Jay Gruden Sucks As Head Coach

[SoCalWizFan]

BTW Shark - are you stating that if it becomes obvious to most that Gruden is just not qualified as an NFL head coach (ala Spurrier) that the team should still keep him simply for the sake of continuity? Honestly - what exactly has he shown thus far to indicate that he is solid head coaching material? Being a good asst doesn't always translate into being a good head coach (see Turner, Norv). Neither does having a brother who was a very good head coach.

 

[Sharkinva]

Socal what I am stating is that two years is not enough time in most cases to asses a head coach and swapping out every couple of years has done more damage to this team than any player has aside from wonderboy. Now if Gruden proves to be a total train wreck, then yes I could see a case for moving on. How ever even with the loss yesterday, I did not see the Spurrioresque style of failure that would lead me to think this is a coaching issue. Did we play conservative at times?? Sure we did. But over all aside from the Special teams break down we actually played a very solid game. I personally think Gruden was handed a hot mess last year and it was a no win situation for him. Bringing in a new coach means you either need some one who is going to continue on the path Gruden has set down, or you have to give the next guy 5 years to make the roster into what HE has in mind.

So I am saying that aside from another 3-13 season where the coach AND the team looks totally inept, a total shift wont be just another wasted year... it will be another 2-3 years wasted.

 

[ehb5]

OK for those saying Gruden leaving matters not one way or the other.. .exactly how do you establish a different culture if you are constantly rotating both players and coaches.

Good teams are the ones who have coaches around for more than a year or two. Bad teams are the ones who hit the panic button every two years or so and bring in the next guy and always wonder... why do we continue to suck. If we are going into 2016 with a new HC, new QB then likely you are also going in with an entirely new offense as well. So do we continue in the cycle of new coach new offense every two years?? And lets face it, if we are looking at a new QB it will likely be a rookie. Since I dont see this team finishing well enough to makr the Cardale mistake, I can only shudder at the possible clusterfuck that will ensue if in fact we are once again looking for a new coach.

Whats best for this team right now is if Gruden lives out his entire contract period.

I disagree. If you made a mistake you have to fix it. We made a mistake. Fire Gruden and find somebody better. I like the idea of sticking with somebody but it just doesn't always work in application.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Socal what I am stating is that two years is not enough time in most cases to asses a head coach and swapping out every couple of years has done more damage to this team than any player has aside from wonderboy. Now if Gruden proves to be a total train wreck, then yes I could see a case for moving on. How ever even with the loss yesterday, I did not see the Spurrioresque style of failure that would lead me to think this is a coaching issue. Did we play conservative at times?? Sure we did. But over all aside from the Special teams break down we actually played a very solid game. I personally think Gruden was handed a hot mess last year and it was a no win situation for him. Bringing in a new coach means you either need some one who is going to continue on the path Gruden has set down, or you have to give the next guy 5 years to make the roster into what HE has in mind.

So I am saying that aside from another 3-13 season where the coach AND the team looks totally inept, a total shift wont be just another wasted year... it will be another 2-3 years wasted.

OK - we are probably not far apart on this one. I was really referring to a situation close to the 3-13 one that you describe above. If the Skins show real promise towards the end of the year but the record is just so-so then I won't have too much of an issue in retaining Gruden. The one exception would be if there were a philosophical disagreement between SM and Gruden. In that case - no question - SM wins out since Gruden just doesn't have the resume to win that type of battle.

 

[Sharkinva]

I disagree. If you made a mistake you have to fix it. We made a mistake. Fire Gruden and find somebody better. I like the idea of sticking with somebody but it just doesn't always work in application.

Again how have you determined after one year we made a mistake?? A year in which we handed the coach an unfixable player, demanded we start him for most of the season, and the team failed?? Thats like handing some one an 8' bass boat and telling them well you said you could get from Florida to China, now we need you there in three days, enjoy the trip.

I dont think Gruden was a mistake. I think he was handed a mess and told you have to get it right. I think the people screaming for his release if we dont make the playoffs or close to it this year, are still secretly pissed that Griffin isnt the starting QB and are more butthurt that Gruden wasnt able to fix Griffin.

 

[ehb5]

Again how have you determined after one year we made a mistake?? A year in which we handed the coach an unfixable player, demanded we start him for most of the season, and the team failed?? Thats like handing some one an 8' bass boat and telling them well you said you could get from Florida to China, now we need you there in three days, enjoy the trip.

I dont think Gruden was a mistake. I think he was handed a mess and told you have to get it right. I think the people screaming for his release if we dont make the playoffs or close to it this year, are still secretly pissed that Griffin isnt the starting QB and are more butthurt that Gruden wasnt able to fix Griffin.

Like it or not the guy was supposed to develop cousins or griffin. He hasn't. Instead I think he's played favorites and added to the circus that is this team. They have no discipline under him. Has he done anything positive in his time here?

 

[DJ Fieri]

Good coordinator, bad HC. Common story.

Some people need to be happy with their position in life and not always want a promotion.

 

[DJ Fieri]

And Cousins is a turnover machine, it's just a matter of time till McCoy starts imo.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I dont think Gruden was a mistake. I think he was handed a mess and told you have to get it right. I think the people screaming for his release if we dont make the playoffs or close to it this year, are still secretly pissed that Griffin isnt the starting QB and are more butthurt that Gruden wasnt able to fix Griffin.

That might be true for some but certainly that does not represent everyone who might want to get rid of Gruden. I have no issue with RG3 not playing at this time & I have doubts about Gruden. This goes well beyond the QB position. Why do so many folks believe that the end-all / be-all for a team is the QB position?

I have talked to several folks who are about ready to move on from Gruden & I would guess that most are not RG3 fans. You need to stop associating every Redskins issue with RG3. You may be right about Gruden, but he also needs to prove some things himself. Coaching an NFL team is not an entitlement. Again - if the team shows promise - regardless of record - and he shows that he is part of the solution and not the problem - give him another year or two.

 

[j_y19]

Like it or not the guy was supposed to develop cousins or griffin. He hasn't. Instead I think he's played favorites and added to the circus that is this team. They have no discipline under him. Has he done anything positive in his time here?

I keep seeing this statement that gruden was supposed to develop Griffin. No, he was hired to develop the team. If he was just responsible for Griffin, he would be the QB coach. And what of the fact that now multiple coaching regimes say he will never develop? People need to stop deflecting the blame for Griffins lack of development. I don't care how good you are, you can't make diamonds from a turd. I'm sure he didn't know he was to be working with a turd when he accepted the job, but get off this kick that he is a failure because Griffin is a failure. Gruden has issues, but that is not one of them.

 

[j_y19]

That might be true for some but certainly that does not represent everyone who might want to get rid of Gruden. I have no issue with RG3 not playing at this time & I have doubts about Gruden. This goes well beyond the QB position. Why do so many folks believe that the end-all / be-all for a team is the QB position?

I have talked to several folks who are about ready to move on from Gruden & I would guess that most are not RG3 fans. You need to stop associating every Redskins issue with RG3. You may be right about Gruden, but he also needs to prove some things himself. Coaching an NFL team is not an entitlement. Again - if the team shows promise - regardless of record - and he shows that he is part of the solution and not the problem - give him another year or two.

This is more my line of thinking, but I'm not yet ready to punt on gruden. I have serious concerns, it appears to me that the teams he fields are not mentally ready (hence stupid penalties) and he gets out coached during the games, especially with adjustments at half. But he also was thrown into a shit pile rife with political landlines that he has to wade through that most HCs don't deal with. He deserves more time, but my patience is not limitless.

 

[ehb5]

I keep seeing this statement that gruden was supposed to develop Griffin. No, he was hired to develop the team. If he was just responsible for Griffin, he would be the QB coach. And what of the fact that now multiple coaching regimes say he will never develop? People need to stop deflecting the blame for Griffins lack of development. I don't care how good you are, you can't make diamonds from a turd. I'm sure he didn't know he was to be working with a turd when he accepted the job, but get off this kick that he is a failure because Griffin is a failure. Gruden has issues, but that is not one of them.

Disagree. Sure he has to develop the team as a whole but let's not kid ourselves that he wasn't supposed to develop griffin. And I also feel that Griffin has regressed under gruden. Sure maybe he never would've been a pro style qb but there are things he was doing his rookie year that he can't do anymore and they aren't just physical.

 

[j_y19]

Disagree. Sure he has to develop the team as a whole but let's not kid ourselves that he wasn't supposed to develop griffin. And I also feel that Griffin has regressed under gruden. Sure maybe he never would've been a pro style qb but there are things he was doing his rookie year that he can't do anymore and they aren't just physical.

If rg3 has regressed, it's his own damn fault. What has rg3 done to better himself or change his own trajectory?

 

[Sharkinva]

Disagree. Sure he has to develop the team as a whole but let's not kid ourselves that he wasn't supposed to develop griffin. And I also feel that Griffin has regressed under gruden. Sure maybe he never would've been a pro style qb but there are things he was doing his rookie year that he can't do anymore and they aren't just physical.

What he did during his rookie year was a product of the system. The system was designed to make HIM comfortable and give him wide open targets to throw to. Once we went away from that system, the suckage began. When two coaches have directly admitted he is unfixable, and 31 other staffs around the league have basically decided he isnt worth the head ache, I think we are beyond the point where it isnt a problem with the player. We could have gone into this season with RG3 as the unquestioned starter. Hell Im pretty sure the Jets would have given us SOMETHING for Cousins. The fact that the HC, GM and the rest of the planet not named Dan Snyder realized that we had a better chance to win games with RG3 not even accurate speaks volumes.

 

[ehb5]

If rg3 has regressed, it's his own damn fault. What has rg3 done to better himself or change his own trajectory?

Not sure how its all his fault and 0 percent grudens. Maybe they should both take blame.

 

[j_y19]

What he did during his rookie year was a product of the system. The system was designed to make HIM comfortable and give him wide open targets to throw to. Once we went away from that system, the suckage began. When two coaches have directly admitted he is unfixable, and 31 other staffs around the league have basically decided he isnt worth the head ache, I think we are beyond the point where it isnt a problem with the player. We could have gone into this season with RG3 as the unquestioned starter. Hell Im pretty sure the Jets would have given us SOMETHING for Cousins. The fact that the HC, GM and the rest of the planet not named Dan Snyder realized that we had a better chance to win games with RG3 not even accurate speaks volumes.

One important point...we went away from that system his rookie year at his behest. Let's not lose sight of that fact. His coaches said he wasn't ready, but he demanded it. Looks like the shanahans were right about that.

 

[ehb5]

What he did during his rookie year was a product of the system. The system was designed to make HIM comfortable and give him wide open targets to throw to. Once we went away from that system, the suckage began. When two coaches have directly admitted he is unfixable, and 31 other staffs around the league have basically decided he isnt worth the head ache, I think we are beyond the point where it isnt a problem with the player. We could have gone into this season with RG3 as the unquestioned starter. Hell Im pretty sure the Jets would have given us SOMETHING for Cousins. The fact that the HC, GM and the rest of the planet not named Dan Snyder realized that we had a better chance to win games with RG3 not even accurate speaks volumes.

I don't buy that completely. The system was huge and he fit perfectly with it but it doesn't explain everything. The guy was a completely different player.

 

[j_y19]

Not sure how its all his fault and 0 percent grudens. Maybe they should both take blame.

Dude, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Gruden can teach rg3 all he wants, but if the student bucks the teacher, how is that the teacher's fault?

Again, what has RG3 done specifically to make him a better QB? All he does is surround himself with those that tell him he is great. He has spent the last 4 offseason working with the same QB guru. How has that guy done for him? Gruden brought in cavanaugh this year specifically to work with Griffin. Cavanaugh is a respected QB coach in this league. Even Cavanaugh has written him off. He doesn't want to hear or address his weaknesses. Why should he, he has had a statue erected in his honor...has gruden?

 

[j_y19]

I don't buy that completely. The system was huge and he fit perfectly with it but it doesn't explain everything. The guy was a completely different player.

So how do you explain it because the change occurred before gruden?

 

[ehb5]

Dude, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Gruden can teach rg3 all he wants, but if the student bucks the teacher, how is that the teacher's fault?

Again, what has RG3 done specifically to make him a better QB? All he does is surround himself with those that tell him he is great. He has spent the last 4 offseason working with the same QB guru. How has that guy done for him? Gruden brought in cavanaugh this year specifically to work with Griffin. Cavanaugh is a respected QB coach in this league. Even Cavanaugh has written him off. He doesn't want to hear or address his weaknesses. Why should he, he has had a statue erected in his honor...has gruden?

I don't understand why you don't think it's both of their faults. It's not like rg3 doesn't ever practice or study film. But he's not learning. Sure some of that is him but some of it is the HC too.