, Williams, TJE, Dial, Dobbs and Tank. Dorsey was on the injured list of course. I think we keep at least 7 again this season. Maybe 8 depends how things play out.

 

[deep9er]

As much as I like Justin Smith I agree its time to move on. Last year we kept 7 guys on the D-Line Smith, McDonald, Williams, TJE, Dial, Dobbs and Tank. Dorsey was on the injured list of course. I think we keep at least 7 again this season. Maybe 8 depends how things play out.

eight sounds like much? if we lay out the entire 53, i'd think 8 DL won't work?

Earlier seven seemed like a luxury too, but after reading we had 7 AND drafting Armstead, changing to seven.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Haha! I've changed Deep's mind. Or perhaps contributed slightly. Victory!!!

Would it be terribly vain to address the 2007 draft again?

 

[Wolvie]

Without Smith do you guys think 8-8 is still a likely scenario?

You guys have had about as rough a go of it as a fanbase possibly could in a single offseason but I'm really intrigued to see how Tomsula prepares the team. At this point I'm actually pulling for him to have some success, so long as you guys don't challenge for the division.

 

[dredinis21]

Without Smith do you guys think 8-8 is still a likely scenario?

You guys have had about as rough a go of it as a fanbase possibly could in a single offseason but I'm really intrigued to see how Tomsula prepares the team. At this point I'm actually pulling for him to have some success, so long as you guys don't challenge for the division.

This coaching staff led by Tomsula will be living and dying with their ability to "teach". Remember that Baalke said after they offed Harbaugh that the next coach would have to be a teacher...for better or for worse, Baalke drafted a good handful of project developmental players and if this staff can't coach them up, I have to believe that Tomsula gets a quick ax. Two seasons at best. I like the guy and am rooting for him to have major success because of his willingness to be honest and genuine with everyone he comes into contact with. I just think he is getting fucked no matter what he does. If he wins, it's with Harbaugh's team. If he loses, then he is a terrible coach, almost discounting the shit-storm this whole coaching fiasco actually was and how it affects play. Key locker room leaders like Willis and Gore are leaving. We need Justin for this young team's sake.

 

[Pattersonca65]

Without Smith do you guys think 8-8 is still a likely scenario?

You guys have had about as rough a go of it as a fanbase possibly could in a single offseason but I'm really intrigued to see how Tomsula prepares the team. At this point I'm actually pulling for him to have some success, so long as you guys don't challenge for the division.

For some people maybe. But many people outside of our fanbase are making a big thing of some of our aging players leaving. Gore and Cowboy are at the end of their careers and their play is on the decline. They would have been gone next year if not this year. Hated to see Willis go but even Willis' play had slipped because of his lingering toe issue. They were also expecting not to retain Iupati and had planned for his leaving. He is a good run blocker but not a bad pass blocker. The 49ers were 8-8 last year with a decimated defense. Unless this coaching staff turns out bad, there is no reason to believe they can't. The offense underperformed under Harbaugh and was getting worse. The offense could be worse next year, but that bar was set pretty low. It also wouldn't be unreasonable to see it really improve next year, especially with the addition of Torrey Smith.

 

[deep9er]

Without Smith do you guys think 8-8 is still a likely scenario?

You guys have had about as rough a go of it as a fanbase possibly could in a single offseason but I'm really intrigued to see how Tomsula prepares the team. At this point I'm actually pulling for him to have some success, so long as you guys don't challenge for the division.

yes, 8-8 is definitely doable.

Our defense won't be rock solid, but it'll be good enough. So as usual it comes down to Kaep.

Secondly, last season Kaep took the brunt of it, but the O-line didn't do well either. Our O-line has enough individual talent, but they need to play better as a Unit. So biggest factor is Kaep, next is O-line chemistry.

 

[dredinis21]

ok, so in your scenario we lose Jerrod-Eddie, Ramsey, and Okoye. This wouldn't be a disaster, but if a "lost season" is say a 7-9 record, what did keeping Justin do for us?

again, don't think we keep seven on opening day, so you MIGHT have to remove another DL? Since you said Dial swings to NT, my guess is you'd remove Williams?

Jerod-Eddie is a rotational player at best, Ramsey hasn't shown as a 7th rounder how to stay healthy at ANY point in his collegiate or pro career, and Okoye was a fun project but he's had 2 years. He either unseats an incumbent or he continues his career elsewhere. And that goes for the rest of them. At worst, Tank and Dial are explosive rotational pieces and IMO MUCH more active when called upon. It's not like we are cutting mega talents in order to make room for Justin Smith. Smith last year was STILL our best DL, that it wasn't even close.

You asked me for my 7. I gave you 7. Now you want me to limit from there? Ok, probably Williams considering the lower leg injuries he's sustained.