Junior

[wazzu31]

Before his moodiness? No. After his moodiness? Yes. I didn't/don't want any player on my favorite team who doesn't want to be there. In retrospect it was a great trade for the position they were in. Jr. himself has said on record that playing CF in the majors has at best a 12 shelf life. All those years running on the Kingdome concrete took a toll on his legs and he has said as much. I appreciated everything JR. did on the field as a Mariner and he was my favorite player to watch, but his two exits were moves a baby makes. He says now driving home to Florida in the middle of the night on his last deal was to not be a distraction. He wasn't a distraction, but leaving as he did was for a time because that was the only question being asked to the team for some time afterwards.

Ok, fair rebuttal. My scenario was more of if you take Cameron vs Junior equally. But even then, I’d still say a pouty Junior was better just as pouty Randy was better than 99% of the pitchers who the Mariners have trotted out there since. My issue is I completely understand both sides, if I were the Mariners I would’ve offered ARod more because he was younger and a damn near triple crown winner. I wish a lot stuff would’ve been different and I wonder how much the organization completely disrespecting Randy played into it. I just can’t see how any rational person can buy Junior and his agent’s excuse of wanting to leave because of family when he ends up in Cincy. If he were single and wanted to be close to Mom and Dad, sure. But not when you have a wife and 2 kids at the time that aren’t even in the same time zone as Florida. I’ve never flown from Cincinnati or wherever their main hub is but I know Alaska is Seattle based let alone Boeing Field is the largest commercial airport in the country.

 

[seattlefan75]

interesting comments from people on this thread as this was before my time and cant really apply my thoughts about Griffey. I will say from what I have heard Griffey was an extremely arrogant player in that his nice guy smile and reputation was one thing but behind the scenes he did have a Michael Jordan type of arrogance to him it wouldn't surprise me that the whole story about his friend dying was more of something to ride on to get out of Seattle and somewhere he wants to be. What I did like about junior he openly said he wouldn't play for the Yankees because if he would have did what he done and requested a trade to the yankees that would have left me really sour.

I know a lot of people will bash me and Griffey was an iconic player and did save the mariners franchise from relocating from what I understand if you take that away and see who was really deserving I would put Ichiro Suzuki and Felix Hernandez ahead of Griffey. In the end Griffey asked to be traded and both Ichiro and Felix both gave everything they had for the organization until they basically became nothing.

 

[NWinAZ]

Which I can understand but wasn’t what the documentary said and why I commented on I think it did him wrong. They hadn’t even moved into Safeco yet when his agent and he started talking about how he didn’t want to be like his dad and missing everything.

No it was after the contraction and after his BP in the unfinished and as you have pointed out yourself being in Cinci would never have abled him to watch little league games. His dad didn't and they lived in the same city. That goes to the whole BS factor. In one of the articles he also claims the death of Stewart the pro golfer was a big factor. Different moment, different reason because he din't want to be hated by the people he really didn't care for...the everyday man/woman.

 

[NWinAZ]

I know a lot of people will bash me and Griffey was an iconic player and did save the mariners franchise from relocating from what I understand if you take that away and see who was really deserving I would put Ichiro Suzuki and Felix Hernandez ahead of Griffey. In the end Griffey asked to be traded and both Ichiro and Felix both gave everything they had for the organization until they basically became nothing.

Dead on. I have watched the M's from their first game on and I was a huge Griffey the player fan, but if you ask me my favorite Mariners player I will always say Edgar first and Randy second with Felix a close third. I have witnessed Griffey up close at spring training (his second time on the team) and I always said for a guy the fans idolized he sure doesn't give a shit about them. He ignores them every chance he can.

 

[NWinAZ]

Not sure if I ever mentioned on here or just on the old CBS board, but after Jr requested his trade and was traded I was lucky enough to correspond with a national baseball reporter via email (I really wish I still had those emails). What he told me was he was the Braves writer back when Sr played there and the writer could not stand young Griffey. He said he was the most entitled and brattiest kid he was ever around (and Jr was around 16, 17 at the time). He said the dislike for him didn't change when Jr became a major leaguer. Still acted the same way to people as a player per him as well.

 

[wazzu31]

No it was after the contraction and after his BP in the unfinished and as you have pointed out yourself being in Cinci would never have abled him to watch little league games. His dad didn't and they lived in the same city. That goes to the whole BS factor. In one of the articles he also claims the death of Stewart the pro golfer was a big factor. Different moment, different reason because he din't want to be hated by the people he really didn't care for...the everyday man/woman.

Which we can completely agree on and I guess is the crux of my heated comments on it, is that he is still going with that PR statement. But the documentary killed that entire narrative for anyone who didn’t believe leaving for family was the legit reason.

 

[wazzu31]

Not sure if I ever mentioned on here or just on the old CBS board, but after Jr requested his trade and was traded I was lucky enough to correspond with a national baseball reporter via email (I really wish I still had those emails). What he told me was he was the Braves writer back when Sr played there and the writer could not stand young Griffey. He said he was the most entitled and brattiest kid he was ever around (and Jr was around 16, 17 at the time). He said the dislike for him didn't change when Jr became a major leaguer. Still acted the same way to people as a player per him as well.

I could be wrong but my understanding the reason he didn’t get traded to Seattle was they said no on sending Andruw Jones back in the deal thus not leaving the Mariners with anyone to play CF since FA was essentially over when the trade went down. My uncle lived right outside of Atlanta and that was the talk when it happened, so maybe that was just sports talk shows saying it.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

So watching the documentary and still irritates me with sticking with his story he wanted out of Seattle because of his family. I don’t know if the documentary meant to but it did him wrong with that aspect.

Fuck Junior.

Lets go Jay Buhner!

 

[wazzu31]

Fuck Junior.

Lets go Jay Buhner!

Hmm 99% this is a troll, if true or trolling explain? No Mariners fan would ever take Buhner over Junior. Nor could any Mariners fan could ever be conceived as being racist except for maybe anti Japanese because Ichiro isn’t on most Mariners fans Mt Rushmore.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

I think Griffey believed his HR power would drop wanting to be the HR king and all so forcing a trade makes sense. Opposing teams seem just fine slamming HRs so he would have been fine. Yes he's on the M's Mount Rushmore but I couldn't less about him anymore.

 

[wazzu31]

interesting comments from people on this thread as this was before my time and cant really apply my thoughts about Griffey. I will say from what I have heard Griffey was an extremely arrogant player in that his nice guy smile and reputation was one thing but behind the scenes he did have a Michael Jordan type of arrogance to him it wouldn't surprise me that the whole story about his friend dying was more of something to ride on to get out of Seattle and somewhere he wants to be. What I did like about junior he openly said he wouldn't play for the Yankees because if he would have did what he done and requested a trade to the yankees that would have left me really sour.

I know a lot of people will bash me and Griffey was an iconic player and did save the mariners franchise from relocating from what I understand if you take that away and see who was really deserving I would put Ichiro Suzuki and Felix Hernandez ahead of Griffey. In the end Griffey asked to be traded and both Ichiro and Felix both gave everything they had for the organization until they basically became nothing.

I wouldn’t go so far as to say he was arrogant. He was always kind to fans every time I saw. He was kind Marshawn Lynch when it came to the media because they were harsh on him but I never heard a bad thing about him from a fan interaction or by a teammate. I could totally be wrong.

IMO Felix is the only comparable because both were young enough to be the best FA’s in baseball history and both chose to stay in Seattle unlike Bonds, Clemens or essentially any modern day player that wasn’t in a major market. I can’t compare Junior and Ichiro as, IMO, Junior gave everything in every game to make the Mariners better and once that wasn’t his primary goal anymore he requested a trade. IMO Ichiro played 2 seasons for the Mariners and the rest for Ichiro. Not saying that is bad, just not the same.

 

[seattlefan75]

I wouldn’t go so far as to say he was arrogant. He was always kind to fans every time I saw. He was kind Marshawn Lynch when it came to the media because they were harsh on him but I never heard a bad thing about him from a fan interaction or by a teammate. I could totally be wrong.

IMO Felix is the only comparable because both were young enough to be the best FA’s in baseball history and both chose to stay in Seattle unlike Bonds, Clemens or essentially any modern day player that wasn’t in a major market. I can’t compare Junior and Ichiro as, IMO, Junior gave everything in every game to make the Mariners better and once that wasn’t his primary goal anymore he requested a trade. IMO Ichiro played 2 seasons for the Mariners and the rest for Ichiro. Not saying that is bad, just not the same.

I never really understood the dislike from Mariner fans on Ichiro and how he was selfish? I felt like he did everything he could as far as effort to play at a high level and the mariners organization failed in getting the right pieces around him. The way I look at it Griffey would have left town a lot sooner but Ichiro stuck around and spent the majority of his career there. I could be wrong but even today he goes out and recruits japanese players like Kikuchi

 

[wazzu31]

I never really understood the dislike from Mariner fans on Ichiro and how he was selfish? I felt like he did everything he could as far as effort to play at a high level and the mariners organization failed in getting the right pieces around him. The way I look at it Griffey would have left town a lot sooner but Ichiro stuck around and spent the majority of his career there. I could be wrong but even today he goes out and recruits japanese players like Kikuchi

I know Ichiro recruited Ohtani for the Mariners as well. I do not hate or dislike Ichiro I just think he was selfish. Just a few things, he didn’t want to become the number 3 hitter when they needed him to be. He forced Mike Hargrove into resigning when they looked like they could make the playoffs (along with my favorite minor league manager of all time) and the one that most detrimental was he refused to switch to CF when their top prospects were CF. IMO had Ichiro been more about the team Choo and Adam Jones would’ve played most of their careers as a Mariner.

 

[NWinAZ]

I could be wrong but my understanding the reason he didn’t get traded to Seattle was they said no on sending Andruw Jones back in the deal thus not leaving the Mariners with anyone to play CF since FA was essentially over when the trade went down. My uncle lived right outside of Atlanta and that was the talk when it happened, so maybe that was just sports talk shows saying it.

Yes Atlanta said why would we trade Jones for Jr when Jones is much younger and already better than Jr at this stage? Plus Jones cost a fraction of the price as Jr at that point.

 

[wazzu31]

Yes Atlanta said why would we trade Jones for Jr when Jones is much younger and already better than Jr at this stage? Plus Jones cost a fraction of the price as Jr at that point.

That was my understanding at the time as well and totally understandable from the Braves perspective. If it were Jones for Junior straight up I think the Braves would’ve done it but if memory serves me right it was Jones and Smoltz....could be wrong though.

Kind of backwards of the Mariners signing Chone Figgins when they had an all star 2B and an all world lead off hitter. One franchise has made the playoffs 5 plus times more than the other. Plus all the other stupid moves that made no sense but I’m sure we have talked about those to death.

 

[NWinAZ]

That was my understanding at the time as well and totally understandable from the Braves perspective. If it were Jones for Junior straight up I think the Braves would’ve done it but if memory serves me right it was Jones and Smoltz....could be wrong though.

Not sure about the Smoltz part but they said no to even Jones for Griffey which I understand that as well. Griffey was breaking down and Jones was rising fast.

 

[wazzu31]

Not sure about the Smoltz part but they said no to even Jones for Griffey which I understand that as well. Griffey was breaking down and Jones was rising fast.

I could be wrong but I think that was when Smoltz got injured and was transitioning into a closer. I guess I never heard a hard pass on Jones for Junior but I would’ve without question traded any one CF for Junior in 99. He was the best all around player, no offense to anyone who wants to claim Bonds was in his league because of average and stolen base totals, but I would’ve gone with a 1st ballot HOFer in the prime of his career versus a talented as heck young inexperienced guy.

 

[NWinAZ]

Something I read in an article from just before the Griffey trade analyzing all teams that met his demands. This below was being asked regarding a trade to Atlanta:

In all this, one has to question whether Griffey is worth it. Despite the exuberance Griffey displays on the field, there is a decidedly dark side to his personality. He and Rodriguez have never been close, nor was Griffey with Johnson. Griffey's closest friend on the Mariners is right fielder Jay Buhner,who has always been willing to play Tonto to Junior's Lone Ranger. Griffey had better start packing right now because with him there is a lot of baggage.

 

[NWinAZ]

The original trade that luckily got vetoed.

So the Mets and Mariners agreed to a trade, with Octavio Dotel, Armando Benitez and Roger Cedeno headlining the package being sent to the Mariners. But as a player with 10 years of MLB experience and five with his current team, Griffey had the right to veto any trade. And he did just that.

 

[NWinAZ]

Another deal:

No go

According to the Seattle Times, the Cardinals were one of four teams “having serious discussions” with the Mariners about Griffey. The others were the Reds, Mets and Astros.

“The Cardinals might be on the short list of teams entertaining serious dreams of obtaining superstar Ken Griffey Jr.,” the Post-Dispatch reported.

The Mariners “would be certain to ask” for pitcher Rick Ankiel, the Seattle Times reported, but the Post-Dispatch declared, “Jocketty isn’t likely to give him up in any trade.”

According to the Post-Dispatch, the Cardinals might consider dealing to the Mariners some combination of third baseman Fernando Tatis, outfielder J.D. Drew, second baseman Adam Kennedy and pitcher Chad Hutchinson.

Eventually, the Mariners’ asking price was too high and the Cardinals backed off.

“We’ve had a couple of discussions, but player-wise it was going to be too rich for us,” Jocketty said. “They were looking for a killing on this deal.”

At the baseball winter meetings in December 1999, the other suitors for Griffey also broke off talks with the Mariners. Refusing to include infielder Pokey Reese in a trade for Griffey, Reds general manager Jim Bowden said, “There’s no chance at all” for a deal.

A month later, the Reds and Mariners resumed trade talks. The Reds insisted a deal would be contingent on Griffey agreeing to a long-term contract and giving up his chance to become a free agent after the 2000 season.

On Feb. 10, 2000, after Griffey accepted a nine-year contract proposal worth $116.5 million, the Mariners traded him to the Reds for four players, including outfielder Mike Cameron and pitcher Brett Tomko.

A month later, on March 23, 2000, the Cardinals acquired Jim Edmonds from the Angels to be their center fielder.