Is Thoron the Claude Lemuix

[PuckinUgly57]

Its honestly stupid to expect a player to drop the gloves for laying out a clean hit.

Are you just not getting what the gist of the discussion is? This isn't about whether the hit was clean or not - it absolutely was. It was about who Orpik hit.

It's not rocket science, man. He checked a better player on the Bruins and refused to be held accountable for it. Thornton is a goon, but he isn't a dirty goon (until now). One of the most respected fighters in the league because of his honor and the way he fights and how he fights.

He snapped for certain, but let's not let Orpik off the hook too. He played a significant role in this and acted like he did nothing.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

So let me ask the question another way. Are the players on ice while moving so fast, given time to figure out who they are about to hit? Should super stars have a free pass and just havea clear path to the goalie? Or what if the super star initiates the contact and cleanly checks another super star, is the inititiate of the contact not going to be challenged?

Sometimes that happens, which is why you'll see in inadvertent knee to a guy. That is a reactive play, and it happens. That's human nature. Looking at the video, Orpik knew exactly who it was and had time to line him up. The pass was awful too, which didn't help. Your typical suicide pass as its known.

No player should have a clear path to net -well unless J-Blow is defending (Game 7 vs Colorado 2002. He was sweeping his stick like a blind man with a cane and just let Drury waltz right in) - but players play star players differently for sure.

If one star blows up another one, I don't think there is an issue. Two studs went after each other, which is an even playing field.

This code has too many holes. I understand that a team should protect their own.
We used to have Lappy on our team. He was the most annoying player ever and dropped the gloves. He was a fighter and was a willing combatant. Oprik is not a fighter, he plays a fast hard game. Brown is another example. To us he is a super star, but to othe teams he may not be. So when he lays out a clean check, is he expected to fight.

The code has been the code for decades. Nothing has really changed in it in regards to stars - you touch ours, and you're fair game to get decleated and vice versa.

I don't consider Brown a superstar, I consider him a popular player. He is a decent player but he isn't remotely in the top 50 NHLers. He's popular because he hits.

And yes, now and again Brown does need to fight. Not every time, that's just dumb and unwarranted in lots of cases, but he NEVER drops them. That is also a problem because you develop a rep of a guy who will hit someone and hide behind someone else. It also keeps the opposition on their heels - will he fight? Will he not? What's he going to do? Right now we know exactly what Brown will do every time - hit and hide.

Brown engages, elicits responses because of the way he plays and then skates off. I don't like that part of his game one bit, it's bush league.

And that brings up another point. Who's detention of super star do you use? A team like the Panthers, are pretty much a scrub team. Do the Panthers or for that matter any team come out with am untouchable list?
I just think that Thorton's thinking was skewed. If Oprik did not want to fight, why not challenge someone on the Pens that is willing.

My definition of superstar isn't really black and white. I would consider the best guy on the Panthers their superstar, so if he gets touched, the code applies.

He could be the 8th best player in LA, but to them, he is their cog. It's all relevant.

 

[pete6835]

This is a tough and emotional sport and if they ever try and limit hitting, we might as well start watching basketball, where every touch is a foul. As far as players that want to just score and not get hit or players like Orpik who just wants to hit (clean or dirty) without some retaliation, suck it up or practice your batting or free-throws.

 

[Kings4OT]

I don't think anyone is saying you cant hit a "superstar", but expect someone to step up. Anser the call and move on

 

[Psych3man]

Color guy on Hawks radio broadcasts, Troy Murray (solid two-way class-act player in his day), last week agreed almost verbatim with Puck--he said if Orpik had dropped the gloves originally, the Thornton incident would not have happened. He said Orpik would not stand up for his original hit by fighting, thus inflaming the situation. He said it is understood by all players that hard hits, even clean, on star players will be responded to--thus, a fight settles the matter.
Nice call, Puck-ster.

 

[CaptHowdy00]

Color guy on Hawks radio broadcasts, Troy Murray (solid two-way class-act player in his day), last week agreed almost verbatim with Puck--he said if Orpik had dropped the gloves originally, the Thornton incident would not have happened. He said Orpik would not stand up for his original hit by fighting, thus inflaming the situation. He said it is understood by all players that hard hits, even clean, on star players will be responded to--thus, a fight settles the matter.
Nice call, Puck-ster.

But see that is crux of the problem. Superstars are held in high regard and are off limits, according to the code, from being touched. I argue that a clean check on a super star does not justify a retaliation fight on the checker. It would make more sence if someone checked the "offending" player with a clean pop to make their point.
Now if the bit is illegal or ends with the super star being injured, than I understand dropping the gloves.

And by not fighting it isn't Oprik's fault as to the way Thornton reacted. It is up to the Bruins to decide whether or not they are angry.

 

[Deader2818]

heres an idea. Don't like that Orpik laid out a clean big hit? Go back and lay him out with some big clean hits.

Im really just ready for fighting to be taken out of the game. You should be required to fight just because you play physical and throw checks.

 

[pete6835]

Again, it's WHO he hit, not that it was clean or dirty.

 

[Deader2818]

It doesnt matter. You shouldn't be forced to fight if you aren't a fighter.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Again, it's WHO he hit, not that it was clean or dirty.

Yeah, I'm not understanding why this concept isn't getting through. This isn't about the legality of the check at all.

Orpik's hit was stunning, in the sense that it was a classic hockey, clean body check. I loved it. I didn't want to see Eriksson get hurt, but it's a violent game and things happen. This isn't chess. Hopefully he recovers sooner rather than later.

But the fact is he drilled a star, and in The Code it's understood that is off limits. If it's deemed accidental, there will be some words and pushing and shoving, maybe even a fight, but that's about it. If it's deliberate, like Orpik's hit was, you're going to get confronted and you need to drop the gloves. Orpik did not, and skated away because let's face it, he was going to get his ass handed to him by Thornton. It was actually a very cowardly act.

Orpik fired the first shot, and at that moment he essentially told the Bruins he doesn't care who he hits and will go after anyone. Which is fine, but he also needs to know that he just put a target on his own back and will need to be held accountable for that. He did not want to be, even when he was given the opportunity to (Thornton challenging him and him skating off) and here we are.

The code is very Bible belt - do unto others as they have done unto you - and has been in the game and enforced since almost its inception. In 2013, it's no different.

Orpik concussed one of their players and then refused to go through the NHL's in-game "legal system", so Thornton went vigilante on him and delivered justice himself.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

heres an idea. Don't like that Orpik laid out a clean big hit? Go back and lay him out with some big clean hits.

That is one of the first acts of retribution actually, and I''m sure Thornton tried. But it ain't that easy to line up an NHL player and run him through the boards.

I don't even know if Thornton was on the ice when Orpik was after that hit, the situation may not have dictated it and no matter how honored the Code is, your team's welfare comes first and foremost. If that means you lose an opportunity to pay someone back because it may cost the team a win, looks like you're assed out and have to wait for another time. The score plays a role, all kinds of factors need to be taken into consideration.

Im really just ready for fighting to be taken out of the game. You should be required to fight just because you play physical and throw checks.

You take fighting out of the game and you will see losers like Torres, Laperriere and Tootoo (when he is in the NHL) go completely gonzo knowing no one will come after them.

And when they do, they know that player will be kicked out of the game- what if Torres laid a hit like he did on Stoll and it wasn't penalized, Kopitar of all people happened to be out there and confronted him and then got tossed for it but Torres stayed in? Horrible idea dude.

I don't like seeing guys convulsing on the ice any more than anyone else, but I'm very old school in terms of playing and always have, and still play even at my old ass age, hard but clean. You cross that line, it's on.

Thornton is that kind of guy and honestly it's refreshing. I don't like what he did to Orpik but overall he plays like that.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

It doesnt matter. You shouldn't be forced to fight if you aren't a fighter.

Well then you better not be laying out people you shouldn't be laying out.

Sorry buddy, but unfortunately that's not the way the NHL works. There's in game politics and this is one of them.

 

[pete6835]

The perfect example was Gretzky and McSorley. Marty would almost go after a player that looked at Wayne wrong. lol

 

[CaptHowdy00]

I don't think fighting should be taken out of the game. It has it's place. I also think that if you are not fighter, but make an illegal hit on the other team's player you should have your but handed to you.
By the same token if the play is clean, than there should be no envolvement in a fight. If the team of the player being legy checked, is hot to fight then call out the other teams fighter. I believe that Oprik is pretty important to the Pens. So if Thornton, does to after him, than based on what a lot of people are saying on here, Thornton should have his butt handed to him for going after Oprik. This is a slippery slope, with retaliations going back and forth.
So the other question is this. When the next time Thornton is on the ice against the Pens, is it Oprik that should go after him or someone else from the Pens.

 

[Deader2818]

Im really laughing at the idea that star players should never, ever be touched. If you dont want to get hit, don't fucking play hockey.

 

[Kings4OT]

Nobody has said they shouldn't be touched, but there is a difference between a check and crushing someone. I suppose this conversation is going in circles, just watch a few hockey games and you will understand a bit better.

 

[pete6835]

lol

 

[Deader2818]

yep, apparently ive never watched hockey before.

 

[pete6835]

Watching and knowing what you are talking about is two different things.