Jay Cutler Won't Vaccinate His Children

[Broncosr0k]

This graph kills your guys argument dead.

The measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, and perfected in 1968. As we can all clearly see, measles was already LARGELY decreasing naturally by 63, and almost completely gone by 68 when this whole vaccine kick really got going

You cannot be this fucking stupid can you? The disease was in some decline and saw a spike in 1963. Follow it from there and it does to near zero. Diseases do not naturally drop to 90% ocurrences in a couple of years.


This stuff is never going to be exact. We are never going to have 100% protection from a vaccine. What it does do is stack the odds in your favor. For those who are asking why do we trust science so much....1)It has given a lot. 2) If you don't trust those experts who have made it their life's work to further understand nature why would you trust anyone at their word? Do you trust the airline pilot? How about the guys that build your car? If you begin to disagree with scientists why stop there? Why not tell any teachers they are wrong, why not dispute any fact you come across? US did not declare independence in 1776, plants need gatorade not water. The raiders are actually a great football team.

It is okay to question and ask for verification but don't tell me you have no trust in one area and not area. At that point you are cherry-picking facts to suit your own belief system.

 

[BoBlake]

At that point you are cherry-picking facts to suit your own belief system.

BINGO!

 

[NinerSickness]

For those who are asking why do we trust science so much....1)It has given a lot. 2) If you don't trust those experts who have made it their life's work to further understand nature why would you trust anyone at their word? Do you trust the airline pilot? How about the guys that build your car? If you begin to disagree with scientists why stop there? Why not tell any teachers they are wrong, why not dispute any fact you come across? US did not declare independence in 1776, plants need gatorade not water. The raiders are actually a great football team.

It's because not all "science" is actually science. Take psychology for instance: in now way does the vast majority of psychology follow the scientific method. It's 99% theory. That doesn't mean it's necessarily bad or wrong, but it's not a science. Phrenology used to have professionals & experts too. And in the realm of health & medicine it's literally impossible to eliminate all variables but one, and it's impossible to know for sure every single long-term effect something will have on one's body. EVERYTHING you take has side effects. Everything. So it comes down to what side effects you're willing to risk versus what benefit you want to gain from taking something.

I personally think the benefits of vaccination are so miniscule that they're not worth the risk of putting mercury or aluminum into the body. I'm sure you think the exact opposite; and to that I say GFY. Good for you! Go nuts. Vaccinate the crap out of whatever offspring you spawn. But notice how non-vaccinators like Jay Cutler aren't the ones being preachy assholes about it.

 

[NinerSickness]

You cannot be this fucking stupid can you? The disease was in some decline and saw a spike in 1963.

Again, just to put things into perspective: measles was dying off by itself anyway. Just like the Bubonic plague.

 

[cubzzzfanincali]

1st grade? you sure about that?

yep. My kids were taught it Grade 1.

 

[jakedog56]

The whole anti-vaccination movement has been based on a falsified study. The researcher who performed it was paid 55000 pounds by a group to publish fake results which led to a decrease in vaccinations, and subsequently an large increase in measles and mumps cases which attributed to deaths and permanent injury.

I know that this link is a Wikipedia link, but it is well-referenced. Read the article and then the reference articles also if you don't believe it.

MMR vaccine controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?cmd=Search&doptcmdl=Citation&defaultField=Title+Word&term=Taylor[author]+AND+Autism+and+measles,+mumps,+and+rubella+vaccine%3A+no+epidemiological+evidence+for+a+causal+association

In addition:
The HPV vaccine is safe.
Human Papillomavirus Vaccination Coverage Among Adolescent Girls, 2007?2012, and Postlicensure Vaccine Safety Monitoring, 2006?2013 ? United States

And there is no threat to public health from Thimerosal:
CDC - Thimerosal & Neuropsychological Outcomes at Ages 7?10 Years - Vaccine Safety

Now, if you don't trust the government then you might have justification for this and if you don't trust the scientific studies then that is another. But I do get frusterated by people who refuse to look at factual information and prefer to follow speculation and internet rumors when making these types of decisions.

 

[Mondio]

actually, the whole "anti-vaccination" movement isn't based on Wakefield's study, BTW other studies have been done and shown similar results, but let's ignore those for a while.

You can post all the links you want. I tend to think 10 years testing and bringing an actual vaccine to market gives me a bit different perspective than you have

vaccines can absolutely cause damage. There is no doubt about that among researchers. Thankfully the human body is incredibly resilient or we'd be dead before we were born. Vaccines or none.

So what if HPV is safe, HPV itself isn't anything to worry about. It really isn't. Over half of the population gets it at some point in their life. Most don't even know it. and about 80-90% will clear the infection without any medical intervention at all. So they developed a vaccine that will do what our bodies do naturally and get some legislators to mandate it for all little boys and girls. Gee, thanks for saving us LOL.

MMR has shown to cause gut disturbances. Not just in wakefields studies, but others as well. Are they important? possibly. We're just beginning to understand the relationship between gut and brain. Considering they are derived from the same notochordal tissues during development, it shouldn't be a surprise they are connected into childhood and adulthood.

There's a difference between methyl and ethyl mercury and also mode of transmission. Maybe it makes a difference, maybe not. Maybe it only affects those that have trouble clearing heavy metals from their system regardless of where it comes from. how do we figure out who they are before they are injected? because there is no debating what the accumulation of heavy metals does in biologic tissues. I've seen it under microscope, have you? or did you just read it on the internet?

many other compounds are created when vaccines are administered. Some we barely understand, but mostly they don't seem to cause any short term problems. How's it affecting the long term health of the species? I don't know, I have my thoughts, but can they be proven? probably not in this lifetime.

Pertussis vaccines produce islet activating proteins that affect the pancreas. They can persist for weeks, months or years depending on the individual. How does that effect their long term life? Rubella, part of the MMR shot also affects the pancreas. Most of those compounds decrease after 1 year in those with congenital rubella, vaccine induced compounds appear to last for 7 years or more. Why? and what do you think that does to the pancreas?

We've found that the freaking potato famine cause DNA changes in Ireland and those changes persist to this day. We don't think a vaccine can do the same?

anyway, the "anti-vaccine" movement started in all sorts of places. Animal vets, doctors, researchers, regular everyday people, and celebrities. They all have their reasons. Look how long it was pushed every year to vaccinate your dogs and cats. Every single fucking year. Many said that was crazy, they were called crazy, research has shown for quite some time it was causing damage to pets. The vet colleges knew it, the researchers knew it and it took decades to get a shift if public policy to every 3 even though most have shown immunity with challenge to 7 years and beyond. Injection site sarcomas kill thousands of animals every year in this country, but they can't cause any long term affects in humans ?

Anyway you may get frustrated by people who refuse to "look at factual information and prefer to follow speculation and internet rumors when making these types of decisions", but trust me, I get frustrated by those that don't know anything more than the "other side" about the issue, they simply have a different perspective.

Our vaccination schedule in this country is crazy. We vaccinate enough people, we don't seem to have a problem with numbers. By most standards, we have what anyone would call a fully vaccinated population. Just as people seem to have a seemingly irrational fear of vaccine injury, there are so many in this country that have an equally irrational fear of disease. They simply do not have the background information to even begin to understand and yet somehow they think they are more educated on the subject because a public policy that is largely driven by money these days agrees with their view.

anyway, do what you want to yourself and your kids and give your neighbor the right to do what they think is best. you're still more likely to kill yourself or your kids by your own stupid actions than what any vaccine or lack of vaccine could do.

 

[jakedog56]

Fair enough and thanks for the good feedback.

I base what I am seeing on reports from the CDC, the USFDA, and the EMA (European equivilent to the USFDA). I can understand that they do not necessarily tell the whole story but I still would think that their accepted findings would be a better source than an internet blog or some book that Jay Cutler's wife picked up somewhere.

But I have to note that the vast majority of the anti-vac movement is based on the MMR vaccine and the supposed link to autism. From everything I can find this is a myth with no factual basis in reality. What are your feelings specific to this aspect?

 

[757Hokie83]

As far as the Autism angle; I couldn't agree more. My 5 year old has a high functioning form of Autism and if I could back and 86 the vaccinations, I would, in a heartbeat.

and then you'd have an autistic 5 year old who is much more susceptible to easily prevented illnesses, yay!

 

[Mondio]

Fair enough and thanks for the good feedback.

I base what I am seeing on reports from the CDC, the USFDA, and the EMA (European equivilent to the USFDA). I can understand that they do not necessarily tell the whole story but I still would think that their accepted findings would be a better source than an internet blog or some book that Jay Cutler's wife picked up somewhere.

But I have to note that the vast majority of the anti-vac movement is based on the MMR vaccine and the supposed link to autism. From everything I can find this is a myth with no factual basis in reality. What are your feelings specific to this aspect?

I think autism like anything has many causes. I know that compounds are created in vaccines that seem harmless, we don't fully understand what they do, are beneficial, or are harmful to a minor degree, but don't seem to cause long term issues in most people.

I fully believe that some forms of autism can have their root in vaccination damage. I also believe it can have it's root in parental paranoia and looking for a diagnosis, the same as it could be an inability of the body to clear some harmful stuff naturally and vaccines are just one small part. I think a lot of Autism is also doctors and parents looking for a diagnosis and an industry that likes to give pills. I think environmental toxins play a part, i think nutritional deficiencies by the mother or after birth play a role. It's a set of symptoms that can occur for a thousand different reasons.

There are a few other studies i've seen with similar findings. Not the same, but similar to what that one study that had made up data in it done by Wakefield. The relationship between gut and brain is fairly new and pretty fascinating. I know there isn't as much money to prove their is "harm" as much as there is an incentive to prove complete safety. I have enough experience to believe the answer is somewhere in the middle.

as it stands, I'm not afraid of Measles, mumps or German Measles with or without vaccines. I can make decisions for my family, just as I afford you the right to make them for yours. Since MMR does contain a live virus, it is responsible for a few cases of measles every year. I don't hold it against you if you'd like to vaccinate your kids and have them shed live virus for a while exposing everyone around them It's funny to ready a news article about an "outbreak" with the obligatory blame placed at the feet of the unvaccinated and then get to the nuts and bolts and see the real data where a number of cases were vaccine induced and the other 80% are in fully vaccinated kids. But you don't find that in the press releases, and it doesn't surprise me.

 

[NinerSickness]

The whole anti-vaccination movement has been based on a falsified study.

No it's not. There was an anti-vaccination "movement," if you'd call it that, long before that study. I don't think there's any hard evidence vaccinations cause autism, yet I'm still 100% against vaccinations.

 

[Bunkamania]

Dunno if this was brought up or not in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ztiAN9k584

 

[BoBlake]

Dunno if this was brought up or not in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ztiAN9k584

It shouldn't have been brought up since it's widely considered to be, at best, a woman with a psychological disorder. At worse, a complete media whore who faked the whole thing. I'll let you decide which one (or both).

 

[Mondio]

It shouldn't have been brought up since it's widely considered to be, at best, a woman with a psychological disorder. At worse, a complete media whore who faked the whole thing. I'll let you decide which one (or both).

I don't know this woman, didn't even ever hear of the story till now. I do personally know a woman, who at 30 years of age, married mother of 3, former DI soccer player and still very active and healthy, that is a nurse for an IA hospital. They were all required to get flu vaccines and she had an anaphylactic reaction and was flown to the University of IA hospital and put on a ventilator 2 days later. She was on it for over a week and had a couple months after that to regain her muscle coordination.

Those reactions are rare, but they do happen. Or maybe this healthy 30 year old woman who was always very active and continued to be very active, suddenly developed asthma and had an attack that caused system wide shock and required her to be hospitalized and put on a ventilator and here we are going on 5 years later and not another attack????? Hmmmmmmm. She never made it into a news story however.

If this was a thread about flu shots, I'd say anyone that goes to get one is crazy. Those things are basically worthless. They are a money grab by an industry from our gov't that people are just too happy to hand out year after year.

30 years of data and they repeatedly show the same thing. Minimal to useless in effectiveness for the young and old. A minor benefit to young and middle aged adults. On the order of 1 or 2 cases less per 100-1000 (and usually only demonstrated in industry funded studies) in a good year for the vaccine. Lost time from work? only benefits seen is in "hypotheticals" where they extrapolate information. Real world? no change. elderly death rate? no change, hospitalization rates? no change. Gee thanks for all the help. Yet every year our gov't gives billions to the industry to produce a vaccine that does very little.

Me? I'll stay healthy and fight it on my own. Being exposed naturally seems to create immunity to the same and similar strains 50 years and beyond. The antibodies from a flu jab? I'm not even protected from the exact same strain 2 years later let alone similar strains.

I think the nasal vaccines for flu are better in terms of creating "immunity", but the downside to them is you'd be intentionally turning many people that would not get the flu into carriers and incubators to shed the live virus around for days or weeks after receiving it. Potentially turning any flu season into a worse one and we run into an ethical dilemma.

 

[BoBlake]

I don't know this woman, didn't even ever hear of the story till now. I do personally know a woman, who at 30 years of age, married mother of 3, former DI soccer player and still very active and healthy, that is a nurse for an IA hospital. They were all required to get flu vaccines and she had an anaphylactic reaction and was flown to the University of IA hospital and put on a ventilator 2 days later. She was on it for over a week and had a couple months after that to regain her muscle coordination.

Yeah, and here's a story about a baby who recently died from whooping cough, for which a vaccine is available.

Travis Co. infant dies from 'whooping cough' | kvue.com Austin




I don't do flu shots either, but other vaccines are critical IMO (and science's).

 

[757Hokie83]

Dunno if this was brought up or not in this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ztiAN9k584

lmao, that shit was such a fraud, my buddy was an insurance claim investigator working on her case...complete, 100% fake.

 

[Mondio]

And more boys die from being circumsized than kids died from chicken pox every year in this country and he circumcision is still pushed and so are varicella vaccines to " protect" the children ).

I guess we're back to doing what YOU think is best for you and your family.

 

[757Hokie83]

And more boys die from being circumsized than kids died from chicken pox every year in this country and he circumcision is still pushed and so are varicella vaccines to " protect" the children ).

I guess we're back to doing what YOU think is best for you and your family.

one MAJOR difference, a botched circumcision doesnt have the potential to spread illness and harm others

 

[Mondio]

Yeah, and here's a story about a baby who recently died from whooping cough, for which a vaccine is available.

Travis Co. infant dies from 'whooping cough' | kvue.com Austin




I don't do flu shots either, but other vaccines are critical IMO (and science's).

And your link is woefully lacking. How old was the infant and was it vaccinated or not?

The media has one spin on the increase in pertussis cases and researchers have a completely different one. These outbreaks do NOT seem to be related to a very small drop in vaccination , but rather a waning in vaccine effectiveness. Go read on that for a while. Go beyond the press releases

 

[Mondio]

one MAJOR difference, a botched circumcision doesnt have the potential to spread illness and harm others

Another major difference is a complication from a procedure that has a double death rate over a common wild type disease will strike down and kill a perfectly healthy infant and the common wild type disease won't.