Jason Collins and Mark Jackson

[Big Red Slugs]

I think you're looking for something to rail against that may not be there.

 

[Heathbar012]

But he sure can commit adultry and that's a "sin".

I believe he already asked forgiveness for that one. I don't think you can ask forgiveness for the sins you haven't committed yet, but these are his rules, not mine.

 

[Heathbar012]

Hold up; you're reading into his comments what you want to be there. I am a more or less observant Jew; I believe eating pork is wrong.

Can't lie; it's wrong. Can't judge OTHERS, but for me it's wrong. If I had a client that was a hog farmer, I could still do my job and be fine with him producing pork for consumption. Similarly, Jackson works in an organization with Rick Welts as his superior. He can do his job and be fine with Rick being gay.

I think you're looking for something to rail against that may not be there.

I'm not railing against anything. I'm saying if his statement changed anyone's view of him, they didn't know enough about him before or don't understand Abrahamic religions.

 

[Heathbar012]

News Flash: Everyone sins.

Jackson never claimed to be without sin, he was asked a question and responded, I felt, appropriately for him. It's odd that some here want to call him a "bigot" and say Jackson is "hiding" behind the Bible, when in fact we all know exactly what he was saying and why he was saying it. I see no evidence at all of Jackson directing hatred toward homosexuals, i.e. bigotry, nor do I see any evidence of him trying to hide how his religious beliefs align with the issue.

You don't have to actively hate someone to be considered a bigot. I think you're working with a faulty definition.

Bigot | Define Bigot at Dictionary.com

His prejudices of homosexuals makes him intolerant of their lifestyle. In most cases, the religion that he preaches has tried to keep people from enjoying the right to marry or adopt children. Again, this does not change my opinion of him or any other person that has intolerance in their holy books. To each their own. I happen to agree with the "don't judge" parts more than the "women are here to serve men"/"enslaving people is okay" parts. I also believe that a set of religious guidelines shouldn't be treated like the tax code, as one poster so eloquently put it. If following one of the rules makes you feel like a bad person, you shouldn't affiliate yourself with that group. Again, that's just me.

 

[Big Red Slugs]

His prejudices of homosexuals makes him intolerant of their lifestyle.

He's not prejudging Collins. In fact, he stated he knows Collins and his family very well.

Neither is he intolerant of their lifestyle. By saying that he'll pray for Collins as he goes through the inevitable scrutiny, seems pretty tolerant to me.

At any rate, it seems like some of you guys just want to have a religion-bashing discussion. That's fine, but I'd suggest you're the ones who are "hiding" behind something else here. In other words, just come out and say you want to have a pointless conversation about religion already.

 

[TobyTyler]

As a man who cheated on his wife, perhaps Jackson should be more focused on that log in his own eye...

I love Jackson, but I've grown weary of hearing Christians judge others based on a literal reading of The Bible. The Bible, of course, has been used to justify everything from slavery to subjugation of women to murdering Jews and other "non-believers".

I guess it comes down to what Jackson means by, "I'm praying for him at this time." Does this mean he's praying for him to not "sin" anymore? Or does it mean he's praying for Collins to have strength at a time when being attacked is inevitable?

And for the record: I am a churchgoer and (obviously) fully support Collins and gay rights.

I never understood how that was possible. Either you believe in an omnipotent god and believe in the Bible as being his word or you don't. Unless you think the Bible is one of the great works of fiction as I do, I don't see how you can call yourself a Christian and then say you think homosexuality is OK since your bible calls it an abomination. You are simple picking and choosing what is acceptable to you.

 

[Heathbar012]

He's not prejudging Collins. In fact, he stated he knows Collins and his family very well.

Neither is he intolerant of their lifestyle. By saying that he'll pray for Collins as he goes through the inevitable scrutiny, seems pretty tolerant to me.

At any rate, it seems like some of you guys just want to have a religion-bashing discussion. That's fine, but I'd suggest you're the ones who are "hiding" behind something else here. In other words, just come out and say you want to have a pointless conversation about religion already.

I certainly don't want that conversation. I'm not one of the posters that said he was hiding behind anything. I typed that his statement shouldn't be a big deal because his work as a pastor already states what he believes. If you'll look back, I said that this was the only statement he could make from a PR standpoint. It was on the passive-aggressive side, but only to be true to his actual feelings on the subject (which I already knew about, and again, don't care).

However, don't go around believing indifference dismisses any one from bigotry. Mark Jackson does not approve of Jason Collins' lifestyle. If he does, that comment wasn't passive-aggressive at all, but he needs to re-evaluate his other chosen profession.

 

[Heathbar012]

[/B]

I never understood how that was possible. Either you believe in an omnipotent god and believe in the Bible as being his word or you don't. Unless you think the Bible is one of the great works of fiction as I do, I don't see how you can call yourself a Christian and then say you think homosexuality is OK since your bible calls it an abomination. You are simple picking and choosing what is acceptable to you.

This is what someone types when they want a pointless conversation.

 

[TobyTyler]

I certainly don't want that conversation. I'm not one of the posters that said he was hiding behind anything. I typed that his statement shouldn't be a big deal because his work as a pastor already states what he believes. If you'll look back, I said that this was the only statement he could make from a PR standpoint. It was on the passive-aggressive side, but only to be true to his actual feelings on the subject (which I already knew about, and again, don't care).

However, don't go around believing indifference dismisses any one from bigotry. Mark Jackson does not approve of Jason Collins' lifestyle. If he does, that comment wasn't passive-aggressive at all, but he needs to re-evaluate his other chosen profession.

I think BigRed believes that Jackson's comment about "praying for Jason Collins" had to do with praying for him to have an easy transition into the outed life. If so, I can understand his support for Jackson. I believe Jackson was saying "I'll pray for you to come to your senses so you won't go to hell". That is what I find distatsteful and bigoted.

 

[TobyTyler]

This is what someone types when they want a pointless conversation.

Good lord you are an arrogant dick, aren't you.

 

[Heathbar012]

Good lord you are an arrogant dick, aren't you.

Confident, quick-witted and empathic, but never arrogant. Please go easy on the name-calling. It brings down the level of any debate.

 

[Heathbar012]

I think BigRed believes that Jackson's comment about "praying for Jason Collins" had to do with praying for him to have an easy transition into the outed life. If so, I can understand his support for Jackson. I believe Jackson was saying "I'll pray for you to come to your senses so you won't go to hell". That is what I find distatsteful and bigoted.

Yeah. It's easy to interpret "I'll pray for you" from a devoutly Christian person to a homosexual as the religious version of "Oh, no. It looks good on you, though." However, I think Jackson truly does care about the family, and is praying for them to get through this difficult media chaos... He will also pray that he starts having sex with women, so he doesn't go to hell.

EDIT: For the record, I partially agreed with you. I don't want you to fly off the handle and start name-calling again. That was unpleasant for both of us.

 

[TobyTyler]

Confident, quick-witted and empathic, but never arrogant. Please go easy on the name-calling. It brings down the level of any debate.

LOL! Yep, my original assesment of you was spot on.

 

[tzill]

This is what someone types when they want a pointless conversation.

BAM!!

Post...of...the...THREAD.

Can't argue with an idiot; he'll only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience. The real question is: since this clown predicted they wouldn't make the playoffs, WTF is he still doing here?

Foolsense self-pwns again.

 

[TobyTyler]

BAM!!

Post...of...the...THREAD.

Can't argue with an idiot; he'll only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience. The real question is: since this clown predicted they wouldn't make the playoffs, WTF is he still doing here?

Foolsense self-pwns again.

Menopause is a bitch, ain't it tweezil? You are all hot and irritable again.

 

[CameronFrye]

I guess I should have imagined this thread would devolve. I was hoping for a higher level of conversation.

One last thing from me. I completely disagree with him and think he's a hypocrite for saying what he says, but I respect ESPN's Chris Broussard a whole shiiteload more than I do Jackson. When he was asked about the situation, here is what Broussard said, "Personally I don't believe that you can live an openly homosexual lifestyle or an openly premarital sex between heterosexuals. If you're openly living that type of lifestyle, the Bible says you know them by their fruits, it says that's a sin ... If you're openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be, not just homosexuality, adultery, fornication, premarital sex between heterosexuals, whatever it may be. I think that's walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ."

"I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I don't think the Bible would characterize them as a Christian."

Again, not trying to stir up atheists vs Xtians here, but Broussard was not afraid to speak his mind, and even though I think he fails to understand the bible truly and is wrong in what he said, I still respect him more than Jackson. From my studies of the bible, I believe that as a Xtain, he should have said the exact opposite because he is as much a sinner and a failure in the eyes of his god as Collins is and he has definitely committed sins that have rendered him short of heaven - at least according to his holy book.

As a side note, I know that Broussard apologized for his remarks, but I do not for a second believe he means what he says there. It was ESPN who made him give that apology. I think ESPN is a shitty organization for making him apologize for his words. But money does crazy things to people.

Bottom line: Jackson is a solid basketball coach but a complete loser as a person IMO.

 

[TobyTyler]

I guess I should have imagined this thread would devolve. I was hoping for a higher level of conversation.

One last thing from me. I completely disagree with him and think he's a hypocrite for saying what he says, but I respect ESPN's Chris Broussard a whole shiiteload more than I do Jackson. When he was asked about the situation, here is what Broussard said, "Personally I don't believe that you can live an openly homosexual lifestyle or an openly premarital sex between heterosexuals. If you're openly living that type of lifestyle, the Bible says you know them by their fruits, it says that's a sin ... If you're openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be, not just homosexuality, adultery, fornication, premarital sex between heterosexuals, whatever it may be. I think that's walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ."

"I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I don't think the Bible would characterize them as a Christian."

Again, not trying to stir up atheists vs Xtians here, but Broussard was not afraid to speak his mind, and even though I think he fails to understand the bible truly and is wrong in what he said, I still respect him more than Jackson. From my studies of the bible, I believe that as a Xtain, he should have said the exact opposite because he is as much a sinner and a failure in the eyes of his god as Collins is and he has definitely committed sins that have rendered him short of heaven - at least according to his holy book.

As a side note, I know that Broussard apologized for his remarks, but I do not for a second believe he means what he says there. It was ESPN who made him give that apology. I think ESPN is a shitty organization for making him apologize for his words. But money does crazy things to people.

Bottom line: Jackson is a solid basketball coach but a complete loser as a person IMO.

Broussard should also keep in mind that his Bible commands of him"judge not, lest ye be judged".

 

[CameronFrye]

Broussard should also keep in mind that his Bible commands of him"judge not, lest ye be judged".

Which is why I said he was a hypocrite. But he was honest about his feelings, which I respected.

I just don't like the fact that Jackson danced around the issue and hid behind religion to veil his true feelings.

 

[Heathbar012]

Which is why I said he was a hypocrite. But he was honest about his feelings, which I respected.

I just don't like the fact that Jackson danced around the issue and hid behind religion to veil his true feelings.

Do you think he would've been fired, fined or suspended if he said the same thing as Broussard?

 

[CameronFrye]

Do you think he would've been fired, fined or suspended if he said the same thing as Broussard?

That is a good question. My honest answer is, "I would hope not." but in this PC world, he might have been.